Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(01-11-2024, 10:52 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]When you can’t run the ball it creates massive problems that play calling can’t fix.

Exactly

If you call plays better, you can fool the defense which is what you are trying to do. That helps the running game. I’ve watched some of the best offenses going back to the redskins when they had monk, sanders, and Clark. I know offenses. I’ve watched the fun and gun with the gators and the great ball coach. This garbage play calling might fool some of you, but it’s not good enough or the jags would have made the play offs. When this team played with the lead, the wins were stacking up. That helped the defense. You have to score touch downs. I guess the 1000 wr screens a game that mostly didn’t work were more examples of great play calling. You have to pass the ball in the mid range. I understand the problems with the offense interior line. For some reason, the jags were able to overcome that in 2022 but not in 2023. Smh

(01-12-2024, 12:46 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]If you call plays better, you can fool the defense which is what you are trying to do. That helps the running game. I’ve watched some of the best offenses going back to the redskins when they had monk, sanders, and Clark. I know offenses. I’ve watched the fun and gun with the gators and the great ball coach. This garbage play calling might fool some of you, but it’s not good enough or the jags would have made the play offs. When this team played with the lead, the wins were stacking up. That helped the defense. You have to score touch downs. I guess the 1000 wr screens a game that mostly didn’t work were more examples of great play calling. You have to pass the ball in the mid range. I understand the problems with the offense interior line. For some reason, the jags were able to overcome that in 2022 but not in 2023. Smh

Blocking helps the running game, period. When the other team knows you can’t run the ball, all your deep thinking above goes out the window. This is professional football, you aren’t fooling a pro D with “mid range” passing when you can’t run, how is this not obvious to you?

A wise person once said: "Players, not play." That pretty much sums up my opinion. While it would be great to have a genius play-caller, other teams will consistently beat you if they know you are unable to run the ball. Until the team does something to improve the PLAYERS on the interior of the offensive line, this team will continue to be no better than they were this season. Can't blame the injuries to Lawrence and others for the team's downfall, although this naturally was a factor. All teams have injuries and the best teams are able to overcome them. The Jaguars were not due to no running game and poor depth on the roster. Most of this can be blamed primarily on one person and we all know who that is! That's why I take exception to those who say Shad Khan is a great owner. Sure, I appreciate the fact he spends money on free agents and doesn't move the team to London, or elsewhere. But is it asking too much for him to intervene when the individual primarily responsible for securing talent is an abject failure! Fire Baalke!

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(01-12-2024, 09:09 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]A wise person once said: "Players, not play." That pretty much sums up my opinion. While it would be great to have a genius play-caller, other teams will consistently beat you if they know you are unable to run the ball. Until the team does something to improve the PLAYERS on the interior of the offensive line, this team will continue to be no better than they were this season. Can't blame the injuries to Lawrence and others for the team's downfall, although this naturally was a factor. All teams have injuries and the best teams are able to overcome them. The Jaguars were not due to no running game and poor depth on the roster. Most of this can be blamed primarily on one person and we all know who that is! That's why I take exception to those who say Shad Khan is a great owner. Sure, I appreciate the fact he spends money on free agents and doesn't move the team to London, or elsewhere. But is it asking too much for him to intervene when the individual primarily responsible for securing talent is an abject failure! Fire Baalke!

---

Correction: "Players, not plays." I'm obviously not that wise!

(01-12-2024, 09:37 AM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure if anyone has already mentioned it, so forgive me if so, but I also feel the loss of Jim Bob Cooter really hurt.

Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.  That said, there’s plenty of other cooters out there.  You’ll be alright.

(01-10-2024, 06:03 PM)Marcos25067 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-10-2024, 05:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The age of Madden football games giving folks an unearned feeling of offensive knowledge - combined with the current lust for instant gratification and blame assignment/cancel-culture made him (Taylor) the easiest scapegoat for those unwilling or unable to actually assess the problems.

To me the real issue is two-fold:

• The complacency or low priority given to the OL personnel improvement 
  
• The doubling down on being an almost 100% ZBS run scheme that removed from candidacy multiple OL draft picks and free agents better suited to a power run game
  

They could have prioritized the line and they could have done so without limiting their scope to players of certain traits. They (Baalke/Pederson) elected not to do these things and the combination of those decisions weakened their offense more than they thought possible. 

