(08-24-2023, 07:57 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (08-23-2023, 02:01 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Tim Jones is getting that last WR spot. They also said he is the only WR that can play all 3 spots including slot, left or right. He’s also the teams gunner on kickoff and punt team. He’s also the best ‘gunner blocker’ on the team.
I think the big questions:
1) Is tim maxed out, or can he develop into anything more than gunner/blocker?
2) Are any of the other WR on the bubble more promising, enough so that keeping a guy solely for ST play isn't worth it?
3) If we do have to call the 5th WR into action, which do you prefer? Tim or one of the bubble WR?
I'll agree with other sentiment that in the perfect world we see the 5th WR on rare occasion.
This is the Dewey Wingard conundrum on the other side of the ball - Mediocre if called to play downs 1-3, but excels on 4th. Is that enough to keep over other guys who may have more to offer on downs 1-3?
It comes down to value. Tim offers more value with his special teams ability. Cooks, Williams and Harris don’t offer anything beyond WR. As Lageman explained, it comes down to what can you bring to the table on special teams and right now Tim Jones has more value than any other WR on the bubble because he is one of the best gunners on the team, and because he can block the other teams gunners on punt return. Jones is the gunner on kickoff team and punt team.
Tim Jones forced a fumble on kickoff team against Dallas a couple weeks ago. Those are the type of plays that Harris, Cooks, Williams, haven’t made.
You forgot to include that Tim Jones, according to Lageman, is the only WR on the team that can play all 3 receiver spots. Cooks, Harris, Williams can’t play all 3 spots. Tim Jones can, and he knows all the play calls for all 3 spots. Another factor is Jones was in this same system last season.
As you saw against Dallas, on the 48 yard catch, Tim can get loose too. He was also the leading WR in last years’ preseason.
Last year the WR6 had 4 catches, so it becomes all about special teams.
(08-24-2023, 03:08 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 07:57 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I think the big questions:
1) Is tim maxed out, or can he develop into anything more than gunner/blocker?
2) Are any of the other WR on the bubble more promising, enough so that keeping a guy solely for ST play isn't worth it?
3) If we do have to call the 5th WR into action, which do you prefer? Tim or one of the bubble WR?
I'll agree with other sentiment that in the perfect world we see the 5th WR on rare occasion.
This is the Dewey Wingard conundrum on the other side of the ball - Mediocre if called to play downs 1-3, but excels on 4th. Is that enough to keep over other guys who may have more to offer on downs 1-3?
It comes down to value. Tim offers more value with his special teams ability. Cooks, Williams and Harris don’t offer anything beyond WR. As Lageman explained, it comes down to what can you bring to the table on special teams and right now Tim Jones has more value than any other WR on the bubble because he is one of the best gunners on the team, and because he can block the other teams gunners on punt return. Jones is the gunner on kickoff team and punt team.
Tim Jones forced a fumble on kickoff team against Dallas a couple weeks ago. Those are the type of plays that Harris, Cooks, Williams, haven’t made.
You forgot to include that Tim Jones, according to Lageman, is the only WR on the team that can play all 3 receiver spots. Cooks, Harris, Williams can’t play all 3 spots. Tim Jones can, and he knows all the play calls for all 3 spots. Another factor is Jones was in this same system last season.
As you saw against Dallas, on the 48 yard catch, Tim can get loose too. He was also the leading WR in last years’ preseason.
Last year the WR6 had 4 catches, so it becomes all about special teams.
You keep saying this.
A. It was a punt - not a kickoff
B. Matisick tackled the ball carrier on the side where he had the ball tucked and affected that arm - Not Jones
c. Jones tackled him on the far side, was trailing him when the ball popped out - and would have to have a 5 foot long arm to have forced the fumble at that point
![[Image: Screen-Shot-2023-08-24-at-5-14-33-PM.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/4326Hrpz/Screen-Shot-2023-08-24-at-5-14-33-PM.png)
(08-24-2023, 05:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 03:08 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]It comes down to value. Tim offers more value with his special teams ability. Cooks, Williams and Harris don’t offer anything beyond WR. As Lageman explained, it comes down to what can you bring to the table on special teams and right now Tim Jones has more value than any other WR on the bubble because he is one of the best gunners on the team, and because he can block the other teams gunners on punt return. Jones is the gunner on kickoff team and punt team.
Tim Jones forced a fumble on kickoff team against Dallas a couple weeks ago. Those are the type of plays that Harris, Cooks, Williams, haven’t made.
