(03-05-2024, 03:05 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 02:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Mitchell and DeJean. Only 2 I'd feel good with at 17
With Allen being tagged it nearly guarantees that Ridley is probably bolting to the highest bidder next week.
WR and CB are the positions to watch closely now at 17, unless they bargain bin a good WR or CB next week to supplement for the losses of Ridley and Williams.
Personally? I think finding a CB in free agency is more likely to be decent enough to replace Williams in 2024, as Tyson Campbell is "technically" the CB1 here on our defense.
I think WR has to be the play at 17. Has to be. It's a deep class, but, the top tier guys there are must have's in my opinion. Wouldn't mind a trade up for Rome Odunze but you have to find a willing trade partner for that, if they stand there at 17? Brian Thomas Jr. would be ideal, but, if he's gone?
I would rather them trade down. Not high on Adonai Mitchell personally.
Yeah if Mitchell is there I think they take him, if not I think they go Thomas Jr. If he's gone I could see then going oline
(03-05-2024, 03:36 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 03:05 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]With Allen being tagged it nearly guarantees that Ridley is probably bolting to the highest bidder next week.
WR and CB are the positions to watch closely now at 17, unless they bargain bin a good WR or CB next week to supplement for the losses of Ridley and Williams.
Personally? I think finding a CB in free agency is more likely to be decent enough to replace Williams in 2024, as Tyson Campbell is "technically" the CB1 here on our defense.
I think WR has to be the play at 17. Has to be. It's a deep class, but, the top tier guys there are must have's in my opinion. Wouldn't mind a trade up for Rome Odunze but you have to find a willing trade partner for that, if they stand there at 17? Brian Thomas Jr. would be ideal, but, if he's gone?
I would rather them trade down. Not high on Adonai Mitchell personally.
Yeah if Mitchell is there I think they take him, if not I think they go Thomas Jr. If he's gone I could see then going oline
I don't know how I feel about Adonai Mitchell. Didn't seem very productive in college. Had only a few good games here and there. Just not sure he's somebody I take with the 17th selection.
If it's not Odunze or Thomas Jr. I would take a chance with a trade down, pick-up an extra 2nd or 3rd and take the best interior player available on either side of the football.
RD2 gives me more chances at a WR that maybe makes more sense. Maybe you can grab a guy like Xavier Leggett at that point, maybe Ladd McConkey is there, maybe Ricky Pearsall is there, etc.
I think if they can get bolster the line play a little bit, by moving back, they can get away with Kirk, Zay, Washington and a new face via free agency and the draft in my opinion.
This team has a lot of holes in it now... ugh
(03-05-2024, 04:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 03:36 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah if Mitchell is there I think they take him, if not I think they go Thomas Jr. If he's gone I could see then going oline
I don't know how I feel about Adonai Mitchell. Didn't seem very productive in college. Had only a few good games here and there. Just not sure he's somebody I take with the 17th selection.
If it's not Odunze or Thomas Jr. I would take a chance with a trade down, pick-up an extra 2nd or 3rd and take the best interior player available on either side of the football.
RD2 gives me more chances at a WR that maybe makes more sense. Maybe you can grab a guy like Xavier Leggett at that point, maybe Ladd McConkey is there, maybe Ricky Pearsall is there, etc.
I think if they can get bolster the line play a little bit, by moving back, they can get away with Kirk, Zay, Washington and a new face via free agency and the draft in my opinion.
I'm talking about Quinyon Mitchell not Adonai. Yeah, i don't want Adonai. I don't think there is a chance Odunze will be there. I don't see Odunze getting out of the top 10.
(03-05-2024, 12:57 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]The bigger issue here isn't the players or the cap as much as it is the overall team management. Changing a defensive coordinator shouldn't require a major overhaul of talent due to change in scheme. The front office / head coach should be deciding what type of team they are from the get go. Philosophy, design, the type of players they want, etc... When they chose Caldwell they should have done so because he fit the philosophy and mentality they wanted. If for whatever reason he doesn't work out, the answer shouldn't be to start all over again with a new type of coordinator with a different scheme requiring different players. Total lack of vision and development of the organization as a whole. In theory that should fall on both Baalke and Pederson. But of course none of us knows for sure if they are on the same page and if not, who is actually pulling the strings. No matter how you slice it, this isn't being managed well.
Good coaches know how to get the most out of their guys. They may favor certain traits, but guys are going to have to be able to play in zone or man coverage no matter who is currently calling the plays.
In the same manner, if you have a 4-3 team and a coach who prefers 3-4, the change isn't gonna happen overnight and everyone knows that going into the job offer. It's on the coach to find ways to incorporate the current players into the scheme and for the FO to start filling the roster with players that are best suited to perform well knowing the traits their coach(es) prefer.
The coach is part of the interview too - they know who is on the roster, how long those guys are likely there based on contracts, cap, and pending deals, and if they take a job where the team is up against the cap and nobody fits their scheme, they might not want to sign a mortgage on a place, if you get what I'm sayin.