Taylor was handcuffed to varying degrees throughout the season by the result of this stuff ^ giving him an ineffective run game and a shrunken passing playbook that required too many quick passes with limited opportunities to look deep.
Now -  Couple that with a 3rd year QB who can't help but want to look deep anyway - throwing off the timing of the easy stuff underneath at times - then just for good measure - mix in 4 injuries to said QB -  and here we are. 

But the two bullet points above are the root issue IMO to the 2023 Jags offense never realizing potential.

And even with all of this they still finished 13th in total offense, cleary the scheme is not that bad, and even if it was, its Doug system and Press is just calling the plays( with Doug imput, may I add).

This year I feel like we moved the ball up and down the field on a lot of good defenses, if not for the turnovers we could be even higher

I've been meaning to look up the ridiculous number of turnovers we had within the opponents 40 yard line. It has to be insane. So many drives began with a methodical movement into field goal range or the fringes of it, only to be killed with a turnover. 

I know there were 8 INTs on the opponents side of midfield and at least 4 fumbles lost there too. 
Would probably have to scour the play-by-play to get more precise info than that.

(01-11-2024, 09:00 PM)Marcos25067 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/DylanEveryday/status...4384648330


Do you guys think there is any traction to this?

That's interesting. But if Doug isn't firing Press, why would he take a job as OC of Ohio St when he's already an OC of a NFL team?

(01-11-2024, 10:04 PM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-11-2024, 06:15 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]You missed the part where we suck more than most other teams, maybe the most suck.

Also skewed stat, only one single team each year could possibly do that lol, try doing top 5 or top 10 or something that makes sense bruh.

(01-11-2024, 09:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Your "eye test" only lets you see what you want to see.

May I ask why you continue to believe that Doug didn't get fired because of Press Taylor? Ask ANY Philly fan, it was because Doug promoted Press every year and once he had the chance to install him as OC the owner said naaah no one on this staff is good enough to promote, Doug started to be a crybaby for Press... so he got the axe. That's what happened. 

Why do you believe otherwise?

Because the situation was more complex than that. The owner and GM wanted contol of Doug's staff.  He wasn't allowed to replace Jim Swartz as DC when he wanted to. Two years prior they pressured him to fire Mike Groh and Carson Walch then made him reverse his public statement that they would be back and fire them when he didn't want to. Then the next season when he went without an OC, they forced him to have Marty Mornhinweg and Rick Scangarello as "Senior Assistants" on his staff. That resulted in him (Doug) being forced to consider giving up play calling duties when he didn't want to (what everyone is [BLEEP] about him doing here they forced him to do there!). The final nail was when Jalen Hurts ourperformed the owner's Golden Boy and won the starting job so Carson Wentz went crying to the owner and GM and forced the question on Pederson. It was pretty clear that Pederson was done with them meddling in his staff decisions and it was best for all that he move on. It wasn't just about Press Taylor, it was about all of Doug's assistants and the owner and GM meddling in his choices for several years. Doug had threatened to leave earlier, but the Eagles leadership didn't take it seriously.

Troy Aikman had a nice interview about it there after and his conclusion was that the Hurts/Wentz problem was the key driver in Pederson departure.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3066...ources-say  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2926...to-fire-oc

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/troy-...son-wentz/

All this "It's Press Taylor's fault!" stuff is bull [BLEEP] propoganda; it was Lurie and Roseman.

Can we PLEASE be a smarter/less lazy fan base than blaming play calling. Especially when we all see our deficiencies clear as day. This isn’t that hard.

(01-12-2024, 09:59 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]Can we PLEASE be a smarter/less lazy fan base than blaming play calling. Especially when we all see our deficiencies clear as day.  This isn’t that hard.

There's always gonna be folks swinging away at the low hanging fruit and never bothering to look above it.

(01-12-2024, 10:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 09:59 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]Can we PLEASE be a smarter/less lazy fan base than blaming play calling. Especially when we all see our deficiencies clear as day.  This isn’t that hard.

