With Cam Robinson's suspension for violating the NFL's PED policy, he has endangered the large signing bonus he received when he signed his new deal after being franchised.
Assume Robinson loses his signing bonus and is cut.
That bonus money would return to our cap in one form or another.
How would you utilize this money?
Would you retain one of the other guys who are slated to become free agents next offseason? If so, assuming no major injury and no drop in performance, who would seek to resign and why?
Or perhaps you would allocate those funds to re-signing Trevor Lawrence. While he is on the 3rd year of a five year rookie deal, his 4th year would be the first year his contract could be re-done. Giving him a new deal now may be considerably cheaper than waiting until his 5th year to get a new deal.
I would use it towards a veteran pass rusher and then keep the rest on board for next year. Depending on Ridley's 2023 season, he may be the biggest priority to extend for the next few years for Lawrence's sake. I wouldn't worry just yet about Lawrence's contract. We need to see what happens with Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert first I think before we make any moves on his contract.
Let everything play out and let the chips fall where they may. For right now though, a veteran pass rusher would be on the top of my priority list and then taking a wait and see approach with Ridley.
I agree Ridley may be the teams top priority. However, I wouldn’t want to wait too long to extend Trevor. The less he accepts the more SB’s he will have the opportunity to win.
The following may very well be playing their final year with the Jags…
- Robinson
- Allen
- Engram
- Williams
- Griffin
Seems to be a very strong agreement on the board that pass rush and slot corner/nickel are the biggest areas of concern. Yet Baalke did little to address these.
(07-07-2023, 08:41 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree Ridley may be the teams top priority. However, I wouldn’t want to wait too long to extend Trevor. The less he accepts the more SB’s he will have the opportunity to win.
The following may very well be playing their final year with the Jags…
- Robinson
- Allen
- Engram
- Williams
- Griffin
Seems to be a very strong agreement on the board that pass rush and slot corner/nickel are the biggest areas of concern. Yet Baalke did little to address these.
Griffin is already gone. Robinson was gone and on borrowed time for awhile now. Engram may be expendable if Ridley turns out being the guy. You can only spread the football around to so many players out there. Strange being selected in the 3rd RD also does not bode well for Engram's long term future here.
Allen, for me personally, he would have to set the world on fire this year for me to care about keeping him beyond 2023. As that 2017 defense began to fall apart due to locker room cancer, ego and age. Allen failed miserably in stepping up to backfill the primary roles that guys like Ngakoue and Campbell played.
I know people like to throw the PFF grades at me and use that "Well, it's not all about sacks, etc". Okay, sure. Whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better at night. If Josh Allen was as good as people kept painting him out to be? We wouldn't have wasted a first round pick on Chaisson and we wouldn't have probably had to drop the number one overall pick on Travon Walker last year. Allen has been serviceable, but, not a consistent enough game breaking presence that opponents fear on a weekly basis.
Darious Williams is an interesting loss if it happens. He was used in the nickel last year and then eventually placed outside where he needed to be to begin with to succeed. Only hope is that Braswell out of Rutgers shines enough as a rookie to develop nice and easy in 2023 and he potentially sneaks into the starting line-up and quietly does his job well enough for nobody to notice.
I'll tell you another thing that people tend to forget about. Tyson Campbell. He's another guy we'll have to extend. The fact that his coverage ability has improved IN SPITE of lack luster pass rush and push up front tells me that HE SHOULD BE the guy you save your money for on defense to resign more than anybody else.
Typo Cal. Strange was a 2nd.
(07-07-2023, 09:14 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]Typo Cal. Strange was a 2nd.
Good call out. We kept trading back. For some reason I thought we fell out of RD2. Further adds to the argument though that Engram's probably not going to be here after 2023. Strange is going to play a big role offensively.
Use it to sign zach Wilson because he is 10x the player Lawrence is
(07-07-2023, 09:34 AM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Use it to sign zach Wilson because he is 10x the player Lawrence is
Hide your wives fellas!
