(06-23-2023, 06:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2023, 05:56 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]My personal "predictions" for the teams offense this year is that it will be much more potent in the passing game, I expect Lawrence to bump his numbers up to the big boy leagues and throw 30+ TDs with the addition of a legitimate #1 WR in Ridley and having more experience in Doug's system.
My biggest concern currently is the O-line, I'm not sure what to think of it as it stands. I felt when the season ended, we needed to upgrade the interior.. but then Taylor left, Cam got suspended and now rather than bolstering the weak part of the line we had to spend a first round pick on a replacement for 1 of the 2 lost tackles.. Unless Harrison is an absolute stud, and Walker Little proves to be a guy I think the line ultimately got worse until we see what we got tho it's hard to say.
The term you are searching for here is "elite"
In another thread you lumped the terms "generational, elite, and franchise QB" together.
These are three distinct and different classifications of QBs.
The league may have as many as 10-12 "franchise QBs" in a given season. Guys that are playing well enough to get a team to the postseason if other areas on the roster don't hold them back too much. Not all are worthy of long term deals but they play well enough to make it hard to move on from them without feeling certain about landing an upgrade.
Elite QBs are usually 3-6 guys each season. Big time production, and easily worthy of a major contract.
"Generational" QBs are guys that only come around 2 or 3 times in a generation.
Lots of folks get confused about this label and it's association with TL because he was labeled a Generational prospect. We won't know if he's a generational QB for quite some time.
Brady, Mahomes and maaayyyybe Rodgers are the only guys catching that term from recent "generations."
For now.
You are calling for Lawrence to be a top 5 quarterback based on that TD number you claim to expect.
That would make him "elite." Not a member of the condescending "big boy leagues."
Okay so I'm not going to respond to what is wrong with everything you just said, but I will clarify what I meant in an easier to understand way. I BELIEVE that Trevor will continue to improve, and we will see more of the guy we saw in the second half of last season for the majority of the upcoming season.. And if that comes to pass, he will likely have the statistics to go along with what I perceived to be mostly elite play throughout that time frame last season. And the addition of Ridley just gives me more reason to be hopeful in that prediction.
And when I say "Big Boy Leagues" I do not mean simply "an NFL QB" I mean one of the top tier QBs, ala Elite.. or at worst borderline elite.
It’s easy to be ‘right’ when parameters are nebulous.
(06-23-2023, 09:28 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2023, 06:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The term you are searching for here is "elite"
In another thread you lumped the terms "generational, elite, and franchise QB" together.
These are three distinct and different classifications of QBs.
The league may have as many as 10-12 "franchise QBs" in a given season. Guys that are playing well enough to get a team to the postseason if other areas on the roster don't hold them back too much. Not all are worthy of long term deals but they play well enough to make it hard to move on from them without feeling certain about landing an upgrade.
Elite QBs are usually 3-6 guys each season. Big time production, and easily worthy of a major contract.
"Generational" QBs are guys that only come around 2 or 3 times in a generation.
Lots of folks get confused about this label and it's association with TL because he was labeled a Generational prospect. We won't know if he's a generational QB for quite some time.
Brady, Mahomes and maaayyyybe Rodgers are the only guys catching that term from recent "generations."
For now.
You are calling for Lawrence to be a top 5 quarterback based on that TD number you claim to expect.
That would make him "elite." Not a member of the condescending "big boy leagues."
Okay so I'm not going to respond to what is wrong with everything you just said, but I will clarify what I meant in an easier to understand way. I BELIEVE that Trevor will continue to improve, and we will see more of the guy we saw in the second half of last season for the majority of the upcoming season.. And if that comes to pass, he will likely have the statistics to go along with what I perceived to be mostly elite play throughout that time frame last season. And the addition of Ridley just gives me more reason to be hopeful in that prediction.
And when I say "Big Boy Leagues" I do not mean simply "an NFL QB" I mean one of the top tier QBs, ala Elite.. or at worst borderline elite.
Right, you made up a stupid condescending term for what the rest of the football universe has already labeled as "elite."
Just one more step along your special little path of ignorance on all things quarterback related.
(06-20-2023, 10:21 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (06-18-2023, 01:06 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]In regard to #5 (emphasis added), I think you mis-read my message. I said that Cam would go to left tackle and Little would go to left guard. I don't see Cam playing anywhere other than left tackle.
Apologies, Duke.
Let me rephrase.
Why does Little go to LG?
