(01-28-2024, 11:43 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]If we drafted a DT in the 1st would yall rather Jer'Zhan Newton or T'Vondre Sweat? I think Newton has the potential to be one of the next up and coming 3 techs in a 4 man front or 5 tech in a 3 down lineman. I also think Sweat can be one of the next up and coming great NTs like a Dexter Lawrence. Which would you guys rather if we went DT in the 1st?
I'd prefer Newton over Sweat. They are different players with Sweat more the run stuffer and Newton the inside pass rusher. I would worry about Sweat's weight and conditioning; Mehji Becton was huge when drafted high by the Jets and ballooned up to 400 pounds at one point. Even though he lost significant weight last season, he performed poorly. Newton is the much safer pick, but he'd need a bigger tackle playing next to him. Seems like finding a big run stuffing nose tackle later in the draft or free agency would be easier than finding an interior DL capable of double digit sacks as well as being adequate against the run.
(01-29-2024, 01:40 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-28-2024, 11:43 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]If we drafted a DT in the 1st would yall rather Jer'Zhan Newton or T'Vondre Sweat? I think Newton has the potential to be one of the next up and coming 3 techs in a 4 man front or 5 tech in a 3 down lineman. I also think Sweat can be one of the next up and coming great NTs like a Dexter Lawrence. Which would you guys rather if we went DT in the 1st?
I'd prefer Newton over Sweat. They are different players with Sweat more the run stuffer and Newton the inside pass rusher. I would worry about Sweat's weight and conditioning; Mehji Becton was huge when drafted high by the Jets and ballooned up to 400 pounds at one point. Even though he lost significant weight last season, he performed poorly. Newton is the much safer pick, but he'd need a bigger tackle playing next to him. Seems like finding a big run stuffing nose tackle later in the draft or free agency would be easier than finding an interior DL capable of double digit sacks as well as being adequate against the run.
Agreed. A little surprised seeing Sweat mocked to us inside the top 20 there by Bucky Brooks. I have Sweat as a good player, but, not a guy that you would consider a top 20 prospect. I would consider him in RD2 though, for sure.
Newton would also be my preference. Really looking forward to seeing how he moves at the combine and during his Pro Day. I think he would be a guy that makes up for missing out on Kancey last year.
I really think Baalke has to make a decision though and fast once March arrives and free agency starts. I don't think they can run the risk of playing the wait and see game in April and if they feel confident that they can sign up at least two defensive lineman and two offensive lineman before the draft they probably need to go for it and make it happen.
Would be able to breath a lot easier going into April if they're able to sign up some of those guys I listed earlier. If you want a run stuffer? Sign D.J Reader. If you want a well rounded veteran that can move around? Sign Calais Campbell. If you're looking to cement a spot for more than three years and want to splurge? Open up the checkbook for Christian Wilkins.
Fletcher Cox won a SB with Doug Pederson...and he got 6 sacks last season from the DT position. He's better in every way than Foley...and could probably be had for $20 million over 2 years. Defensive leader in the locker room...
Would move on from Fotukasi in a second if we could get Fletcher Cox. He's old..but the idea is for him to hold the line while the Jags draft his replacement in the 3rd round.
We lacked interior pass rush before Hamilton ever got hurt. We have lacked interior pass rush since Malik Jackson and CC. Interior pass rush has been a need on this team for years.
(02-23-2024, 10:08 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW
There was a thread on this started back in November when it was becoming clear how much we missed Hamilton and lacked push in the middle
https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=38987
Shipley said Hamilton was arguably the best defensive player in camp.
He was in for a fantastic year. If he can get back to his camp self (and Shipley seems to think he can), the Jags will finally have that interior pass rusher.
Now that’s not to say they won’t upgrade the interior pass rush in the draft and FA but this regime tends to stick with their own guys… for better or worse (most of the time worse).
(02-23-2024, 11:52 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 10:08 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW
There was a thread on this started back in November when it was becoming clear how much we missed Hamilton and lacked push in the middle
https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=38987
Shipley said Hamilton was arguably the best defensive player in camp.