I think there is another factor we haven't fully considered (at least I haven't) in determining the answer to this question.
I am referring to the Calvin Ridley trade.
Specifically, there is the provision in the trade where if Ridley is a starting WR, the Jaguars give the Falcons a 2nd round pick.
So if Ridley is a starter, and the team has a lot of success this year, not only does our first round pick end up at the bottom of the first round, but the team won't have a 2nd round pick.
I would imagine due to that and being up against the cap, the team might trade out of the first round. But the bottom line is barring another trade, the team won't have the full/normal allotment of draft picks.
I have to think the Jaguars would likely do something to offset that likely loss of talent.
I'd sign one of the veteran pass rushers and add a nickel-back either via free agency or trade.
(07-07-2023, 11:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is another factor we haven't fully considered (at least I haven't) in determining the answer to this question.
I am referring to the Calvin Ridley trade.
Specifically, there is the provision in the trade where if Ridley is a starting WR, the Jaguars give the Falcons a 2nd round pick.
So if Ridley is a starter, and the team has a lot of success this year, not only does our first round pick end up at the bottom of the first round, but the team won't have a 2nd round pick.
I would imagine due to that and being up against the cap, the team might trade out of the first round. But the bottom line is barring another trade, the team won't have the full/normal allotment of draft picks.
I have to think the Jaguars would likely do something to offset that likely loss of talent.
All the more reason I think Ridley becomes the primary point of focus in 2023 and going into 2024. We're going to want to lock him down for another three, four years more than likely. It's a combination of losing that draft pick + losing him that would be a total pisser for this front office. If you essentially have him for one year, and, it doesn't net you a Superbowl win? You need to resign him if his production is up there.
I think they could figure something out to gain some draft picks at some point. Trading down next year if they end up deep in the post season would make a lot of sense. Especially with a giant bubble looking to pop that's tied around the salary cap from the contracts that were signed in 2022.
Drafting Strange, Bigsby and Miller feel like early insurance picks now at TE, RB and ILB respectively. And for obvious reasons when you look at the roster and the talent there that's going to cost you a good chunk of your cap if they reup on guys like Engram, Oluokon and Etienne.
(07-07-2023, 11:59 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd sign one of the veteran pass rushers and add a nickel-back either via free agency or trade.
There are a few solid pass rushers still on the market, including Ngakoue and Clowney.
The problem is unless the Jaguars dump Robinson's signing bonus and contract early (before camp starts), they likely won't have the cap space to compete for one of those veteran guys.
(07-07-2023, 12:09 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2023, 11:59 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd sign one of the veteran pass rushers and add a nickel-back either via free agency or trade.
There are a few solid pass rushers still on the market, including Ngakoue and Clowney.
The problem is unless the Jaguars dump Robinson's signing bonus and contract early (before camp starts), they likely won't have the cap space to compete for one of those veteran guys.
Justin Houston is out there as well. I thought they had the cap space now to make it work. They have to tag Engram still though, correct?
(07-07-2023, 12:11 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2023, 12:09 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]There are a few solid pass rushers still on the market, including Ngakoue and Clowney.
The problem is unless the Jaguars dump Robinson's signing bonus and contract early (before camp starts), they likely won't have the cap space to compete for one of those veteran guys.
Justin Houston is out there as well. I thought they had the cap space now to make it work. They have to tag Engram still though, correct?
They tagged Engram for this year.
Perhaps they do have the cap room. I wasn't sure if they do ir not, not knowing the contract demands of the pass rushers still on the market. Their prices have to be suppressed to a large degree, but if a team gets desperate enough, they could get into a bidding war and pay more.
They still have to get Engram to either sign a deal in a downward trending TE market, or sign his tag and play on that this year. That in itself will influence liquid cash for the team as a long term deal may free up more short term cash.