I know he got some snaps there in mini camp.
If the scouting reports regarding Harrison are true, Harrison won't have the strength to play G effectively.
I guess given the lack of depth at the position, Little might be the default choice at LG of the 3 or 4 Ts on the roster. But what about Wells, who has returned from Tampa?
To me that's a bit of a dilemma. I don't want to risk moving a quality starter inside if it could be avoided, but Wells is a step down athletically from all of our other 3 Ts. Could he get out effectively on a screen-assuming he makes the team?
I think you largely summed up my position with the word "default". If we assumed a tackle was to move to left guard, who would be most likely?
Wells? I think a big reason to move a tackle to guard is so that you have your five best linemen on the field. That's not Wells. I'm not overly impressed with Wells. I think he's an ok backup, but not much more.
Robinson? I've already stated that I didn't think he will be moved to guard. Besides his statement against such a move, you also factor that he's been in the league for six years and has only played left tackle. I think the Jaguars like Robinson at left tackle better than most fans.
Harrison? He's a rookie. I think they want him to focus on right tackle. I don't think they are going to want to take extensive time away from him at right tackle to practice at left guard and I don't see them moving him to left guard without doing so. Additionally, if you move Harrison to left guard, I assume that means Little to right tackle and Robinson re-inserted at left tackle. You're making changes to three spots on the line if you do that. That's very disruptive to continuity. I don't see the Jaguars playing musical chairs mid-season.
Little is the most likely candidate largely by default. The coaches have said that he is capable of playing guard. He has practiced there. If they want Robinson, Harrison and Little all on the field at the same time, I think Little is the one most likely to switch positions.
(06-16-2023, 11:03 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]This is the time of year many football fans like me hate. There's no football happening. Mini camps are over. Training camps are about a month away from opening.
Aside from the occasional signing of a vet looking to catch on with a team before training camp, or the occasional arrest/suspension of a player, there is typically very little football related news to satisfy the football withdrawal most of us die hard football fans are enduring.
Basically the only things to mitigate the cravings during this time are internet clips, the annual preseason football mags, and message boards like this one.
Understanding this is a beyond herculean task akin to bailing out the Titanic with a coffee mug, here is one of my attempts to take a little of the sting of football withdrawal by trying to stimulate discussion.
The following is a questionnaire/survey that raises issues and questions going into training camp. As always, your thoughts and analysis are welcome.
1. Quarterback-Under the guidance of Doug Pederson, Trevor Lawrence made considerable strides from his rookie year struggle, more than doubling his TDs and reducing his INTs by half, and tripling the team's win total from 3 in his rookie year to 9 wins, a divisional title a win in the playoffs and divisional round appearance. For the first time since his college days, he will be in the same offense in back to back years. Question: How much improvement, if any, do you see from Trevor Lawrence this year?
2. Running back-Travis Etienne rebounded from a lis franc injury that kept him sidelined the entire 2021 season to rush for over 1000 yards last year, once he took over the starting RB duties from James Robinson, who was traded away to the Jets. Robinson was replaced by JaMycal Hasty, who gave the team some decent reps last year, including a long TD run against the Colts. The Jaguars also drafted Ole Miss RB Snoop Connor last year. This year, Baalke and Pederson added RB D' Ernest Johnson, a free agent who played in a talented and crowded Cleveland backfield, and 3rd round draft pick Tank Bigsby out of Auburn.
Question: How will the RB postion shake itself out? How many do you expect them to keep? Who is/are the odd man/men out?
Sub question: The Jaguars final draft pick-whose name escapes me at the moment (apologies to him)-is envisioned as a FB. Does he make the final 53 man roster?
3. Wide Receiver: Despite a ton of criticism for the signings of Zay Jones and Christian Kirk,both players were instrumental in Trevor Lawrence's ascent to near elite status, silencing those critics. (Full disclosure: I had my share of doubts about the signings. I heartily and gladly eat crow. Midway through last year, Baalke and Pederson traded for Falcons' WR Calvin Ridley, who was serving a year long suspension for violating the league's policy on gambling. This was following a half year sabbatical he took for reported mental health issues. By all accounts, Ridley has looked like his pre suspension self in mincamps and OTAs. But it's rare that a player can be out for a year or more, return to action and play at or near the level he played pre absence. (Hall of Fame RB John Riggins is the most notable example the leaps to mind).
Question: What do you expect from the receiving corps as a whole this year and from Ridley in particular?