He was in for a fantastic year. If he can get back to his camp self (and Shipley seems to think he can), the Jags will finally have that interior pass rusher.
Now that’s not to say they won’t upgrade the interior pass rush in the draft and FA but this regime tends to stick with their own guys… for better or worse (most of the time worse).
He was playing against Fortner and guys who couldn't beat out Fortner.
(02-23-2024, 12:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 11:52 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Shipley said Hamilton was arguably the best defensive player in camp.
He was in for a fantastic year. If he can get back to his camp self (and Shipley seems to think he can), the Jags will finally have that interior pass rusher.
Now that’s not to say they won’t upgrade the interior pass rush in the draft and FA but this regime tends to stick with their own guys… for better or worse (most of the time worse).
He was playing against Fortner and guys who couldn't beat out Fortner.
I think I'd probably stand a chance of beating Fortner. He was just so bad. I mean, historically bad.
(02-23-2024, 12:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 11:52 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Shipley said Hamilton was arguably the best defensive player in camp.
He was in for a fantastic year. If he can get back to his camp self (and Shipley seems to think he can), the Jags will finally have that interior pass rusher.
Now that’s not to say they won’t upgrade the interior pass rush in the draft and FA but this regime tends to stick with their own guys… for better or worse (most of the time worse).
He was playing against Fortner and guys who couldn't beat out Fortner.
It was also during joint practices
(02-23-2024, 12:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 11:52 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Shipley said Hamilton was arguably the best defensive player in camp.
He was in for a fantastic year. If he can get back to his camp self (and Shipley seems to think he can), the Jags will finally have that interior pass rusher.
Now that’s not to say they won’t upgrade the interior pass rush in the draft and FA but this regime tends to stick with their own guys… for better or worse (most of the time worse).
He was playing against Fortner and guys who couldn't beat out Fortner.
That's a fair point. I do recall seeing him knife into the backfield though against either the Dolphins or one of those preseason opponents a decent amount of times.
That's my fear though. The hedging our bets approach with Baalke. You still need to keep backfilling the roster with talent. Basically, somebody just needs to put a memo out next to his morning cup of coffee to remind him:
"Hey, you know how you like to draft RB's and LB's every year? Even though you already invested at this position with free agency signings and draft picks used just last year and the year before?
Okay, cool practice, I am a double dipper, sometimes triple dipper myself, big fan of dipping my nuggets in honey mustard on the first bite, then going in for the smokey BBQ sauce on the second bite, etc.
Okay, listen, anyway, take that SAME principle? SAME principle, and, just apply it to the IOL and IDL group this year, got it?"
(02-23-2024, 01:13 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 12:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He was playing against Fortner and guys who couldn't beat out Fortner.
It was also during joint practices
Was he smoking joints during practice? Because he sure got smoked out there when he could finally play on Sunday's.
Bu-dum-tis.
(02-23-2024, 12:21 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 11:52 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Shipley said Hamilton was arguably the best defensive player in camp.
He was in for a fantastic year. If he can get back to his camp self (and Shipley seems to think he can), the Jags will finally have that interior pass rusher.
Now that’s not to say they won’t upgrade the interior pass rush in the draft and FA but this regime tends to stick with their own guys… for better or worse (most of the time worse).
He was playing against Fortner and guys who couldn't beat out Fortner.
damning praise right there.
(01-27-2024, 11:25 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2024, 09:42 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]We already knew this, but they desperately need to get this duo some help.
https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...0114765953
Well, according to Baalke, we have guys already. Coaching staff just needs to develop them.
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No kidding. Imagine if Baalke (#1 GM) would team up with Andy Reid (#1 HC). That combination would be lethal
(02-23-2024, 01:54 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2024, 11:25 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Well, according to Baalke, we have guys already. Coaching staff just needs to develop them.
