(08-24-2023, 12:42 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 11:23 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]You call it incendiary, I call it refreshing. The system is broken whether you realise it or not. It’s going to take an outsider with new ideas to fix it. Trump never had the temperament to do this hopefully Vivek does.
I don't think Vivek was incendiary at all. He didn't make me feel angry. Rather, when moderators and other candidates presented him with facts, he said, "I reject those facts." A large contingent of both parties simply doesn't believe that difficult questions exist, and they want a candidate who will reinforce their delusions so they feel good.
But that's why he's dangerous. If he's President and we actually have a difficult situation, will he try to assert his way out of it? "Mr. President the Congress and Supreme Court say that's beyond your authority." "No they didn't." See what I mean?
Vivek is not Trump in any way shape or form in that regard.
(08-24-2023, 12:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 11:08 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Pence is arguably the GOP's best potential president although not necessarily the best candidate due to having the personality of a turnip. Haley would be a good candidate from my perspective but has a zero percent chance in either the primaries or the general election.
Pence and Haley both said they would support Trump if he got the nomination. Almost everything else they said made sense. But that one hand raise contradicts everything. I know why they said so, because they think not saying so will turn off too many voters, but it highlights the impossible task they have.
That whole question was just a set up, and DeSantis should've pulled the same "we aren't doing hand raises" response again. It's not beyond the pale to answer that "although I do not approve of some of the former President's personal behaviors I will support whomever wins our Party's nomination, including any of my friends here on stage or Donald Trump should he be the nominee. It's more important that a united Republican Party contest and oppose the radical agenda of the left than to splinter around questions of personality."
But nah, the Fox ratings demand a brewhaha.
(08-24-2023, 12:49 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 12:42 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Vivek was incendiary at all. He didn't make me feel angry. Rather, when moderators and other candidates presented him with facts, he said, "I reject those facts." A large contingent of both parties simply doesn't believe that difficult questions exist, and they want a candidate who will reinforce their delusions so they feel good.
But that's why he's dangerous. If he's President and we actually have a difficult situation, will he try to assert his way out of it? "Mr. President the Congress and Supreme Court say that's beyond your authority." "No they didn't." See what I mean?
Vivek is not Trump in any way shape or form in that regard.
That remains to be seen. When Trump’s first "Muslim ban" executive order was rejected by judges, Trump accepted that and tried again. We don't know if Vivek would treat judges better or worse. Frankly we don't know if today's version of Trump would either, after 2 impeachments and 4 indictments.
(08-24-2023, 12:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 12:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Pence and Haley both said they would support Trump if he got the nomination. Almost everything else they said made sense. But that one hand raise contradicts everything. I know why they said so, because they think not saying so will turn off too many voters, but it highlights the impossible task they have.
That whole question was just a set up, and DeSantis should've pulled the same "we aren't doing hand raises" response again. It's not beyond the pale to answer that "although I do not approve of some of the former President's personal behaviors I will support whomever wins our Party's nomination, including any of my friends here on stage or Donald Trump should he be the nominee. It's more important that a united Republican Party contest and oppose the radical agenda of the left than to splinter around questions of personality."
But nah, the Fox ratings demand a brewhaha.
A united Republican party is important.
But the constitution is more important. Much more.
Pence said in no uncertain terms that Trump asked him to help suspend the constitution. And Pence pointed out that Trump has yet to express any contrition for it.
Judging him by his own words, Pence is saying that getting a Republican, any Republican, in the White House in 2025 is more important than preserving the Constitution and the rule of law.
I liked Vivek.. I'd vote for him if Trump wasn't in the race..
(08-24-2023, 01:08 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]I liked Vivek.. I'd vote for him if Trump wasn't in the race..
Kind of like choosing to die by firing squad or electrocution.
wow .... didn't realized electrocution was spelled with an "o". just thought it would with an "i" since the basis of the word is electric --- learn something new every day.
(08-24-2023, 01:35 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 01:08 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]I liked Vivek.. I'd vote for him if Trump wasn't in the race..