You forgot to include that Tim Jones, according to Lageman, is the only WR on the team that can play all 3 receiver spots. Cooks, Harris, Williams can’t play all 3 spots. Tim Jones can, and he knows all the play calls for all 3 spots. Another factor is Jones was in this same system last season.
As you saw against Dallas, on the 48 yard catch, Tim can get loose too. He was also the leading WR in last years’ preseason.
Last year the WR6 had 4 catches, so it becomes all about special teams.
You keep saying this.
A. It was a punt - not a kickoff
B. Matisick tackled the ball carrier on the side where he had the ball tucked and affected that arm - Not Jones
c. Jones tackled him on the far side, was trailing him when the ball popped out - and would have to have a 5 foot long arm to have forced the fumble at that point
Tim Jones was credited by NFL.com and by CBS.com as the player that forced the fumble. Stat check the stat man if you want.
(08-25-2023, 12:02 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 07:26 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Tim Jones was credited by NFL.com and by CBS.com as the player that forced the fumble. Stat check the stat man if you want.
Dey wrong
Now you know why I kept saying it. Jones forced the fumble on that play.
(08-25-2023, 03:39 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 12:02 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Dey wrong
Now you know why I kept saying it. Jones forced the fumble on that play.
No - Matisick did.
I've watched it at 1/4 speed 5 times.
(08-24-2023, 03:08 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 07:57 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I think the big questions:
1) Is tim maxed out, or can he develop into anything more than gunner/blocker?
2) Are any of the other WR on the bubble more promising, enough so that keeping a guy solely for ST play isn't worth it?
3) If we do have to call the 5th WR into action, which do you prefer? Tim or one of the bubble WR?
I'll agree with other sentiment that in the perfect world we see the 5th WR on rare occasion.
This is the Dewey Wingard conundrum on the other side of the ball - Mediocre if called to play downs 1-3, but excels on 4th. Is that enough to keep over other guys who may have more to offer on downs 1-3?
It comes down to value. Tim offers more value with his special teams ability. Cooks, Williams and Harris don’t offer anything beyond WR. As Lageman explained, it comes down to what can you bring to the table on special teams and right now Tim Jones has more value than any other WR on the bubble because he is one of the best gunners on the team, and because he can block the other teams gunners on punt return. Jones is the gunner on kickoff team and punt team.
Tim Jones forced a fumble on kickoff team against Dallas a couple weeks ago. Those are the type of plays that Harris, Cooks, Williams, haven’t made.
You forgot to include that Tim Jones, according to Lageman, is the only WR on the team that can play all 3 receiver spots. Cooks, Harris, Williams can’t play all 3 spots. Tim Jones can, and he knows all the play calls for all 3 spots. Another factor is Jones was in this same system last season.
As you saw against Dallas, on the 48 yard catch, Tim can get loose too. He was also the leading WR in last years’ preseason.
Last year the WR6 had 4 catches, so it becomes all about special teams.
I'd keep Jones, cut Luke Farrell, and keep either Jacob Harris or Elijah Cooks as a WR/TE hybrid. Brenton Strange is the blocking tight end on the roster. Don't need two. If extra push is needed at the goal line, use an extra lineman.
Tim Jones is not it. imho he can't really block, there was a big run where he got a holding penalty on the opposite side of the field, literally the play before his 48 yard catch. Also on that 48 yard catch the defender was DRAPED over him, I give him credit for making the catch but the lack of seperation is alarming.
Given that we might keep a 3rd QB so Rourke doesn't get stolen, I'd rather have Farrell and more depth at TE rather than a dime a dozen type receiver like Tim Jones. You can find a guy like him on practice squads across the NFL. I don't think he's worth keeping as a 6th WR unless he's somehow the 2nd coming of Montell Owens or Kassim Osgood as a gunner on ST's which he is most definitely not.
(08-25-2023, 05:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 03:39 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Now you know why I kept saying it. Jones forced the fumble on that play.
No - Matisick did.
I've watched it at 1/4 speed 5 times.
JF24 - I found the alt angles.
Both Jags swiped at the ball carrier's right hand and Tim Jones made first contact. While they both affected the fumble it is 100% correct to attribute the FF to Jones.
Jones initially broke it loose and Matisick rapidly also contacted the ball carrying hand/wrist ending any chance of the carrier recovering the loose ball.
My bad!
(08-25-2023, 06:36 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]Tim Jones is not it. imho he can't really block, there was a big run where he got a holding penalty on the opposite side of the field, literally the play before his 48 yard catch. Also on that 48 yard catch the defender was DRAPED over him, I give him credit for making the catch but the lack of seperation is alarming.
