Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(11-29-2023, 01:08 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 12:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]For sure. Could just be the twitter/X crowd that's bad. I am sure every fanbase, including ours, has it's good eggs and bad news bears only types. 


Yep. That's the stance to take. I think Strange has shown some flashes here and there. It's probably really hard trying to find yourself on an offense as well that's honestly loaded across the skill position groups. Distribution struggle is real sometimes. 


Agreed. I still really enjoyed the Penn St. highlights I found on him on the night they drafted him. I was excited then and I am still excited for his future. I wasn't expecting a Dallas Goedert or Zack Ertz type of talent out of him though. I immediately thought, "Oh, okay, this is a big guy that likes to bruise people that can occasionally catch you sleeping in the passing game".

I thought of him being Pederson's H-Back type of TE player that he had in Philadelphia. Behind Ertz and Goedert. He had Trey Burton. He wasn't the move type TE or field stretcher the way the other two guys were but he would work the underneath game really well, do a lot of motion stuff close to the line of scrimmage and block in the running game. 

That's exactly who I saw when I looked at his highlights at Penn St. I was eyeing Oklahoma's Brayden Willis in this draft for this exact same role. San Francisco took him in RD7 though. He hasn't done anything out there that I am aware of. But, again, hard to find yourself on an offense, much like ours, that, it's clearly already stacked across the board skill position wise.

Boy is it nice to be able say that after the years we have had !  Strange will be ok. He is a blue collar work hard guy.  They will develop him...

Agreed. I think because of so many years of watching this team have pick of the litter at the top of every round that we're just expecting every single player that they draft early to be immediate contributors or impact players. 

That's not the case anymore. That doesn't mean we get lazy though as fans and just accept EVERYTHING that they do in the draft, we can still be nitpicky and look at the finer details. We're fans. We still need SOMETHING to talk about. 

But, yeah. 100%. It's been years anybody could say that in Jacksonville really.

(11-29-2023, 10:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 10:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He whiffed on multiple blocking assignments in the game

He does it way too much to keep getting the snap count he's getting IMO, but I understand their commitment to bringing him along - he has very big upside when he acclimates

What's criminal is his ineffectiveness in the pass game thus far to be selected so high - I'm optimistic it will improve but I can't ignore it while we watch LaPorta thrive this year

I was high on LaPorta. Kept mocking him to us over and over again. Great football player. Really fits the mold perfectly up there for the Lions. I think he'll eventually get more opportunities. Maybe this is a Baalke trait. He's good about finding guys, they just take more than a year to acclimate instead of being ready to go out of the box.

Yeah - I only bring up LaPorta as a preclusion to the "TEs need time to develop" argument. which isn't without merit, but also not a hard/fast rule. 

Baalke is def NOT afraid to go with upside picks who will take development. 

Despite so many naysaying the "culture" imperative in this roster build as coach speak - I actually believe that a guy they believe will develop in due time who is also a better culture fit may be getting the nod sometimes over a player that might be further along but not as suited to their guidelines for the locker room/team unity. 

Piggybacking on this - it was cool to see positive plays coming out of 3 TE sets this week! Not that they've never done it, but it is clicking. The more aspects of this offense that develop this way, the better our post season will be. 
(i.e.- if our OL starts to actually run block worth a damn in the next 5 weeks, ooof, we'll be a tougher matchup to defend)

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(11-29-2023, 11:08 AM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 10:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I was high on LaPorta. Kept mocking him to us over and over again. Great football player. Really fits the mold perfectly up there for the Lions. I think he'll eventually get more opportunities. Maybe this is a Baalke trait. He's good about finding guys, they just take more than a year to acclimate instead of being ready to go out of the box.

Watching Trevor, Travon, Lloyd, Cisco, Campbell all take big year 2 jumps I don’t think that should be ignored.

I believe in our staff to develop him. May even see it in the coming weeks to a degree.

(11-28-2023, 11:08 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2023, 10:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]DEFENSE:

PFF is so weird sometimes - Travon Walker registers 6 pressures and a sack but grades miserably. LOL

This is why these scores need to be taken with a grain of salt.  We have no idea of the qualifications of the reviewer.  Additionally, they have no way of knowing what the player's assignment was on that play. That said other than the eye test it is all we have.  The team has it's own grading process as they do the same thing, they DO NOT use PFF for the reasons stated. It would be interesting to see the differences.

ps look at Josh Allen's grades too....

PFF is and always will be fools gold. It's nice to look at, but really without knowing assignments or basically any play information, I really don't see how you can make an accurate conclusion on any position.

