Just my opinion…
Lloyd is a weakside linebacker
Walker is a defensive lineman
(06-05-2023, 08:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Caldwell paraphrased:
Devin Lloyd is an inside linebacker. Inside linebackers do blitz. We'd like to do more of that with him. But matching him up on an offensive lineman? We have other players for that.
https://www.jaguars.com/video/mike-caldw...ng-to-play
Yeah. I referenced this in the other thread about Travon Walker. I still think he's an off ball linebacker that should be on the weakside or strongside that primarily plays man-to-man on a TE or RB. I don't think he's a good fit inside. This was made evident after he was benched in favor of Muma and further concerning when they drafted Miller out of Florida back in April when there were other options available on the board to address bigger needs potentially, such as LG/RG, Nickel CB and DE.
So, not sure at this point. I think it's Caldwell's job to scheme him free. I understand he's not going to get into a one-on-one situation with an OT, however, that's where his job as a coach needs to be earned. You use the big guys up front like Fatukasi, Hamilton, Walker, Allen and RHH, etc. Those guys are your space eaters, your block engagers. He's supposed to be able to create stunts and free lanes for Lloyd to shoot those gaps.
I don't know man. I am still very much on the fence with Caldwell. I could see us getting into a lot of shootouts offensively this season, especially in games outside of the division and this defense is probably going to cost you an opportunity to run deeper into the play-offs. I wouldn't give Caldwell a year three if we get the same results in year two. Just my opinion.
I have mixed feelings about Caldwell too. We shall see.
(06-06-2023, 08:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2023, 08:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Caldwell paraphrased:
Devin Lloyd is an inside linebacker. Inside linebackers do blitz. We'd like to do more of that with him. But matching him up on an offensive lineman? We have other players for that.
https://www.jaguars.com/video/mike-caldw...ng-to-play
Yeah. I referenced this in the other thread about Travon Walker. I still think he's an off ball linebacker that should be on the weakside or strongside that primarily plays man-to-man on a TE or RB. I don't think he's a good fit inside. This was made evident after he was benched in favor of Muma and further concerning when they drafted Miller out of Florida back in April when there were other options available on the board to address bigger needs potentially, such as LG/RG, Nickel CB and DE.
So, not sure at this point. I think it's Caldwell's job to scheme him free. I understand he's not going to get into a one-on-one situation with an OT, however, that's where his job as a coach needs to be earned. You use the big guys up front like Fatukasi, Hamilton, Walker, Allen and RHH, etc. Those guys are your space eaters, your block engagers. He's supposed to be able to create stunts and free lanes for Lloyd to shoot those gaps.
I don't know man. I am still very much on the fence with Caldwell. I could see us getting into a lot of shootouts offensively this season, especially in games outside of the division and this defense is probably going to cost you an opportunity to run deeper into the play-offs. I wouldn't give Caldwell a year three if we get the same results in year two. Just my opinion.
I agree. Lloyd is Myles Jack 2.0. Super athlete, but maybe not that instinctual (yet). Like Jack, he can flourish at weakside, but the dodo defensive coordinator is stuck on playing him in the middle for some reason.
Caldwell, to me, is a more aggressive Todd Wash -- in over his head, slow to adapt, and not good at utilizing players' strengths. But, unlike Wash, he will bring the heat at times and not be content to sit back and get eaten alive slowly.
I find it curious that so many folks have Devin Lloyd and Travon Walker completely figured out and pinned down after one season.
Are these kids allowed to get better before we assign them new positions, or nah?
(06-06-2023, 01:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I find it curious that so many folks have Devin Lloyd and Travon Walker completely figured out and pinned down after one season.
Are these kids allowed to get better before we assign them new positions, or nah?
They'll get a chance, respectively, in year two. No doubt about it. They already committed to that path with them last year so I don't seem them changing it. I just hope we don't get stagnant results, because, if we're not seeing much improvement from these two guys by week ten? Who are we blaming here?
Is it the players? For not catching on? Is it Caldwell? For playing them out of position to begin with? Is it Baalke? For drafting them to begin with? I just worry about the short window we have here. We won't be able to keep this unit intact for year three and year four. We only lost three players in the off season, a starter in Taylor and a rotational player or two in Key and Smoot.
What happens after 2023? That's my concern with a pair of 1st RD selections still being pigeonholed into roles they don't seem to thrive in.
(06-06-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (06-06-2023, 01:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I find it curious that so many folks have Devin Lloyd and Travon Walker completely figured out and pinned down after one season.
Are these kids allowed to get better before we assign them new positions, or nah?
They'll get a chance, respectively, in year two. No doubt about it. They already committed to that path with them last year so I don't seem them changing it. I just hope we don't get stagnant results, because, if we're not seeing much improvement from these two guys by week ten? Who are we blaming here?
Is it the players? For not catching on? Is it Caldwell? For playing them out of position to begin with? Is it Baalke? For drafting them to begin with? I just worry about the short window we have here. We won't be able to keep this unit intact for year three and year four. We only lost three players in the off season, a starter in Taylor and a rotational player or two in Key and Smoot.
What happens after 2023? That's my concern with a pair of 1st RD selections still being pigeonholed into roles they don't seem to thrive in.
Right - it is this assumption that they are being played out of position that I'm talking about.
Is it not possible that the positions envisioned for them by these professional football coaches and scouts may indeed turn out to be more accurate than the assumptions of us fans?