Subquestion: Assuming Ridley can return to his pre injury & suspension form, how does the trio of Ridley, Kirk and Jones compare to other notable receiver groups in team history, like the 1996 group (Jimmy Smith, Keenan McCardell, Andre Rison/Willie Jackson) or 2017 (Marquise Lee, Allen Robinson, Allen Hurns).
4. Tight End: One of last year's most pleasant surprises was the play of Evan Engram, who went from a bust with the New York Giants to an integral weapon in the Jaguars attack last year. Some may argue that Engram gave the Jaguars the best receiving threat at TE in team history, ahead of Marcedes Lewis, Kyle Brady, et al. He has been absent from OTAs and minicamps trying to get a new contract. The team has applied the franchise tag. This aside, there are some changes, most relevant is the addition of Strange from Penn State.
Question: Do you think we re-sign Engram to a new long term deal by the start of training camp, or will Engram play the whole year under the tag?
5. Offensive line- Pederson' and Rauscher's blocking schemes led to a very good year for the offensive line last year. Cam Robinson had his best year at LT since 2017. After being out most of his last two years of college due to injury and the Covid-19 and a transitional rookie year, Walker Little played well at RT (and LT when Cam Robinson was injured late in the season). Scherff had a good year by Jaguars G standards, but he was hampered by injuries last year. Once again, Tyler Shatley came to the rescue due to injury and provided some good snaps. Then rookie Luke Fortner manned the C position decently. Since then, we learned before the draft that Robinson is facing a possible six game suspension for violating the league's steroid policy. A suspension would leave Walker Little continuing at LT, rookie Anton Harrison moving in at RT. At least that's how it worked out during OTAs.
Question: How does the OL shake out in Cam Robinson's absence? Does Little continue at LT or does he return to the right? Does Harrison have the strength to be successful at RT...or possibly to shift inside to LG should Shatley and/or the unproven Blake Hance falter? What about when Cam Robinson returns?
How much improvement do I see from Lawrence in 2023? I think he will win 10 or more games. I think he will throw 4 to 6 more TDs with the addition of Ridley, Strange, and Washington. His sacks should stay around the same, along with his completion percentage. Yards per attempt should also stay the same. His interceptions should be around 10 or less. I also think he will get more MVP votes than last year.
How will RB shake out and who is the odd man out? I think they keep 4. Etienne put up 1431 total yards in his first season as the starter. Bigsby will get plenty of action and I think he is going to be fun to watch. Hasty will be the RB3 and they will keep Johnson. Conner and Ollison will be the odd men out.
What do I expect from Ridley? I think he will have something around 55 receptions 950 yards and 4 or 5 TDs in his first season back with a new team. He should fit in nice with Kirk, Jones, and Engram.
Do I think the Jaguars will sign Engram to a long term deal? They have to.
How does the OL shake out? Right now Little is listed as the Jaguars starting RT. Robinson is listed as the starting LT and Harrison is listed as the backup LT. I think that is how it will end up. If anyone wants to know why I think that…I just do. I’ve went back and forth for a while and I’m exhausted and explaining. If they swap spots, whatever, but I think it shakes out with Little as the RT. If Harrison struggles at LT, I think he will have a longer leash depending on how he plays. There is still a chance Robinson could be the starting LT once he serves his suspension. Bartch is listed as the starting LG and Wells is the backup RT. Hodges is the 3rd RT.
I don’t think FB Derek Parrish will make the team, but he should sign to the practice squad and might get a call up here and there depending on who we play that week and what the game plan could be. He won’t sniff a snap on defense.
Does Harrison have the strength to play RT? I think he has the makeup to play LT. The question is does Little have the strength to play RT. I hope he does.
And no, I don’t think Harrison will play guard.
(06-24-2023, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2023, 09:28 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Okay so I'm not going to respond to what is wrong with everything you just said, but I will clarify what I meant in an easier to understand way. I BELIEVE that Trevor will continue to improve, and we will see more of the guy we saw in the second half of last season for the majority of the upcoming season.. And if that comes to pass, he will likely have the statistics to go along with what I perceived to be mostly elite play throughout that time frame last season. And the addition of Ridley just gives me more reason to be hopeful in that prediction.
And when I say "Big Boy Leagues" I do not mean simply "an NFL QB" I mean one of the top tier QBs, ala Elite.. or at worst borderline elite.
Right, you made up a stupid condescending term for what the rest of the football universe has already labeled as "elite."