Speaking of year 2 players
I'm particularly interested to see how tyler lacy develops

Walker Little with the 2nd worse grade on the oline. 3 weeks in a row with a below average PFF grade.

That being said, I thought he played very good vs Texans.

(11-29-2023, 05:19 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Walker Little with the 2nd worse grade on the oline. 3 weeks in a row with a below average PFF grade.

That being said, I thought he played very good vs Texans.

Three penalties really stood out for him. He's been asked to do a lot this year though. Play LT, then play LG, hurts his knee, comes back, plays LG really bad with the 49ers game, the whole line did really though. 

Then, he goes LG last two and a half games, jumps right back into LT mid game this past Sunday. Little has really been [BLEEP] around a lot since being here as a Jaguar. These next six games should give him all the opportunities he needs now to get his [BLEEP] together, show that he's ready for the job moving forward. 

Cleveland absolutely has the LG job. No denying that after one game. He'll have his six games now to show he's worth the extension next year now as well or potentially make a point that he deserves a bigger payout elsewhere.

(11-29-2023, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 05:19 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Walker Little with the 2nd worse grade on the oline. 3 weeks in a row with a below average PFF grade.

That being said, I thought he played very good vs Texans.

Three penalties really stood out for him. He's been asked to do a lot this year though. Play LT, then play LG, hurts his knee, comes back, plays LG really bad with the 49ers game, the whole line did really though. 

Then, he goes LG last two and a half games, jumps right back into LT mid game this past Sunday. Little has really been [BLEEP] around a lot since being here as a Jaguar. These next six games should give him all the opportunities he needs now to get his [BLEEP] together, show that he's ready for the job moving forward. 

Cleveland absolutely has the LG job. No denying that after one game. He'll have his six games now to show he's worth the extension next year now as well or potentially make a point that he deserves a bigger payout elsewhere.

To be honest he’s done everything he’s been asked. Little is Ben Coleman 2.0. What do you do if it comes down to keeping Ridley or Cleev? Bc I agree 100 that he’s got that LG spot locked up regardless of what happens with Little/Robinson.

(11-29-2023, 06:09 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Three penalties really stood out for him. He's been asked to do a lot this year though. Play LT, then play LG, hurts his knee, comes back, plays LG really bad with the 49ers game, the whole line did really though. 

Then, he goes LG last two and a half games, jumps right back into LT mid game this past Sunday. Little has really been [BLEEP] around a lot since being here as a Jaguar. These next six games should give him all the opportunities he needs now to get his [BLEEP] together, show that he's ready for the job moving forward. 

Cleveland absolutely has the LG job. No denying that after one game. He'll have his six games now to show he's worth the extension next year now as well or potentially make a point that he deserves a bigger payout elsewhere.

To be honest he’s done everything he’s been asked. Little is Ben Coleman 2.0. What do you do if it comes down to keeping Ridley or Cleev? Bc I agree 100 that he’s got that LG spot locked up regardless of what happens with Little/Robinson.

I was listening to 1010 briefly yesterday and I forget who, but it was said Ezra made it known he is looking for an opportunity to play Tackle for someone (because he wants that Tackle money).  He may not want to sign here in the offseason.

I don’t feel the strange pick was for this year at all. They aren’t paying Engram the 20 mill he’s due year after next. Tight end is a notoriously slow developing position. I believe he was taken to be groomed to take over for Engram.

(11-29-2023, 06:52 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t feel the strange pick was for this year at all. They aren’t paying Engram the 20 mill he’s due year after next. Tight end is a notoriously slow developing position. I believe he was taken to be groomed to take over for Engram.

It's not notoriously slow - tons of guys come along early- and Strange is nothing like Engram skillset wise 

Strange is supposed to be the inline TE who still can run routes while Engram is the move TE 
Different positions technically

(11-29-2023, 06:37 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 06:09 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]To be honest he’s done everything he’s been asked. Little is Ben Coleman 2.0. What do you do if it comes down to keeping Ridley or Cleev? Bc I agree 100 that he’s got that LG spot locked up regardless of what happens with Little/Robinson.

I was listening to 1010 briefly yesterday and I forget who, but it was said Ezra made it known he is looking for an opportunity to play Tackle for someone (because he wants that Tackle money).  He may not want to sign here in the offseason.

I heard this as well.

(11-29-2023, 07:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 06:37 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]I was listening to 1010 briefly yesterday and I forget who, but it was said Ezra made it known he is looking for an opportunity to play Tackle for someone (because he wants that Tackle money).  He may not want to sign here in the offseason.

