(02-22-2023, 02:42 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-22-2023, 01:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I see lots and lots of this analysis flying around.
Might be correct in the end, might not.
Both Lloyd and Walker may turn out great at the roles envisioned for them despite some middling play in their rookie campaigns.
It could also turn out to be true that they were miscast as you suggest.
Meaning the scouting done, combined with the coordinator's intent, were either misaligned or both were bad.
When you combine this with this defense also miscasting Williams as a slot defender, there is a bit of a trend developing.
Personally - I think that leaving Williams inside as long as they did was far more egregious than anything they did or didn't do with Lloyd and Walker. In fact - moving him outside sooner would have likely HELPED Walker quite a bit and even Lloyd to a lesser degree.
I'm 100% patient enough to see what this staff has learned from these situations to wait and see how they address them in 2023.
And I'm not gonna trip if Walker is still getting plenty of edge snaps in September. It would be great if he grows into the role.
I do think he'd be great playing 4-3 DE on early downs and moving inside on 3rd and long, but I do think still believe he's raw and malleable and we don't play much straight up 4-3 unless that is part of the staff's 2nd year adjustment.
The thing I'm really not sure about - is just sticking him at 3-4 end/5-tech and calling it a day. Don't think that's getting the most out of him. And that seems to be what many are asking this staff to do with him.
It's not a direct comparison but JJ Watt had 5.5 sacks his rookie year. Patrick Peterson and Von Miller both outplayed him in their rookie years. Then Watt went on a monster tear when he put it all together. This might be Walker in 2023.
Walker was so close so many times this past year. His ability against the run is already the best in the class but when he starts finishing those pressures, I think you'll see the guy we all hoped.
I also mentioned this in another thread but Pederson gives me so much hope. I'm not sure who the last coach was that actually made the players better (Coughlin?) but Pederson will actually teach these guys and hire a staff full of teachers.
I think Walker just needs to learn another pass rush move or two to combine with his bull rush. His natural size and strength is CLEARLY evident. He just needs to build those moves. The other thing I hope coaches are telling him this off season as well. Do not be afraid to attack the QB if you're around him in the pocket.
I think he had one or two roughing the passer calls and they were critical calls against him but he can't play gun shy out there. I would rather have a guy like him at his size more trigger happy than gun shy. Good example of this is Nick Bosa. I watched him get flagged for roughing Geno Smith on one play and he responded by getting right back after him and put his [BLEEP] in the ground like you're supposed to do.
That's what I want to see out of him in year two. You're going to make mistakes. [BLEEP] happens. Just don't let it linger and change your entire approach for the rest of the game. Shake that [BLEEP] off and get after it.
(02-22-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of the shots being taken at Travon Walker should honestly be directed at Baalke and Caldwell. Same with Lloyd. Again, the glaring point that seems to get glossed over by all of these media outlets is that we selected two players in the first round last year and played them completely out of position.
Walker should have been playing inside with his hands down in the dirt more often than not. He did have a few nice plays here and there in coverage though. So, it goes to show you that he does indeed have range and good athleticism for his size. Lloyd should have been playing outside all year long on one side of the football field like he primarily did at Utah.
We saw him get crucified all year for offenses getting away with playing criss cross applesauce on him. Not his fault entirely. He was out of position.
I would also say it gets glossed over that Caldwell switching guys around helped in a mighty way all the way to the playoffs.
Tons of guys get switched at the pro level. Hines Ward, Randle El, Thomas Davis, Lonnie Marts was a safety at Tulane, Kelce was a QB, Edelman was a QB, Kordell Stewart, Zach Miller, JJ Watt, Devin Hester, Josh Cribbs, Patterson, the list goes on.
Walker will just flat out have to Buck-Up. Get in the gym and work during practice. And sometimes the switch just don’t work out like Matt Jones. But it ain’t like the coaches will let him go back, that’s where they want him.
I just remember Allen trying to cover down the field. That didn’t look good. Coach Caldwell needs to tighten up in season 2.
(02-25-2023, 05:08 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I just remember Allen trying to cover down the field. That didn’t look good. Coach Caldwell needs to tighten up in season 2.
He was actually good in coverage. OLBs have to do that sometimes.