I just find it very strange that so many fans have their minds so made up on this.
I understand the traits and struggles of each player that make us want to project them elsewhere, but this notion of knowing exactly what a player is after one season always seems like jumping the shark to me. Especially when said player(s) came in after having been utilized as Swiss army knives in college.
(06-06-2023, 02:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-06-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]They'll get a chance, respectively, in year two. No doubt about it. They already committed to that path with them last year so I don't seem them changing it. I just hope we don't get stagnant results, because, if we're not seeing much improvement from these two guys by week ten? Who are we blaming here?
Is it the players? For not catching on? Is it Caldwell? For playing them out of position to begin with? Is it Baalke? For drafting them to begin with? I just worry about the short window we have here. We won't be able to keep this unit intact for year three and year four. We only lost three players in the off season, a starter in Taylor and a rotational player or two in Key and Smoot.
What happens after 2023? That's my concern with a pair of 1st RD selections still being pigeonholed into roles they don't seem to thrive in.
Right - it is this assumption that they are being played out of position that I'm talking about.
Is it not possible that the positions envisioned for them by these professional football coaches and scouts may indeed turn out to be more accurate than the assumptions of us fans?
I just find it very strange that so many fans have their minds so made up on this.
I understand the traits and struggles of each player that make us want to project them elsewhere, but this notion of knowing exactly what a player is after one season always seems like jumping the shark to me. Especially when said player(s) came in after having been utilized as Swiss army knives in college.
I'll give it until week 10.
![[Image: OGC.5b05398daac2257be5fad10e15d01bbf?pid...X7FDaa4%3d]](https://www.bing.com/th/id/OGC.5b05398daac2257be5fad10e15d01bbf?pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia1.tenor.com%2fimages%2f5b05398daac2257be5fad10e15d01bbf%2ftenor.gif%3fitemid%3d4982423&ehk=PENJxns%2fyc8v2Sbye9Y6GeUWz3Mos5GsDzz2X7FDaa4%3d)
(06-06-2023, 01:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I find it curious that so many folks have Devin Lloyd and Travon Walker completely figured out and pinned down after one season.
Are these kids allowed to get better before we assign them new positions, or nah?
microwave society. instant results or else.
(06-06-2023, 02:46 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (06-06-2023, 02:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Right - it is this assumption that they are being played out of position that I'm talking about.
Is it not possible that the positions envisioned for them by these professional football coaches and scouts may indeed turn out to be more accurate than the assumptions of us fans?
I just find it very strange that so many fans have their minds so made up on this.
I understand the traits and struggles of each player that make us want to project them elsewhere, but this notion of knowing exactly what a player is after one season always seems like jumping the shark to me. Especially when said player(s) came in after having been utilized as Swiss army knives in college.
I'll give it until week 10.
LOL
I'll take it!
He is a playmaker who will improve for the next few years. A great athlete who loves to compete and produce. Very smart guy who has the desire to be great. I can’t wait to watch this young man develop his skills on the gridiron.
(06-06-2023, 02:38 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-06-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]They'll get a chance, respectively, in year two. No doubt about it. They already committed to that path with them last year so I don't seem them changing it. I just hope we don't get stagnant results, because, if we're not seeing much improvement from these two guys by week ten? Who are we blaming here?
Is it the players? For not catching on? Is it Caldwell? For playing them out of position to begin with? Is it Baalke? For drafting them to begin with? I just worry about the short window we have here. We won't be able to keep this unit intact for year three and year four. We only lost three players in the off season, a starter in Taylor and a rotational player or two in Key and Smoot.
What happens after 2023? That's my concern with a pair of 1st RD selections still being pigeonholed into roles they don't seem to thrive in.
Right - it is this assumption that they are being played out of position that I'm talking about.
Is it not possible that the positions envisioned for them by these professional football coaches and scouts may indeed turn out to be more accurate than the assumptions of us fans?
I just find it very strange that so many fans have their minds so made up on this.
I understand the traits and struggles of each player that make us want to project them elsewhere, but this notion of knowing exactly what a player is after one season always seems like jumping the shark to me. Especially when said player(s) came in after having been utilized as Swiss army knives in college.
To back up this point, off-ball LBers have consistently struggled to start their careers in recent years. OCs have feasted on those short routes, especially over the middle of the field, and those are hell for young LBers to adjust to. Isaiah Simmons basically got benched for half a season after Shanahan set up plays to torch him in the opener. Basically the only exception to this has been Micah and he's just an outlier in every sense. Even the good (or perceived good) ones took time to get there. Tremaine Edmunds struggled until this past season. Roquan was OK but didn't really take off until he got to Balt. Devin White has been largely bad except for some splash plays and a great postseason run. It's just tough being an off-ball linebacker with the way offenses operate right now, so it will probably take some patience for Lloyd to really get his bearings and become the player he can be. Hopefully he makes some good strides this season.
I agree with Caldwell, Lloyd is a ILB. If we wanted a pass rusher we would of went a different direction in the draft. He can be affective in certain blitz packages though which makes him that more dangerous. I think we see a big jump for Lloyd this year in his first year with a full healthy training camp.
He sounds ready to rumble this season.
Sounds good, I just hope he doesn’t get abused in pass coverage this season.
I think running a 4-3 base would solve a lot of issues with our pass rush, it would also be helpful to get Lloyd/Foye/Muma all on the field at the same time.