I heard this as well.

Never seen anything other than rumor on that 

Wouldn't put too stock much in it right now

I posted PFF grades in on of the mega threads comparing last year's O-Line to this years...  They are similar.

It's good to see that it's obvious that it wasn't the O-Line that was the issue of why this offense was not effective in the first 2 months.  

That leaves other variables that can be discussed at a later time.

Either way, I thought our O-Line did really well over the last 5 games, excluding the 49ers fiasco, of course.

(11-29-2023, 08:34 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I posted PFF grades in on of the mega threads comparing last year's O-Line to this years...  They are similar.

It's good to see that it's obvious that it wasn't the O-Line that was the issue of why this offense was not effective in the first 2 months.  

That leaves other variables that can be discussed at a later time.

Either way, I thought our O-Line did really well over the last 5 games, excluding the 49ers fiasco, of course.

The offense wasn't effective in many of last year's games either. And poor OL play was a factor then too. 
After the SF game:

Reporter to Doug Pederson in Monday Presser:
"What do you have to say about the low depth of target numbers being reported and the lack of throws downfield?"

Doug Pederson:  ...sometimes the protection just isn't there. 

He rarely calls out his OL play, but he did.

That ^ and literally every pundit who reports on this team all ranting about bad protection and run blocking until two weeks ago when one of those things finally started to turn in a better direction should tell you all you need to know about how delusional your "OL wasn't affecting the offense" take is. Nevermind how the absolutely abysmal run blocking is allowing defenses to focus on our singular dimension of effectiveness.

Trevor didn't hit those throws downfield by accident in Houston. He was only pressured on 5.3% of his drop backs with ZERO sacks

By comparison-
Trevor's worst outings this year featured pressure rates as such:

Week 2 Loss to Kansas City : pressured on 35% of attempts 
Week 3 Loss to Houston : Pressured on 19% of attempts
Week 9 Loss to SFO : Pressured on 25% of attempts 

(7 of Lawrence's games this season have featured a pressure rate of 19% or higher - combine that with the lowest pocket time of every top 12 QB in the league besides Tua and the dynamics should be clear - the line is holding him back in weeks they don't protect well - and by extension , downfield throwing has greatly suffered at times)

So after a game where he only saw a 5% pressure rate and threw for 363 yards you want to declare protection was not a factor in the offense's productivity in prior weeks?? 

You are inexorably incorrect. 

The line was bad last year too is not a defense of the position either. 

The line was bad last year - and it also affected the offense's production:
That's why after 11 games last year he had thrown for 2,655 yards 16TDs  (FOUR WINS)
And this year at the same point he has thrown for  2746 yards and 12 TDs  (EIGHT WINS)

Hmmm - remarkably similar despite the first half of this year's games being called by the guy who only called the second half of games last year.

 Only difference seems to be that we won twice as many games this year now that the defense is contributing.

(11-29-2023, 07:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 07:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I heard this as well.

Never seen anything other than rumor on that 

Wouldn't put too stock much in it right now

I heard this right after we traded. It was some talking head. I can't even remember who.  I believe this is more accurate.

Note he was on the bench, being replaced as a starter and it appears the Vikings wanted to get something as they were not going to push to resign him.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ezra-...ound-pick/

(11-30-2023, 12:22 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 07:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Never seen anything other than rumor on that 

Wouldn't put too stock much in it right now

I heard this right after we traded. It was some talking head. I can't even remember who.  I believe this is more accurate.

Note he was on the bench, being replaced as a starter and it appears the Vikings wanted to get something as they were not going to push to resign him.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ezra-...ound-pick/

Right. 

"Some believe he could be a tackle" is a far, far cry from "he may hold out to get tackle money somewhere else"

I think if the Jags can afford to offer him a deal commensurate with his play at LG to continue playing guard, he'll take it. 

I acknowledge the possibility exists he may try to see if there is a place for him in the tackle market, but he looks like a good enough guard to earn a pretty nice guard contract and doing that within this ascending offense is likely going to be attractive to him.

(11-29-2023, 06:09 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Three penalties really stood out for him. He's been asked to do a lot this year though. Play LT, then play LG, hurts his knee, comes back, plays LG really bad with the 49ers game, the whole line did really though. 

Then, he goes LG last two and a half games, jumps right back into LT mid game this past Sunday. Little has really been [BLEEP] around a lot since being here as a Jaguar. These next six games should give him all the opportunities he needs now to get his [BLEEP] together, show that he's ready for the job moving forward. 