I think that how this ^ plays out, combined with how healthy the team remains throughout camp/preseason, combined with general roster evaluation ( are we worse-off somewhere than coaches anticipated?) , + Cam's actual health and ability in August will all determine what happens with any roster spending.
They don't need to be in a hurry right now IMO, and they're probably better off letting the needs make themselves more plain and apparent via the process of camp.
Any money that can rollover to next year's cap is also worth saving considering the contracts coming rapidly down the pike at us. There is just no hurry to spend for this team right now, IMO.
(07-07-2023, 09:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2023, 08:41 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree Ridley may be the teams top priority. However, I wouldn’t want to wait too long to extend Trevor. The less he accepts the more SB’s he will have the opportunity to win.
The following may very well be playing their final year with the Jags…
- Robinson
- Allen
- Engram
- Williams
- Griffin
Seems to be a very strong agreement on the board that pass rush and slot corner/nickel are the biggest areas of concern. Yet Baalke did little to address these.
Griffin is already gone. Robinson was gone and on borrowed time for awhile now. Engram may be expendable if Ridley turns out being the guy. You can only spread the football around to so many players out there. Strange being selected in the 3rd RD also does not bode well for Engram's long term future here.
Allen, for me personally, he would have to set the world on fire this year for me to care about keeping him beyond 2023. As that 2017 defense began to fall apart due to locker room cancer, ego and age. Allen failed miserably in stepping up to backfill the primary roles that guys like Ngakoue and Campbell played.
I know people like to throw the PFF grades at me and use that "Well, it's not all about sacks, etc". Okay, sure. Whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better at night. If Josh Allen was as good as people kept painting him out to be? We wouldn't have wasted a first round pick on Chaisson and we wouldn't have probably had to drop the number one overall pick on Travon Walker last year. Allen has been serviceable, but, not a consistent enough game breaking presence that opponents fear on a weekly basis.
Darious Williams is an interesting loss if it happens. He was used in the nickel last year and then eventually placed outside where he needed to be to begin with to succeed. Only hope is that Braswell out of Rutgers shines enough as a rookie to develop nice and easy in 2023 and he potentially sneaks into the starting line-up and quietly does his job well enough for nobody to notice.
I'll tell you another thing that people tend to forget about. Tyson Campbell. He's another guy we'll have to extend. The fact that his coverage ability has improved IN SPITE of lack luster pass rush and push up front tells me that HE SHOULD BE the guy you save your money for on defense to resign more than anybody else.
Yep. I’ve been popping up reminders here and there about Lawrence’s mega nuke deal incoming along with a guy like Tyson Campbell. Campbell made a lot of future money with that interception at home against Tennessee.
You can’t forget about Travis Etienne either. If Etienne rushes for anything north of 1400 with something around 12 TD then he will have to be considered for an extension.
Guys like Agnew, Engram, Zay Jones, Oloukon, and Scherff could become cap casualties.
(07-08-2023, 11:11 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2023, 09:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Griffin is already gone. Robinson was gone and on borrowed time for awhile now. Engram may be expendable if Ridley turns out being the guy. You can only spread the football around to so many players out there. Strange being selected in the 3rd RD also does not bode well for Engram's long term future here.
Allen, for me personally, he would have to set the world on fire this year for me to care about keeping him beyond 2023. As that 2017 defense began to fall apart due to locker room cancer, ego and age. Allen failed miserably in stepping up to backfill the primary roles that guys like Ngakoue and Campbell played.
I know people like to throw the PFF grades at me and use that "Well, it's not all about sacks, etc". Okay, sure. Whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better at night. If Josh Allen was as good as people kept painting him out to be? We wouldn't have wasted a first round pick on Chaisson and we wouldn't have probably had to drop the number one overall pick on Travon Walker last year. Allen has been serviceable, but, not a consistent enough game breaking presence that opponents fear on a weekly basis.