Given that we might keep a 3rd QB so Rourke doesn't get stolen, I'd rather have Farrell and more depth at TE rather than a dime a dozen type receiver like Tim Jones. You can find a guy like him on practice squads across the NFL. I don't think he's worth keeping as a 6th WR unless he's somehow the 2nd coming of Montell Owens or Kassim Osgood as a gunner on ST's which he is most definitely not.
Lol. He literally scored 80 on run blocking last game. Closest other receiver scored 60’s and Elijah and some others were in the 30’s.
The run was on HIS side of the field and really the first penalty from him I remember (and they brought him in on a lot of run downs last season). His blocking against cowboys allowed CjB to stroll into the endzone.
Say what you will about separation or other such things but saying he can’t block makes me wonder if you even watch the game.
I honestly don't feel like breaking down the whole roster. Just lazy on my end. BUT. I will add this on my end.
WR: I really think they should keep Elijah Cooks and Tim Jones on the final roster. I understand we drafted Parker Washington. I just didn't see anything out of him that really stood out, at least not in a positive way. Fumbling on a return is not good. He had a 15 yard TD against the Lions in that game. Other than that. He had an easy run and catch in the first game against the Cowgirls.
Cooks has some really good qualities. Especially size wise and 50/50 ability that he's shown this preseason. I like that. We don't have that with our starting line-up really. Would be a good change of pace WR to toss in the mix inside the redzone. Tim just seems to make big catches man. It's hard to ignore that. It's just hard to get him on the field I guess. However. He should still be on this roster.
Parker was a 6th RD pick. Just try and stash him on the practice squad. If he gets picked up? He gets picked up. I honestly think he's just another Green type receiver who we had years ago coming out of FSU.
TE wise. I think it's going to be Engram, Strange, Prince & Farrell. That's a good group on paper. Secondary for me is anybody's guess. Junior should be on the team for sure. I don't know about Haslett or Braswell though. One of them is probably getting cut or going to the practice squad. Johnson makes it I think as the nickel guy. He's been a good tackler so far already. We need that in our secondary and in added run support.
I think my biggest concern is the OL in general. Feel bad for Cooper Hodges. They might keep him on for limited IR and then try to get him into the rotation at some point. Still tomorrow for some of these guys but WR is the obvious group for me where it's going to be tough to make decisions and fill out the 5th and 6th spot. I think they're keeping 4 RB's for sure. With it being Etienne, Bigsby, Hasty and Johnson.
Mind-boggling that there are rumours that Rourke won't make the roster. He's head and shoulders above Beathard.
(08-25-2023, 10:37 PM)Pick 6 Wrote: [ -> ]Mind-boggling that there are rumours that Rourke won't make the roster. He's head and shoulders above Beathard.
Could be a smokescreen. In hopes of drumming up a trading partner. I mean, [BLEEP], the 49ers forked over Lance to the Cowboys for a 4th RD pick today. We could probably get a 5th or 6th for him with the right partner. Teams like Atlanta, Washington and even Arizona might want to take a look into this kid after this game is over tomorrow night.
Could also be that if we don't have any options there? Maybe they in fact keep him and cut Beathard.
(08-27-2023, 06:15 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1...2018406601
Interesting. Not sure about Claybrooks making this roster. I would keep Montaric Brown over him or Eric Hallett. It's crazy to think they'll keep five safeties over four edge rushers though. I think it should be flipped. I didn't see [BLEEP] out of Lacy at all. Bums me out we passed on Herbig now in that round. We had a good opportunity to get faster and naturally better from a technical point by combining him with Abdullah.
I know Parker Washington will make the team. I can live with Tim Jones making it again. I just think we're making a mistake in allowing a guy like Elijah Cooks or Jacob Harris to go. Would rather see one of them kept with a TE being cut for one of those guys to flex into that role as a hybrid or Washington kicked to the Practice Squad. The RB room was obvious for me. I think letting Rourke go over Beathard is a mistake.
These are the toughest cuts in years. A lot of these guys will not make it back to our practice squad.
(08-27-2023, 10:04 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]These are the toughest cuts in years. A lot of these guys will not make it back to our practice squad.
Man that is a good problem to have.
(08-27-2023, 10:04 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]These are the toughest cuts in years. A lot of these guys will not make it back to our practice squad.
Look on the bright side. The guys who will be cut have had an opportunity to put some good film out on the street. The Jaguars organization has increased the likelihood they will be signed elsewhere. Doors are opening while one is closing.