Cleveland absolutely has the LG job. No denying that after one game. He'll have his six games now to show he's worth the extension next year now as well or potentially make a point that he deserves a bigger payout elsewhere.

To be honest he’s done everything he’s been asked. Little is Ben Coleman 2.0. What do you do if it comes down to keeping Ridley or Cleev? Bc I agree 100 that he’s got that LG spot locked up regardless of what happens with Little/Robinson.

I think they'll figure out a way to keep Josh Allen, Calvin Ridley and Ezra Cleveland on the roster next year. It's a tall order but they can always move things around and cash out some of these contracts up front. 

I think winning also helps. The culture here also helps. I think the goal is the draft as always though. Baalke or whomever in charge of that in 2024 needs to start restocking the roster with ready to go guys more than likely instead of wait and see guys that take two, three years to come along.

(11-30-2023, 09:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2023, 06:09 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]To be honest he’s done everything he’s been asked. Little is Ben Coleman 2.0. What do you do if it comes down to keeping Ridley or Cleev? Bc I agree 100 that he’s got that LG spot locked up regardless of what happens with Little/Robinson.

I think they'll figure out a way to keep Josh Allen, Calvin Ridley and Ezra Cleveland on the roster next year. It's a tall order but they can always move things around and cash out some of these contracts up front. 

I think winning also helps. The culture here also helps. I think the goal is the draft as always though. Baalke or whomever in charge of that in 2024 needs to start restocking the roster with ready to go guys more than likely instead of wait and see guys that take two, three years to come along.

I think they could keep these three players but I fear they will have to cut a few of three guys that are under contract but expensive: Cam, Scherff or D. Williams. The O-Line will again be subject to a shuffle it seems in the offseason. Shatley is also a free agent.

(11-30-2023, 10:23 AM)Holger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2023, 09:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I think they'll figure out a way to keep Josh Allen, Calvin Ridley and Ezra Cleveland on the roster next year. It's a tall order but they can always move things around and cash out some of these contracts up front. 

I think winning also helps. The culture here also helps. I think the goal is the draft as always though. Baalke or whomever in charge of that in 2024 needs to start restocking the roster with ready to go guys more than likely instead of wait and see guys that take two, three years to come along.

I think they could keep these three players but I fear they will have to cut a few of three guys that are under contract but expensive: Cam, Scherff or D. Williams. The O-Line will again be subject to a shuffle it seems in the offseason. Shatley is also a free agent.

There's always going to be some degree of turnover and shuffling with the roster. Just how it works. I think it's very likely you won't see:

1. Cam Robinson
2. Jamal Agnew
3. K'Lavon Chaisson


Those three players I feel like we'll not see back for sure. Due to cap, injuries and low performance. I think we might see some trades on our end with some of our players as well. Just depends. I think the obvious keys are getting the interiors fixed on both sides of the line though. That's a must do. 

If you can improve your interior presence on both sides? This team can easily take the next step up with the truly elite teams and they can afford to lose a secondary player on defense or a skill position player on offense because you're now increasing time in the pocket for Lawrence to be successful while also shortening the time your opponent has to read and react.

(11-30-2023, 10:36 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2023, 10:23 AM)Holger Wrote: [ -> ]I think they could keep these three players but I fear they will have to cut a few of three guys that are under contract but expensive: Cam, Scherff or D. Williams. The O-Line will again be subject to a shuffle it seems in the offseason. Shatley is also a free agent.

There's always going to be some degree of turnover and shuffling with the roster. Just how it works. I think it's very likely you won't see:

1. Cam Robinson
2. Jamal Agnew
3. K'Lavon Chaisson


Those three players I feel like we'll not see back for sure. Due to cap, injuries and low performance. I think we might see some trades on our end with some of our players as well. Just depends. I think the obvious keys are getting the interiors fixed on both sides of the line though. That's a must do. 

If you can improve your interior presence on both sides? This team can easily take the next step up with the truly elite teams and they can afford to lose a secondary player on defense or a skill position player on offense because you're now increasing time in the pocket for Lawrence to be successful while also shortening the time your opponent has to read and react.

Last offseason I thought the same about Agnew, and also RRH. It will be interesting to see what they do. Its a shame that we have a need at center. I am not so sure about IDL. We have quite the nice rotation with RRH, Fatukasi and Hamilton if all are well, plus Lacy has flashed a bit as a 4th option. I would love to see them draft a WR early. Good news most of the defense should stay the same, only D. Williams and Herndon are question marks.