Just one more step along your special little path of ignorance on all things quarterback related.
Why is it condescending? Do you think I'm being condescending towards Mahomes/Burrow/Allen when i'm essentially saying i'm hopeful he will be joining them statistically speaking?
I don't know why you seem to think I have an open hatrid for Trevor Lawrence, I say the same type of crap about other people/players all the time and you stay silent. But as soon as #16 is involved you get defensive like you're his grandmother or something.
Relax.
(06-24-2023, 03:33 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2023, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Right, you made up a stupid condescending term for what the rest of the football universe has already labeled as "elite."
Just one more step along your special little path of ignorance on all things quarterback related.
Why is it condescending? Do you think I'm being condescending towards Mahomes/Burrow/Allen when i'm essentially saying i'm hopeful he will be joining them statistically speaking?
I don't know why you seem to think I have an open hatrid for Trevor Lawrence, I say the same type of crap about other people/players all the time and you stay silent. But as soon as #16 is involved you get defensive like you're his grandmother or something.
Relax.
OK, cool.
Since it isn't condescending to call grown men at the top of their field "boys," then I'm sure you'll understand when I say I can't wait until your posting graduates from "[BLEEP] ing your diaper" to "potty training."
(06-24-2023, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2023, 09:28 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Okay so I'm not going to respond to what is wrong with everything you just said, but I will clarify what I meant in an easier to understand way. I BELIEVE that Trevor will continue to improve, and we will see more of the guy we saw in the second half of last season for the majority of the upcoming season.. And if that comes to pass, he will likely have the statistics to go along with what I perceived to be mostly elite play throughout that time frame last season. And the addition of Ridley just gives me more reason to be hopeful in that prediction.
And when I say "Big Boy Leagues" I do not mean simply "an NFL QB" I mean one of the top tier QBs, ala Elite.. or at worst borderline elite.
Right, you made up a stupid condescending term for what the rest of the football universe has already labeled as "elite."
Just one more step along your special little path of ignorance on all things quarterback related.
when you get paid by the keystroke you learn to stretch things out.
I need to find a gig like that.
(06-24-2023, 03:33 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2023, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Right, you made up a stupid condescending term for what the rest of the football universe has already labeled as "elite."
Just one more step along your special little path of ignorance on all things quarterback related.
Why is it condescending? Do you think I'm being condescending towards Mahomes/Burrow/Allen when i'm essentially saying i'm hopeful he will be joining them statistically speaking?
I don't know why you seem to think I have an open hatrid for Trevor Lawrence, I say the same type of crap about other people/players all the time and you stay silent. But as soon as #16 is involved you get defensive like you're his grandmother or something.
Relax.
you say you don't, but the choices of words you use give your biases away.
When was the last time you referred to Burrow, Mahomes, or Allen as "big boy league QBs"? You could have just said "on par with" those three, or "among the upper echelon of QB's" without it sounding like you wanted to dump on his past performances as less than "big boy" level. Words matter.
If I described a QB as Bortles-esque, what picture does that paint in your mind? A 35-TD season, or a QB who bounces passes off his RB's foot? I could say I meant in good spirits, but my choice of words clearly are going to lead my audience to a negative connotation.
(06-26-2023, 08:37 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2023, 03:33 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Why is it condescending? Do you think I'm being condescending towards Mahomes/Burrow/Allen when i'm essentially saying i'm hopeful he will be joining them statistically speaking?
I don't know why you seem to think I have an open hatrid for Trevor Lawrence, I say the same type of crap about other people/players all the time and you stay silent. But as soon as #16 is involved you get defensive like you're his grandmother or something.
Relax.
you say you don't, but the choices of words you use give your biases away.
When was the last time you referred to Burrow, Mahomes, or Allen as "big boy league QBs"? You could have just said "on par with" those three, or "among the upper echelon of QB's" without it sounding like you wanted to dump on his past performances as less than "big boy" level. Words matter.
If I described a QB as Bortles-esque, what picture does that paint in your mind? A 35-TD season, or a QB who bounces passes off his RB's foot? I could say I meant in good spirits, but my choice of words clearly are going to lead my audience to a negative connotation.
Well considering the post we're referring to was me indicating that I hope to see him join the "big boy leagues" statistically speaking, I was referring to said players. I don't think what I said was condenscending at all, Trevor has yet to be on any of those players levels yet in the NFL, what am I missing? Last year I was uninspired in our QB/Teams outlook for the season and got blasted for it, now i'm saying i'm hopeful and still being blasted.. kinda strange.
