I've seen lots of consternation over the holding or DPI call that went our way on Engram in the end zone that gave us a 1st and goal and resulted in a TD. Feel free to discuss this and other flags here. The others all seemed to be make up calls.
Here is the play
The defender arm bars Engram around the waist at the goal line. It's ticky tack but we see it called against our guys fairly often too.
I he doesn't slow up 17 there our TE probably separates to make the catch w/o it being swatted.
I think that's why it drew the flag
![[Image: engramhold.gif]](https://i.postimg.cc/4yP4QJ8h/engramhold.gif)
(11-27-2023, 12:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen lots of consternation over the holding or DPI call that went our way on Engram in the end zone that gave us a 1st and goal and resulted in a TD. Feel free to discuss this and other flags here. The others all seemed to be make up calls.
Here is the play
The defender arm bars Engram around the waist at the goal line. It's ticky tack but we see it called against our guys fairly often too.
I he doesn't slow up 17 there our TE probably separates to make the catch w/o it being swatted.
I think that's why it drew the flag
I don't see a penalty there. Sorry, got to be honest.
The one they missed that led to an interception was egregious, but then the make-up calls started coming, and there were several of them.
Yes, we have been called for this many times in the bank and fans around me get all upset.
The three main desperate moves of a beaten defensive back are holding, the arm bar and the attempt to restrict the receiver from using his trailing hand to catch the ball, AKA "hand fighting" excuse. After 5 yards neither player is technically allowed to do these things. The refs will let it go when BOTH players are engaging in these. When the defensive guy is beaten and it causes the pass to be incomplete they will call it every time.
I have a Steelers friend. He advised me our receivers should practice catching with one hand to ready themselves for the Texans
Calls were [BLEEP] for tat in the game. A lot of missed calls. Holding on offense against them in particular was missed several times.
Here's how I look at it. Both teams had calls go against them. Both teams had drives that stalled.
The biggest takeaway is this. Stroud ate a sack on their final drive and that ultimately turned into a 58 yard field goal attempt that was missed.
Game was a sack away from going into OT with them having a chance to win it.
Also. We left 13 points off the board. Ridley drop. Engram drop that turned into 3. Kirk drop that turned into a punt or 3. The missed 4th and goal try before half time.
Tinhorns fans can go cry harder elsewhere. Games over. See you in the play offs or next year.
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(11-27-2023, 12:32 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2023, 12:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen lots of consternation over the holding or DPI call that went our way on Engram in the end zone that gave us a 1st and goal and resulted in a TD. Feel free to discuss this and other flags here. The others all seemed to be make up calls.
Here is the play
The defender arm bars Engram around the waist at the goal line. It's ticky tack but we see it called against our guys fairly often too.
I he doesn't slow up 17 there our TE probably separates to make the catch w/o it being swatted.
I think that's why it drew the flag
I don't see a penalty there. Sorry, got to be honest.
The one they missed that led to an interception was egregious, but then the make-up calls started coming, and there were several of them.
I was looking at Zay first and thinking the same thing, then realized Engram was more center of the frame. It looked like he was trying to run through mud as the defender exerted pressure against him. I don't think you are legally allowed to do that outside of 5 yards down the field or whatever. This was further away from the LOS than 5 yards. Legitimate flag imo.
In the end....the Jags got the W.
that's all that counts
(11-27-2023, 01:11 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2023, 12:32 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see a penalty there. Sorry, got to be honest.
The one they missed that led to an interception was egregious, but then the make-up calls started coming, and there were several of them.
I was looking at Zay first and thinking the same thing, then realized Engram was more center of the frame. It looked like he was trying to run through mud as the defender exerted pressure against him. I don't think you are legally allowed to do outside of 5 yards or whatever. This was further away from the LOS than 5 yards. Legitimate flag imo.
Yes - focus on Engram at the goaline between the "u" and "s" Houston script.
That's what drew the flag - he has his arm in front of the advancing receiver barring his progress. Almost looks like he's punching him in the gut. (I know he's not - just describing what to look for - for those missing it)
Penalties didn't ultimately decide the game. Stroud took bad sacks, Texans play calling was situationally bad, and they never pressured Lawrence, and we hit big pass plays. Those were the major reasons for the win.
(11-27-2023, 01:14 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2023, 01:11 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]I was looking at Zay first and thinking the same thing, then realized Engram was more center of the frame. It looked like he was trying to run through mud as the defender exerted pressure against him. I don't think you are legally allowed to do outside of 5 yards or whatever. This was further away from the LOS than 5 yards. Legitimate flag imo.
Yes - focus on Engram at the goaline between the "u" and "s" Houston script.
That's what drew the flag - he has his arm in front of the advancing receiver barring his progress. Almost looks like he's punching him in the gut. (I know he's not - just describing what to look for - for those missing it)
Sorry, I still don't see a penalty there. If there was an angle from the end zone I might see it.
(11-27-2023, 01:14 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Penalties didn't ultimately decide the game. Stroud took bad sacks, Texans play calling was situationally bad, and they never pressured Lawrence, and we hit big pass plays. Those were the major reasons for the win.