Here's some perspective for you:
Josh Allen - 9 catches allowed on 17 targets - 52% completion rate allowed
Rayshawn Jenkins - 39 catches allowed on 55 targets - 70% completion rate allowed
(02-26-2023, 06:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2023, 05:08 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I just remember Allen trying to cover down the field. That didn’t look good. Coach Caldwell needs to tighten up in season 2.
He was actually good in coverage. OLBs have to do that sometimes.
Here's some perspective for you:
Josh Allen - 9 catches allowed on 17 targets - 52% completion rate allowed
Rayshawn Jenkins - 39 catches allowed on 55 targets - 70% completion rate allowed
And was in coverage when he scored the winning td against the titans.
(02-26-2023, 06:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2023, 05:08 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I just remember Allen trying to cover down the field. That didn’t look good. Coach Caldwell needs to tighten up in season 2.
He was actually good in coverage. OLBs have to do that sometimes.
Here's some perspective for you:
Josh Allen - 9 catches allowed on 17 targets - 52% completion rate allowed
Rayshawn Jenkins - 39 catches allowed on 55 targets - 70% completion rate allowed
I'm pretty sure most of those were on simulated pressures. Sometimes you have to do that do odd things, like that to keep other teams guessing.
If good QB's/OC's know exactly what 1 or 2 defensive players are going to do every play, it can easier to game plan against.
I mean Allen was in coverage, like 2 plays a game? That isn't that much.
I think travon suprises this year.
Second year time to step up, i think he can figure some things out.
I didnt see any quit in him.
One item that should be noted, which I'm not certain anyone addressed in the responses (since i didn't read through all of them) is Travon was not supposed to be as good as Hutch in year 1. This was definitely a pick based on potential.
He has a lot to live up too for sure.Obviously ridiculous to write him off already.But will say, needs to show some real improvement in some areas.Seems like a hard working dude so know will put in the work and hopefully that translates to the field.
(02-27-2023, 03:51 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-26-2023, 06:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He was actually good in coverage. OLBs have to do that sometimes.
Here's some perspective for you:
Josh Allen - 9 catches allowed on 17 targets - 52% completion rate allowed
Rayshawn Jenkins - 39 catches allowed on 55 targets - 70% completion rate allowed
I'm pretty sure most of those were on simulated pressures. Sometimes you have to do that do odd things, like that to keep other teams guessing.
If good QB's/OC's know exactly what 1 or 2 defensive players are going to do every play, it can easier to game plan against.
I mean Allen was in coverage, like 2 plays a game? That isn't that much.
Yes, for sure, some of those were "disguises." And some were in direct response to the formation that appeared in front of them and a need to cover all the backs, receivers, and ends.
Either way - it didn't happen much - and when it did he was actually quite good at it save one big play given up for a TD. But it was far from some ugly trend in our defense that deserves any serious consternation IMO.
(03-07-2023, 09:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/.amp/news/ne...-nfl-draft
Good read. Fair points.
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Honestly this makes me feel better about the pick. This is the same guy that said Lawrence had a 90% chance to be a bust, and doubled down on that fact after Urban was fired while blaming Trevor for it. He's got some pretty awful takes floating around.
(03-07-2023, 11:57 PM)empty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2023, 09:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/.amp/news/ne...-nfl-draft
Good read. Fair points.
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Honestly this makes me feel better about the pick. This is the same guy that said Lawrence had a 90% chance to be a bust, and doubled down on that fact after Urban was fired while blaming Trevor for it. He's got some pretty awful takes floating around.
He is a former Jets scout. Wouldn't surprise me if he had that take on Lawrence considering how awful they were with Zach Wilson. I still think his assessment on Walker is spot on though. I think he's right about Nolan Smith as well.
(03-08-2023, 08:31 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2023, 11:57 PM)empty Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly this makes me feel better about the pick. This is the same guy that said Lawrence had a 90% chance to be a bust, and doubled down on that fact after Urban was fired while blaming Trevor for it. He's got some pretty awful takes floating around.
He is a former Jets scout. Wouldn't surprise me if he had that take on Lawrence considering how awful they were with Zach Wilson. I still think his assessment on Walker is spot on though. I think he's right about Nolan Smith as well.