Also comparing somebody to Bortles would be insulting, nothing I said was insulting nor was intended to be. I said I'm hopeful he will join the other big time players at his position statistically. You guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing if i'm being honest.
(06-25-2023, 12:04 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2023, 03:33 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Why is it condescending? Do you think I'm being condescending towards Mahomes/Burrow/Allen when i'm essentially saying i'm hopeful he will be joining them statistically speaking?
I don't know why you seem to think I have an open hatrid for Trevor Lawrence, I say the same type of crap about other people/players all the time and you stay silent. But as soon as #16 is involved you get defensive like you're his grandmother or something.
Relax.
OK, cool.
Since it isn't condescending to call grown men at the top of their field "boys," then I'm sure you'll understand when I say I can't wait until your posting graduates from "[BLEEP] ing your diaper" to "potty training."
Are you alright? You seem unhinged over nothing, as usual.
What kind of questionnaire is this? Where do I fill in the blocks to indicate that I'm non-hispanic, non-binary, and go by the pronouns Xe and Xem
(06-26-2023, 10:23 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2023, 08:37 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]you say you don't, but the choices of words you use give your biases away.
When was the last time you referred to Burrow, Mahomes, or Allen as "big boy league QBs"? You could have just said "on par with" those three, or "among the upper echelon of QB's" without it sounding like you wanted to dump on his past performances as less than "big boy" level. Words matter.
If I described a QB as Bortles-esque, what picture does that paint in your mind? A 35-TD season, or a QB who bounces passes off his RB's foot? I could say I meant in good spirits, but my choice of words clearly are going to lead my audience to a negative connotation.
Well considering the post we're referring to was me indicating that I hope to see him join the "big boy leagues" statistically speaking, I was referring to said players. I don't think what I said was condenscending at all, Trevor has yet to be on any of those players levels yet in the NFL, what am I missing? Last year I was uninspired in our QB/Teams outlook for the season and got blasted for it, now i'm saying i'm hopeful and still being blasted.. kinda strange.
Also comparing somebody to Bortles would be insulting, nothing I said was insulting nor was intended to be. I said I'm hopeful he will join the other big time players at his position statistically. You guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing if i'm being honest.
(06-25-2023, 12:04 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]OK, cool.
Since it isn't condescending to call grown men at the top of their field "boys," then I'm sure you'll understand when I say I can't wait until your posting graduates from "[BLEEP] ing your diaper" to "potty training."
Are you alright? You seem unhinged over nothing, as usual.
Calmly educating the feeble-minded. Fully hinged, pal. Fully hinged.
(06-26-2023, 08:28 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2023, 10:23 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Well considering the post we're referring to was me indicating that I hope to see him join the "big boy leagues" statistically speaking, I was referring to said players. I don't think what I said was condenscending at all, Trevor has yet to be on any of those players levels yet in the NFL, what am I missing? Last year I was uninspired in our QB/Teams outlook for the season and got blasted for it, now i'm saying i'm hopeful and still being blasted.. kinda strange.
Also comparing somebody to Bortles would be insulting, nothing I said was insulting nor was intended to be. I said I'm hopeful he will join the other big time players at his position statistically. You guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing if i'm being honest.
Are you alright? You seem unhinged over nothing, as usual.
Calmly educating the feeble-minded. Fully hinged, pal. Fully hinged.
Nothing you ever say is educational, it's typically just an argument for the sake of it. Also what's wrong with Diapers? Didn't you recently start using depends?
(06-26-2023, 11:23 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2023, 08:28 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Calmly educating the feeble-minded. Fully hinged, pal. Fully hinged.
Nothing you ever say is educational, it's typically just an argument for the sake of it. Also what's wrong with Diapers? Didn't you recently start using depends?
If you weren't dumber than a bag of hammers you might pick up on a few things I'm laying down, but it would appear
there is simply no hope you will improve.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/DJaiI4huAoO5Pk2qm4/giphy.gif)
The only thing in diapers here is your infantile grasp of the English language, but I digress.
ON TOPIC:
You mentioned that the OL this year appears slightly worse than last year.
Is it that you don't have the confidence in Little that most fans have after watching him play well to end the year?
Is it that you see Harrison as a likely downgrade from J Taylor?
Is it that you think Bartch will either not be 100% or probably won't be much better than Shatley at LG?
Or - describe whatever combination/iteration of those things concerns you.