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No kidding. Imagine if Baalke (#1 GM) would team up with Andy Reid (#1 HC). That combination would be lethal
Would love to see Big Red become Big Teal and fighting Lawrence for his Chicken Nuggies in every commercial.
(02-23-2024, 11:49 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We lacked interior pass rush before Hamilton ever got hurt. We have lacked interior pass rush since Malik Jackson and CC. Interior pass rush has been a need on this team for years.
Yes
Which is why i said "missed Hamilton AND lacked push in the middle"
There are 5 threads like this one on the board dating back to "sacksonville"
We haven't had interior pressure worth a damn for at least 4 seasons, prollly 5
(02-24-2024, 09:10 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2024, 11:49 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We lacked interior pass rush before Hamilton ever got hurt. We have lacked interior pass rush since Malik Jackson and CC. Interior pass rush has been a need on this team for years.
Yes
Which is why i said "missed Hamilton AND lacked push in the middle"
There are 5 threads like this one on the board dating back to "sacksonville"
We haven't had interior pressure worth a damn for at least 4 seasons, prollly 5
Glad we agree, his run D was missed just as much as his push up the middle. Either way, even if we dont get him back to 100% what he was before, maybe we can get him to 80 or 90% what he was. I dont think I ever seen a DT get pushed around and manhandled the way he was last year. He was a shell of his former self and I think the biggest reason for the collapse of the D overall. Campbell being a close 2nd as he was pretty bad as well after the injury, need both back to what they were before injury. Campbell was a guy you could put on a island in 2022 and was ascending to one of the best corners in the league, top 10 easily. Not to mention the injury to Cisco, injuries decimated our defense last year. Health to the D alone would make our D a huge improvement from last year.
Im hoping we sign one of DJ Reader, Grover Stewart, or Daquan Jones
(02-24-2024, 09:27 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Im hoping we sign one of DJ Reader, Grover Stewart, or Daquan Jones
Grover Stewart would be my top choice, but I believe the Colts will re-sign him. He was 3rd last season in run-stop win rate and double-teamed over 50% of the time. At 30 years of age, he still should have at least 3 very good years ahead of him. No doubt, the Jaguars would have to "overpay" to land him like they did for Christian Kirk, but that turned out very well. Reader will likely end up getting paid more than the Jaguars can afford due to needing to pay Allen and likely Calvin Ridley. Jones is the most likely pick since he still is excellent as a run-stopper at 32 years of age. I'd strongly consider signing him and then drafting McKinley Jackson if he is available at the end of round 3 with their compensatory pick. Jackson is one of the underrated players in the draft since he doesn't get sacks. His ability to demand double-teams, however, will enable the pass rushers to be more effective.
(02-24-2024, 12:27 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2024, 09:27 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Im hoping we sign one of DJ Reader, Grover Stewart, or Daquan Jones
Grover Stewart would be my top choice, but I believe the Colts will re-sign him. He was 3rd last season in run-stop win rate and double-teamed over 50% of the time. At 30 years of age, he still should have at least 3 very good years ahead of him. No doubt, the Jaguars would have to "overpay" to land him like they did for Christian Kirk, but that turned out very well. Reader will likely end up getting paid more than the Jaguars can afford due to needing to pay Allen and likely Calvin Ridley. Jones is the most likely pick since he still is excellent as a run-stopper at 32 years of age. I'd strongly consider signing him and then drafting McKinley Jackson if he is available at the end of round 3 with their compensatory pick. Jackson is one of the underrated players in the draft since he doesn't get sacks. His ability to demand double-teams, however, will enable the pass rushers to be more effective.
I like Stewart as well but he wasnt as good after his suspension for PED's so thats a bit of a concern.
(02-24-2024, 09:27 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Im hoping we sign one of DJ Reader, Grover Stewart, or Daquan Jones
I like Reader. I am a little greedy though and maybe over zealous but I would like for them to heavily pursue Christian Wilkins if Miami doesn't do something to keep him and Robert Hunt on the other side of the ball.
Wonder what it would take to pry Derrick Brown out of Carolina?