There's always gonna be folks swinging away at the low hanging fruit and never bothering to look above it.

Play calling is easy to blame when a team struggles. I know I've been critical of it at points this year, had we not had the miscues and stupid plays I think Press would be getting a lot less heat. But the simple fact that the plays didn't work makes people understandably say "oh he should have called this play instead!"

Every team in the league can point to their play callers and questions decisions when plays break down. 

Had we not had all the stupid self inflicted mistakes this year Press would be a non-issue. He was fine. Did he make a few questionable calls? Sure, so did Doug last year, and so did Trevor with a few of his audibles. It happens.

For all the complaining, we had a 4000 yard passer (back to back for the first time ever), a 1000 yard WR everyone wants to kick to the curb, a 1000 yard RB behind an abysmal OL, and a TE with the 2nd most catches in NFL history among other records he broke. And likely would have had 2 WRs over 1k if Kirk stayed healthy.

(01-12-2024, 08:18 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 12:46 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]If you call plays better, you can fool the defense which is what you are trying to do. That helps the running game. I’ve watched some of the best offenses going back to the redskins when they had monk, sanders, and Clark. I know offenses. I’ve watched the fun and gun with the gators and the great ball coach. This garbage play calling might fool some of you, but it’s not good enough or the jags would have made the play offs. When this team played with the lead, the wins were stacking up. That helped the defense. You have to score touch downs. I guess the 1000 wr screens a game that mostly didn’t work were more examples of great play calling. You have to pass the ball in the mid range. I understand the problems with the offense interior line. For some reason, the jags were able to overcome that in 2022 but not in 2023. Smh

Blocking helps the running game, period. When the other team knows you can’t run the ball, all your deep thinking above goes out the window. This is professional football, you aren’t fooling a pro D with “mid range” passing when you can’t run, how is this not obvious to you?

It's amazing how people cannot mentally absorb this very straightforward and simple idea- not being able to run kills everything on offense.  The response seems to be, "well, why don't they throw the ball instead?"  And then when that doesn't work, it's "why didn't they throw it better?"

I'll try again.   The difference between running successfully and not running successfully is 2nd and 6 vs 2nd and 12.  When 2nd and 12 happens over and over, we have to do something else.  But the defense knows this.  So they pin their ears back and rush the passer.  Now, when they do that, there's a lot less time for pass patterns to develop downfield, or for the QB to go through progressions.  It's going to be one read and throw it.  Because the QB has no time to do anything else.  And because the defense knows this, they don't need to give any cushion to the WRs.  They can cover tight.  And they make sure to cover the checkdown, because they know the QB is going to have to check it down.  At this point, can't run the ball, and WRs aren't getting open.  Checkmate.  All because we can't run the ball.  It's like boxing with one hand tied behind your back.  

And at this point, there's nothing the play caller can do.  The offense has no balance, and they can't set up play action, and when they do try to run the ball, they wind up with 2nd and long.  

Weak Center and OGs = handcuffed play caller.  

This is a really simple concept, but a lot of people on this message board can't seem to grasp it.

(01-12-2024, 10:22 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 08:18 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]Blocking helps the running game, period. When the other team knows you can’t run the ball, all your deep thinking above goes out the window. This is professional football, you aren’t fooling a pro D with “mid range” passing when you can’t run, how is this not obvious to you?

It's amazing how people cannot mentally absorb this very straightforward and simple idea- not being able to run kills everything on offense.  The response seems to be, "well, why don't they throw the ball instead?"  And then when that doesn't work, it's "why didn't they throw it better?"

I'll try again.   The difference between running successfully and not running successfully is 2nd and 6 vs 2nd and 12.  When 2nd and 12 happens over and over, we have to do something else.  But the defense knows this.  So they pin their ears back and rush the passer.  Now, when they do that, there's a lot less time for pass patterns to develop downfield, or for the QB to go through progressions.  It's going to be one read and throw it.  Because the QB has no time to do anything else.  And because the defense knows this, they don't need to give any cushion to the WRs.  They can cover tight.  And they make sure to cover the checkdown, because they know the QB is going to have to check it down.  At this point, can't run the ball, and WRs aren't getting open.  Checkmate.  All because we can't run the ball.  It's like boxing with one hand tied behind your back.  