Gene Smith was a former NFL scout, too, do you trust his assessments?
Just because you know someone, you might be able to get your foot in the door. If you stink out loud at the job though, you end up in the blogosphere. Remind me who the Jest have ever hit on?
(03-08-2023, 09:12 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2023, 08:31 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]He is a former Jets scout. Wouldn't surprise me if he had that take on Lawrence considering how awful they were with Zach Wilson. I still think his assessment on Walker is spot on though. I think he's right about Nolan Smith as well.
Gene Smith was a former NFL scout, too, do you trust his assessments?
Just because you know someone, you might be able to get your foot in the door. If you stink out loud at the job though, you end up in the blogosphere. Remind me who the Jest have ever hit on?
You're getting too attached and overly emotional about an assessment I see.
Look, just pointing out the obvious when it came to Travon Walker as a rookie. His assessment, for better or worse, was pretty spot on about him coming out of college. Better run defender, raw pass rusher, plays better with his hands in the dirt instead of upright.
He was looking at maximizing his potential there already coming out of college by suggesting he should have been a 4 - 3 DT. That's it. No need to dig up the past, or say "Well he's missed 1,000 times on X, Y & Z". It's a dumb argument or point to throw out there.
People play the lottery everyday and never hit. People sometimes get lucky and win it multiple times. [BLEEP] happens. No need to get your panties in a bunch, Mikey.
But, for the record? Not sure when that guy was a scout for the Jets. Matter of fact, that's the first time I ever heard of him or seen an article written by him. I don't follow him. I caught that article in a tweet that he posted in regards to Tony Pauline's remarks on Nolan Smith.
Happy Hump Day!
Lots of different opinions out there on Travon's future.
I'm excited to see what happens.
One note on that scout's critique of Walker as a prospect:
He said he could bull rush tackles, but wasn't strong enough to push them back into the QB and affect the play.
Walker did exactly what that scout said he couldn't do on at least 4 occasions in his rookie season in the NFL.
It was impressive.
That said - he's got to get a counter move developed off of that power bull rush this year or his time on the outside will be diminishing. Fingers crossed. I think he can get some hand technique together and shed some blocks if he buckles down on it.
(03-08-2023, 09:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of different opinions out there on Travon's future.
I'm excited to see what happens.
One note on that scout's critique of Walker as a prospect:
He said he could bull rush tackles, but wasn't strong enough to push them back into the QB and affect the play.
Walker did exactly what that scout said he couldn't do on at least 4 occasions in his rookie season in the NFL.
It was impressive.
That said - he's got to get a counter move developed off of that power bull rush this year or his time on the outside will be diminishing. Fingers crossed. I think he can get some hand technique together and shed some blocks if he buckles down on it.
Agreed. Needs more pass rushing moves added onto his toolbelt this summer. He was drafted for upside. Patience was going to be needed from day one with him. He flashed plenty here and there. I am confident he gets better in 2023.
People acting like they weren’t mad when Allen kept getting burnt in mid deep coverage down the field. Stop faking. Lol I get it, he needs to cover sometimes to keep them honest.
(03-08-2023, 11:45 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]People acting like they weren’t mad when Allen kept getting burnt in mid deep coverage down the field. Stop faking. Lol I get it, he needs to cover sometimes to keep them honest.
The problem with you and others spewing this nonsense, is that it didn't actually happen.
The man took between 900-1000 snaps on defense.
He allowed 9 completions, and maybe 4 or 5 of those were as you are describing.
That's like, 0.5% of his snaps, man.
You got
mad at that???
That's on you, pal. Not Josh Allen.
(03-08-2023, 11:45 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]People acting like they weren’t mad when Allen kept getting burnt in mid deep coverage down the field. Stop faking. Lol I get it, he needs to cover sometimes to keep them honest.
That's on scheme and defensive play calling. Not the player. The only bad play I can recall of with Allen in coverage was against the Cowboys at home where he got beat by either Schultz or Pollard for a TD.
Again, though, your best pass rusher win rate percentage wise shouldn't be back there to begin with. Goes back to what a lot of us were harping on and questioning with Caldwell's personnel choices and schemes throughout the season.