Kind of like choosing to die by firing squad or electrocution.
wow .... didn't realized electrocution was spelled with an "o". just thought it would with an "i" since the basis of the word is electric --- learn something new every day.
As far as I know, he doesn't touch kids or want to launder money to The Ukraine.. Sounds good to me!
(08-24-2023, 12:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 11:08 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Pence is arguably the GOP's best potential president although not necessarily the best candidate due to having the personality of a turnip. Haley would be a good candidate from my perspective but has a zero percent chance in either the primaries or the general election.
Pence and Haley both said they would support Trump if he got the nomination. Almost everything else they said made sense. But that one hand raise contradicts everything. I know why they said so, because they think not saying so will turn off too many voters, but it highlights the impossible task they have.
I didn’t take it to mean they’d specifically “support Trump” if he was nominated, I took that to mean they’d support the choice made by the voters. This was an effort to differentiate themselves from Trump. And also a bit of pandering but that’s probably expected.
Just had to talk about how inflation, corporatism, and rampant immigration is destroying the economy and middle-class and it'd be a homerun. But they can't do that, because the Republican party is full of imbeciles.
Yup. I was just complaining about that very same thing. Not one question about corporatism from fox in this debate.
(08-24-2023, 08:56 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yup. I was just complaining about that very same thing. Not one question about corporatism from fox in this debate.
Lol, they aren't going to call themselves out.
(08-24-2023, 08:14 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Just had to talk about how inflation, corporatism, and rampant immigration is destroying the economy and middle-class and it'd be a homerun. But they can't do that, because the Republican party is full of imbeciles.
They mentioned inflation at least.
Also, if we had more immigration we would have less inflation.
(08-24-2023, 09:51 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Nikki is an establishment moderate. Nothing will change with her at the helm. Only the messaging. Mike Pence and Chris Christie need to drop out. They aren't serious contenders. They are there as obstacles to Trump, which, ironically, only gives Trump a bigger voice as they drown out his competitors. DeSantis did ok. He needs more time to talk. Tim Scott is ok. Needs more time to talk. The other two governors need to drop out. They are old and boring. Vivek is an outsider. He will be labeled as crazy by the establishment MSM, but he has some fresh ideas, youthful energy, and a vision for a united America. He's the only Republican I see reaching across the aisle to minorities and speaking on liberal and progressive platforms.
If you could narrow this field to Haley, Scott, DeSantis, and Vivek, you could have a more informative debate on real issues. Not that it matters. Unless we end with an establishment Republican who will do the bidding of our corporate overlords, they aren't winning this election.
I finally watched it last night. I 100% agree with the part in bold. My order of preference would be:
DeSantis
Haley
Scott
Vivek
The other four really need to drop out.
(08-25-2023, 11:25 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2023, 09:51 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Nikki is an establishment moderate. Nothing will change with her at the helm. Only the messaging. Mike Pence and Chris Christie need to drop out. They aren't serious contenders. They are there as obstacles to Trump, which, ironically, only gives Trump a bigger voice as they drown out his competitors. DeSantis did ok. He needs more time to talk. Tim Scott is ok. Needs more time to talk. The other two governors need to drop out. They are old and boring. Vivek is an outsider. He will be labeled as crazy by the establishment MSM, but he has some fresh ideas, youthful energy, and a vision for a united America. He's the only Republican I see reaching across the aisle to minorities and speaking on liberal and progressive platforms.
If you could narrow this field to Haley, Scott, DeSantis, and Vivek, you could have a more informative debate on real issues. Not that it matters. Unless we end with an establishment Republican who will do the bidding of our corporate overlords, they aren't winning this election.
I finally watched it last night. I 100% agree with the part in bold. My order of preference would be:
DeSantis
Haley
Scott
Vivek
The other four really need to drop out.
Christie shouldn't drop out. Someone needs to continue to point out how insane it is to continue support Trump until the other candidates and the other voters finally get it. If Nikki Haley or Pence hadn't raised their hands to be willing to support Trump, then Christie wouldn't be needed anymore, but as of now his participation is critical.