And at this point, there's nothing the play caller can do.  The offense has no balance, and they can't set up play action, and when they do try to run the ball, they wind up with 2nd and long.  

Weak Center and OGs = handcuffed play caller.  

This is a really simple concept, but a lot of people on this message board can't seem to grasp it.

Why does it have to be one way or the other?

It's both.

But a good coach changes scheme when he doesn't have the horses to run anymore.

Bottom line? Trent Baalke is what has hampered us. If Doug n Press had the horses they'd be fine. But it irks me that they didn't change a thing and just kept saying execution. Dude, scrubs can't execute your gameplan.. so change it!

(01-12-2024, 10:26 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 10:22 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It's amazing how people cannot mentally absorb this very straightforward and simple idea- not being able to run kills everything on offense.  The response seems to be, "well, why don't they throw the ball instead?"  And then when that doesn't work, it's "why didn't they throw it better?"

I'll try again.   The difference between running successfully and not running successfully is 2nd and 6 vs 2nd and 12.  When 2nd and 12 happens over and over, we have to do something else.  But the defense knows this.  So they pin their ears back and rush the passer.  Now, when they do that, there's a lot less time for pass patterns to develop downfield, or for the QB to go through progressions.  It's going to be one read and throw it.  Because the QB has no time to do anything else.  And because the defense knows this, they don't need to give any cushion to the WRs.  They can cover tight.  And they make sure to cover the checkdown, because they know the QB is going to have to check it down.  At this point, can't run the ball, and WRs aren't getting open.  Checkmate.  All because we can't run the ball.  It's like boxing with one hand tied behind your back.  

And at this point, there's nothing the play caller can do.  The offense has no balance, and they can't set up play action, and when they do try to run the ball, they wind up with 2nd and long.  

Weak Center and OGs = handcuffed play caller.  

This is a really simple concept, but a lot of people on this message board can't seem to grasp it.

Why does it have to be one way or the other?

It's both.

But a good coach changes scheme when he doesn't have the horses to run anymore.

Bottom line? Trent Baalke is what has hampered us. If Doug n Press had the horses they'd be fine. But it irks me that they didn't change a thing and just kept saying execution. Dude, scrubs can't execute your gameplan.. so change it!

Changes his scheme to what?  If you can't run the ball, there isn't any "scheme" that will consistently fool an NFL defense.

If you have to box with your right arm tied behind your back, do you think you can just scheme up a way to make it work with your left arm only?

(01-12-2024, 10:31 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 10:26 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]Why does it have to be one way or the other?

It's both.

But a good coach changes scheme when he doesn't have the horses to run anymore.

Bottom line? Trent Baalke is what has hampered us. If Doug n Press had the horses they'd be fine. But it irks me that they didn't change a thing and just kept saying execution. Dude, scrubs can't execute your gameplan.. so change it!

Changes his scheme to what?  If you can't run the ball, there isn't any "scheme" that will consistently fool an NFL defense.

If you have to box with your right arm tied behind your back, do you think you can just scheme up a way to make it work with your left arm only?

I'm not making millions. Those guys are, they should have tried something. They were 8-3, 99% chance of playoffs.

Like I've said, in a perfect world the scheme works. But once it fails you have to adjust. They didn't even try. Just kept saying execution, execution.

(01-12-2024, 09:45 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-10-2024, 06:03 PM)Marcos25067 Wrote: [ -> ]And even with all of this they still finished 13th in total offense, cleary the scheme is not that bad, and even if it was, its Doug system and Press is just calling the plays( with Doug imput, may I add).

This year I feel like we moved the ball up and down the field on a lot of good defenses, if not for the turnovers we could be even higher

I've been meaning to look up the ridiculous number of turnovers we had within the opponents 40 yard line. It has to be insane. So many drives began with a methodical movement into field goal range or the fringes of it, only to be killed with a turnover. 

I know there were 8 INTs on the opponents side of midfield and at least 4 fumbles lost there too. 
Would probably have to scour the play-by-play to get more precise info than that.