This. We left too many points off the board. They ultimately were gifted an interception that turned into a TD drive and they stalled out more times than not than people care to remember. They lost the game on special teams and in pass protection in critical situations.
0/2 on FG attempts.
4 punts with only 2 of those pinning us inside the 20.
We lost the turnover battle.
We lost the ground game battle.
They really should have been blown out yesterday by NFL standards with us leaving points off the board though. For all of the ticky tacky calls they're complaining about. Little spotted their defense at least three series with 1st and 15+ to work with between the false starts, illegal formations or holding.
What really bothers me though. More than anything. Was the three biggest statistical facts out there for the public to see.
1. We're the most penalized team in pass interference with it being in our favor.
2. They're either #1 or #2 in being the most penalized team in pass interference with it being NOT in their favor on defense.
3. That particular officiating crew? They call PI more than any other crew give or take and they call it primarily on the home team.
Coaches should have done a better job preparing their secondary for this game. They didn't. And it showed. They're [BLEEP] lucky that Ridley dropped a TD earlier, Engram dropped an easy 1st down that led to 3 points and Kirk dropped another sideline dime thanks to the sun in his face.
Otherwise, it's not even debatable.
(11-27-2023, 01:20 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2023, 01:14 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Yes - focus on Engram at the goaline between the "u" and "s" Houston script.
That's what drew the flag - he has his arm in front of the advancing receiver barring his progress. Almost looks like he's punching him in the gut. (I know he's not - just describing what to look for - for those missing it)
Sorry, I still don't see a penalty there. If there was an angle from the end zone I might see it.
All good
It's technically a penalty because the defender impeded the receiver by arm barring across the receiver's waist impeding his route.
The issue is that it wasn't a very egregious version of the penalty and many off. crews let these go while others do not.
I'll try to get you another angle when they release all 22 film to the consumer masses. Maybe you'll see it - maybe not. No biggie.
Here are a couple more
Again - both instances show clear illegal contact being made making them flag-able. Also we've seen these types of interference get flags and go uncalled before.
Nothing unusual when you know this ref crew calls more DPI week in and week out than any other crew.
https://twitter.com/ShaunBijani/status/1...05581?s=20
Dont expect these to be called in the playoffs
and also shout out to Pederson on not blowing up on an official for the missed PI on Engram for the int
keep it professional and youll get the "make up" calls
(11-27-2023, 01:11 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2023, 12:32 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see a penalty there. Sorry, got to be honest.
The one they missed that led to an interception was egregious, but then the make-up calls started coming, and there were several of them.
I was looking at Zay first and thinking the same thing, then realized Engram was more center of the frame. It looked like he was trying to run through mud as the defender exerted pressure against him. I don't think you are legally allowed to do that outside of 5 yards down the field or whatever. This was further away from the LOS than 5 yards. Legitimate flag imo.
It was technically a penalty but there’s an argument they should let those go since they’re not egregious. We do seem like those go against us a lot though. I think both teams had similar experiences with the refs yesterday.
(11-27-2023, 03:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Here are a couple more
Again - both instances show clear illegal contact being made making them flag-able. Also we've seen these types of interference get flags and go uncalled before.
Nothing unusual when you know this ref crew calls more DPI week in and week out than any other crew.
https://twitter.com/ShaunBijani/status/1...05581?s=20
Yep #4 was on an island covering all three times he knew he was beaten by the receiver. The first 2 he hoped the refs would not call it. It would be interesting to see how many times they let him get away with it in the game before they began calling it. The third he knew they would and you see the result.
(11-27-2023, 03:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Here are a couple more
Again - both instances show clear illegal contact being made making them flag-able. Also we've seen these types of interference get flags and go uncalled before.
Nothing unusual when you know this ref crew calls more DPI week in and week out than any other crew.
https://twitter.com/ShaunBijani/status/1...05581?s=20
Top right vid I thought was ticky tack at the time, but he's pushing Kirk more to the sideline than Kirk's initial trajectory would have taken him and by extension shrinking the area of the field that Trevor can throw to him. The announcer says the ball was borderline uncatchable, but that's irrelevant at that point. The foul happened before the ball was thrown in my mind. It wasn't egregious but it's there on tape so it wasn't made up by the official.
From the tinhorns perspective, when you can't cover the opposing receivers, it's better to foul and hope it doesn't get flagged than to get burnt. It was pretty clear they couldn't legitimately cover our guys yesterday.
You can see Kirk immediately throw his hands up. I wouldn't be surprised if he or someone mentioned it to the refs leading up to that point. "Hey, please watch #4. He's pushing me off my route every time."
It was poor officiating all the way around, for both sides. That isn't what lost them the game though.
Of course we get this kind of reaction from opposing fans, after a decade where it feels like each call was against the Jags
I'll make the rest of the NFL a deal, we'll give Houston back this game, if they agree to give us back that 2018 AFC Championship Myles Jack fumble recovery return for TD, and the Superbowl trip that they owe us