Darious Williams is an interesting loss if it happens. He was used in the nickel last year and then eventually placed outside where he needed to be to begin with to succeed. Only hope is that Braswell out of Rutgers shines enough as a rookie to develop nice and easy in 2023 and he potentially sneaks into the starting line-up and quietly does his job well enough for nobody to notice.
I'll tell you another thing that people tend to forget about. Tyson Campbell. He's another guy we'll have to extend. The fact that his coverage ability has improved IN SPITE of lack luster pass rush and push up front tells me that HE SHOULD BE the guy you save your money for on defense to resign more than anybody else.
Yep. I’ve been popping up reminders here and there about Lawrence’s mega nuke deal incoming along with a guy like Tyson Campbell. Campbell made a lot of future money with that interception at home against Tennessee.
You can’t forget about Travis Etienne either. If Etienne rushes for anything north of 1400 with something around 12 TD then he will have to be considered for an extension.
Guys like Agnew, Engram, Zay Jones, Oloukon, and Scherff could become cap casualties.
Lawrence is getting paid before the 2024 season starts and it could be a new market setting contract.
Trevor being Trevor gives me some faith that he/his agent will allow the deal to be structured in a way that it doesn't cripple the team's cap. i.e. - creatively spread out the money
Campbell will likely get paid top 5 CB money before the 2025 season if he stays on this pace of play.
Etienne will depend on contribution and effectiveness of other backs brought in.
If you are paying big money to a QB, a couple of WRs, conceivably a TE depending on what shakes out with Engram + a couple of healthy lineman salaries, you may not have the luxury of throwing money at a RB. Just draft and develop there.
Agnew and Oluokun could be on their final year this year due to the roster around them - and Scherff is aging out.
Sucks, because as of right now, Oluokun is still our best ILB. Hopefully others step up soon.
I wouldn't be so quick to write off Zay Jones and Evan Engram due to cap as you are.
I think they'll try hard to keep those guys around.
(07-08-2023, 11:11 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2023, 09:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Griffin is already gone. Robinson was gone and on borrowed time for awhile now. Engram may be expendable if Ridley turns out being the guy. You can only spread the football around to so many players out there. Strange being selected in the 3rd RD also does not bode well for Engram's long term future here.
Allen, for me personally, he would have to set the world on fire this year for me to care about keeping him beyond 2023. As that 2017 defense began to fall apart due to locker room cancer, ego and age. Allen failed miserably in stepping up to backfill the primary roles that guys like Ngakoue and Campbell played.
I know people like to throw the PFF grades at me and use that "Well, it's not all about sacks, etc". Okay, sure. Whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better at night. If Josh Allen was as good as people kept painting him out to be? We wouldn't have wasted a first round pick on Chaisson and we wouldn't have probably had to drop the number one overall pick on Travon Walker last year. Allen has been serviceable, but, not a consistent enough game breaking presence that opponents fear on a weekly basis.
Darious Williams is an interesting loss if it happens. He was used in the nickel last year and then eventually placed outside where he needed to be to begin with to succeed. Only hope is that Braswell out of Rutgers shines enough as a rookie to develop nice and easy in 2023 and he potentially sneaks into the starting line-up and quietly does his job well enough for nobody to notice.
I'll tell you another thing that people tend to forget about. Tyson Campbell. He's another guy we'll have to extend. The fact that his coverage ability has improved IN SPITE of lack luster pass rush and push up front tells me that HE SHOULD BE the guy you save your money for on defense to resign more than anybody else.
Yep. I’ve been popping up reminders here and there about Lawrence’s mega nuke deal incoming along with a guy like Tyson Campbell. Campbell made a lot of future money with that interception at home against Tennessee.
You can’t forget about Travis Etienne either. If Etienne rushes for anything north of 1400 with something around 12 TD then he will have to be considered for an extension.
Guys like Agnew, Engram, Zay Jones, Oloukon, and Scherff could become cap casualties.