I looked at the Browns game log days ago where Trevor had 3 picks.  I didn't look at the fumbles so feel free to double back.  Anyway, two of those picks were deep in Browns territory at least one was a deep bomb (de facto punt).  1 was on our side of the 50 at the 48 yard line.

I don't recall Trevor throwing a pick deep in our own territory this year unless it was some fluke tipped ball.  Not that it needs to be rehashed, but since Bortles had been brought up earlier in the week, Bortles routinely threw picks that were 100% his fault deep in our own territory.  Trevor's biggest issues are the fumbles and hero ball as you say.  Despite having the high interception number tied to his neck this year, he is actually pretty responsible when he puts the ball in the air.

(01-12-2024, 10:35 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 10:31 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Changes his scheme to what?  If you can't run the ball, there isn't any "scheme" that will consistently fool an NFL defense.

If you have to box with your right arm tied behind your back, do you think you can just scheme up a way to make it work with your left arm only?

I'm not making millions. Those guys are, they should have tried something. They were 8-3, 99% chance of playoffs.

Like I've said, in a perfect world the scheme works. But once it fails you have to adjust. They didn't even try. Just kept saying execution, execution.

So your response is, "I don't know, they should have thought of something."  

I've already explained to you, when the running game doesn't work, the entire offense doesn't work.  There's no "scheme" that you can employ that will bring success.  Because not having a running game kills the passing game as well.  And I explained to you why that is.

(01-12-2024, 10:35 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 10:31 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Changes his scheme to what?  If you can't run the ball, there isn't any "scheme" that will consistently fool an NFL defense.

If you have to box with your right arm tied behind your back, do you think you can just scheme up a way to make it work with your left arm only?

I'm not making millions. Those guys are, they should have tried something. They were 8-3, 99% chance of playoffs.

Like I've said, in a perfect world the scheme works. But once it fails you have to adjust. They didn't even try. Just kept saying execution, execution.

They can't radically change the playbook midseason - they spent months installing the intended version -  and there are only so many ways to use smoke and mirrors to overcome an OL ranked in the bottom five in every metric imaginable.

(01-12-2024, 11:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 10:35 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not making millions. Those guys are, they should have tried something. They were 8-3, 99% chance of playoffs.

Like I've said, in a perfect world the scheme works. But once it fails you have to adjust. They didn't even try. Just kept saying execution, execution.

So your response is, "I don't know, they should have thought of something."  

I've already explained to you, when the running game doesn't work, the entire offense doesn't work.  There's no "scheme" that you can employ that will bring success.  Because not having a running game kills the passing game as well.  And I explained to you why that is.

So you think complacency is the answer? We would get fired for failing this bad and we don't make 7 figures to play a game.

I just think some urgency is warranted in their fantasy job while still getting paid more money per year than we make in a lifetime.

Is that wrong?

They didn't even try. They were just like whatever. And you could see it in Pedersons body language. "Oh well I'm gonna get my millions".

(01-12-2024, 11:18 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-12-2024, 11:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So your response is, "I don't know, they should have thought of something."  

I've already explained to you, when the running game doesn't work, the entire offense doesn't work.  There's no "scheme" that you can employ that will bring success.  Because not having a running game kills the passing game as well.  And I explained to you why that is.

So you think complacency is the answer? We would get fired for failing this bad and we don't make 7 figures to play a game.

I just think some urgency is warranted in their fantasy job while still getting paid more money per year than we make in a lifetime.

Is that wrong?

They didn't even try. They were just like whatever. And you could see it in Pedersons body language. "Oh well I'm gonna get my millions".

Watch this video from the 5:20 spot.  They say exactly what I am saying.  If you can't run the ball, there's not a whole lot a play caller can do to fix it.  Especially when you have goal to go, inside the opponent's 10 yard line, and the field is compressed.  If you can't run the ball in that situation, it's very hard to get a touchdown.  

Go to 18:03 in the video below and on 4th and goal on the 1 yard line, watch Luke Fortner get PANCAKED.  

"If you can't run the ball... no matter who's calling plays, it's pointless."

What Needs to Change Moving Forward? | Huddle Up | Jacksonville Jaguars (youtube.com)