DeSantis had literally nothing to say. Avoided every question and spoke out of both sides of his mouth. And he wasn't even charismatic while he did it. If you want illogical nonsense, Vivek does it better. Ideally neither would be on the stage though, because ideally all of the candidates would acknowledge facts and use logic to explain their opinions.
Scott's personality came off very weak, and Pence's came off very old fashioned. That squinty eyed look into your soul thing worked for Bush 43 but it's not going to work in 2024. Pence told us that Trump asked him to violate the constitution. It's good we know that now, but he has nothing else of value to tell us, I don't think. Scott deserves another chance, but I think we've seen enough of Pence in the last 7 years.
I'd keep
Haley
Christie
Scott
Vivek (for the lols)
(08-25-2023, 11:37 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 11:25 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I finally watched it last night. I 100% agree with the part in bold. My order of preference would be:
DeSantis
Haley
Scott
Vivek
The other four really need to drop out.
Christie shouldn't drop out. Someone needs to continue to point out how insane it is to continue support Trump until the other candidates and the other voters finally get it. If Nikki Haley or Pence hadn't raised their hands to be willing to support Trump, then Christie wouldn't be needed anymore, but as of now his participation is critical.
DeSantis had literally nothing to say. Avoided every question and spoke out of both sides of his mouth. And he wasn't even charismatic while he did it. If you want illogical nonsense, Vivek does it better. Ideally neither would be on the stage though, because ideally all of the candidates would acknowledge facts and use logic to explain their opinions.
Scott's personality came off very weak, and Pence's came off very old fashioned. That squinty eyed look into your soul thing worked for Bush 43 but it's not going to work in 2024. Pence told us that Trump asked him to violate the constitution. It's good we know that now, but he has nothing else of value to tell us, I don't think. Scott deserves another chance, but I think we've seen enough of Pence in the last 7 years.
I'd keep
Haley
Christie
Scott
Vivek (for the lols)
Many other democrats like you seem to like Christie.
Kris Krispykreme is a fat lump of garbage.. Typical Jersey garbage lolol
(08-25-2023, 11:59 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 11:37 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Christie shouldn't drop out. Someone needs to continue to point out how insane it is to continue support Trump until the other candidates and the other voters finally get it. If Nikki Haley or Pence hadn't raised their hands to be willing to support Trump, then Christie wouldn't be needed anymore, but as of now his participation is critical.
DeSantis had literally nothing to say. Avoided every question and spoke out of both sides of his mouth. And he wasn't even charismatic while he did it. If you want illogical nonsense, Vivek does it better. Ideally neither would be on the stage though, because ideally all of the candidates would acknowledge facts and use logic to explain their opinions.
Scott's personality came off very weak, and Pence's came off very old fashioned. That squinty eyed look into your soul thing worked for Bush 43 but it's not going to work in 2024. Pence told us that Trump asked him to violate the constitution. It's good we know that now, but he has nothing else of value to tell us, I don't think. Scott deserves another chance, but I think we've seen enough of Pence in the last 7 years.
I'd keep
Haley
Christie
Scott
Vivek (for the lols)
Many other democrats like you seem to like Christie.
I didn't say I liked him. I said he needs to be there for now.
(08-25-2023, 12:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 11:59 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Many other democrats like you seem to like Christie.
I didn't say I liked him. I said he needs to be there for now.
Why would you want your party divided? Oh...we know why.
(08-25-2023, 01:06 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 12:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say I liked him. I said he needs to be there for now.
Why would you want your party divided? Oh...we know why.
The issue becomes irrelevant if Trump drops out. No division then.
Trump thinks the party is more important than the constitution.
And Trump thinks Trump is more important than the party.
I'm not dividing the party. Neither is Christie. Trump is.
All he has to do is drop out.
(08-25-2023, 02:18 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2023, 01:06 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Why would you want your party divided? Oh...we know why.
The issue becomes irrelevant if Trump drops out. No division then.
Trump thinks the party is more important than the constitution.
And Trump thinks Trump is more important than the party.
I'm not dividing the party. Neither is Christie. Trump is.
All he has to do is drop out.
That's the whole objective of your democrat party.