Yepper. Going to be an interesting season here shortly. I know this off season was pretty ho-hum for us fans since we have not had this much stability in awhile or hope around the corner. However, next year after this season is over with and done is where it'll start to get cyclical again with the market and Baalke is going to have to cut his teeth some more as a General Manager.
(07-07-2023, 12:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They still have to get Engram to either sign a deal in a downward trending TE market, or sign his tag and play on that this year. That in itself will influence liquid cash for the team as a long term deal may free up more short term cash.
I think that how this ^ plays out, combined with how healthy the team remains throughout camp/preseason, combined with general roster evaluation ( are we worse-off somewhere than coaches anticipated?) , + Cam's actual health and ability in August will all determine what happens with any roster spending.
They don't need to be in a hurry right now IMO, and they're probably better off letting the needs make themselves more plain and apparent via the process of camp.
Any money that can rollover to next year's cap is also worth saving considering the contracts coming rapidly down the pike at us. There is just no hurry to spend for this team right now, IMO.
This !!! x10.
Also, our management has said just as much. People somehow think it is easy to "go get" a pass rusher or whatever this time of the season. Sure there are players available that have the skills, but will they be as productive here in our system? Our track record says no. We end up overpaying for less production. (The only bright side is it will give some posters here someone else to complain about) I am not saying it is impossible to find someone, but it is unlikely.
Best case is training camp goes well enough we don't need to result to patching our roster like this and save the space for injury replacement or roll it to next year.
(07-08-2023, 11:11 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2023, 09:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Griffin is already gone. Robinson was gone and on borrowed time for awhile now. Engram may be expendable if Ridley turns out being the guy. You can only spread the football around to so many players out there. Strange being selected in the 3rd RD also does not bode well for Engram's long term future here.
Allen, for me personally, he would have to set the world on fire this year for me to care about keeping him beyond 2023. As that 2017 defense began to fall apart due to locker room cancer, ego and age. Allen failed miserably in stepping up to backfill the primary roles that guys like Ngakoue and Campbell played.
I know people like to throw the PFF grades at me and use that "Well, it's not all about sacks, etc". Okay, sure. Whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better at night. If Josh Allen was as good as people kept painting him out to be? We wouldn't have wasted a first round pick on Chaisson and we wouldn't have probably had to drop the number one overall pick on Travon Walker last year. Allen has been serviceable, but, not a consistent enough game breaking presence that opponents fear on a weekly basis.
Darious Williams is an interesting loss if it happens. He was used in the nickel last year and then eventually placed outside where he needed to be to begin with to succeed. Only hope is that Braswell out of Rutgers shines enough as a rookie to develop nice and easy in 2023 and he potentially sneaks into the starting line-up and quietly does his job well enough for nobody to notice.
I'll tell you another thing that people tend to forget about. Tyson Campbell. He's another guy we'll have to extend. The fact that his coverage ability has improved IN SPITE of lack luster pass rush and push up front tells me that HE SHOULD BE the guy you save your money for on defense to resign more than anybody else.
Yep. I’ve been popping up reminders here and there about Lawrence’s mega nuke deal incoming along with a guy like Tyson Campbell. Campbell made a lot of future money with that interception at home against Tennessee.
You can’t forget about Travis Etienne either. If Etienne rushes for anything north of 1400 with something around 12 TD then he will have to be considered for an extension.
Guys like Agnew, Engram, Zay Jones, Oloukon, and Scherff could become cap casualties.
Signing ETN to a new deal would be a mistake, especially if he's playing very well and will want big $$. He's going into year 3 this season. Picking up his 5th year option next year would give us 3 more seasons (including this coming season) of use from him. He'll then be pushing 28 with who knows how much mileage/wear and tear on his body. Let him walk and replace him.
It's [BLEEP] for RBs these days, but that's the reality of the position. History proves that giving RBs a big 2nd contract rarely ever works out in the team's favor.