(03-05-2024, 01:34 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 12:57 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]The bigger issue here isn't the players or the cap as much as it is the overall team management. Changing a defensive coordinator shouldn't require a major overhaul of talent due to change in scheme. The front office / head coach should be deciding what type of team they are from the get go. Philosophy, design, the type of players they want, etc... When they chose Caldwell they should have done so because he fit the philosophy and mentality they wanted. If for whatever reason he doesn't work out, the answer shouldn't be to start all over again with a new type of coordinator with a different scheme requiring different players. Total lack of vision and development of the organization as a whole. In theory that should fall on both Baalke and Pederson. But of course none of us knows for sure if they are on the same page and if not, who is actually pulling the strings. No matter how you slice it, this isn't being managed well.
This isn't an overhaul.
They are literally clearing the most obvious bad cap hits while simultaneously giving the new staff an opportunity to handpick some strategic fits for the new scheme.
Williams is the only player thus far that wasn't already a consensus assumption to be cut and his cap hit + the desire for more man coverage warrants it.
They just have to get the second phase of this thing right by selecting proper replacements or they're screwed.
BTW - Pederson and Caldwell apparently were on the same page in 2022 and trying to install a man heavy scheme initially until it failed because they didn't have the horses in the secondary. That was bad roster eval on their part, so after Caldwell apparently rubbed Doug the wrong way in a number of ways (rumors flying about this) the fact that a new DC is going to be able to change some personnel is no shock to me.
Bolding that because you should of, honestly.
Montriac Brown’s play in New Orleans gave the front office the flexibility to move Williams off the books. They also need enough future cap space for Campbell, Etienne, Cisco, and then the 25 kill-streak-nuke which will be Trevor Lawrence, along with Josh Allen’s deal. The Jaguars will have 2 players with $100 MILLION+ contracts.
Antonio Johnson’s play, like Buster Brown’s, will have the same effect for Rayshawn Jenkins.
If I was Jenkins I would go ahead and ask the waitress for the check please.
But before Jenkins says “ah-ite, imma head out” he deserves a shoutout:
His forced fumble vs the Titans, AND his walk-off interception/TD vs the Cowboys, will go down as one of the top 5 defensive plays in Jaguars History. What’s cool is he made both plays in the same season, during a stretch where we had to win games to make the playoffs and his play was a huge reason we made it to the postseason. 10 to 15 years from now, fans will look back on Jenkins much like the Cowboys look back on Larry Brown an average player that made a couple of heroic plays that helped their team win some big-time games.
Jenkins’ game against Dallas is by far the best defensive game by any Jaguars player from the safety position in franchise history.
Week 15 2022, Jenkins vs Cowboys:
Comb Tackles - 18
Int - 2
Ret Yds - 54
PD - 2
TD - 1
He also played 8 snaps on special teams that game. What a day. #One for the ages.
Jenkins stats from 2022 Week 14 to week 18, which was 5 games the Jaguars had to win:
Comb tack - 45
Ret Yds - 54
PD - 3
Int - 2
TFL - 2
TD - 1
Sack - 1
QB Hit - 1
FF - 1
Most productive 5 game stretch of any Jaguars player from the safety position, and maybe of any defensive back in franchise history. Bro was out here gettin active. But that was pretty much all the gas he had.
Time to see if any of the youngsters step up.
*gets stuck at work and didn’t see where Jenkins was already cut prior to my post
I thought I ate
Brandon Scherff, you’re next my guy. You bout to head out? Alright bro, take it easy. I know you will.
I would not get to overconfident about our ” future hopeful young corners”
They could be solid back ups.
Not to be negative, but I’ve been a jag fan since I was a kid years ago. I have a lot of experience. lol
(03-06-2024, 12:46 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I would not get to overconfident about our ” future hopeful young corners”
They could be solid back ups.
Not to be negative, but I’ve been a jag fan since I was a kid years ago. I have a lot of experience. lol
You have PTSD, it's normal to get stuck in the past.
(03-05-2024, 08:27 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Montriac Brown’s play in New Orleans gave the front office the flexibility to move Williams off the books. They also need enough future cap space for Campbell, Etienne, Cisco, and then the 25 kill-streak-nuke which will be Trevor Lawrence, along with Josh Allen’s deal. The Jaguars will have 2 players with $100 MILLION+ contracts.
Antonio Johnson’s play, like Buster Brown’s, will have the same effect for Rayshawn Jenkins.
I'm gonna catch heat for it I'm sure, but my gut says we don't renew Cisco especially, but good chance we pass on Etienne, too.
I think Johnson and the relative ease to find a replacement via darft takes the premium off the Safety position.
(03-05-2024, 09:03 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]Time to see if any of the youngsters step up.
Gonna hold off on that stance till April, I gotta feeling we grab one of the many CB available early in the darft. I don't like that feeling, mind you, but it's there.
(03-06-2024, 09:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 08:27 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Montriac Brown’s play in New Orleans gave the front office the flexibility to move Williams off the books. They also need enough future cap space for Campbell, Etienne, Cisco, and then the 25 kill-streak-nuke which will be Trevor Lawrence, along with Josh Allen’s deal. The Jaguars will have 2 players with $100 MILLION+ contracts.
Antonio Johnson’s play, like Buster Brown’s, will have the same effect for Rayshawn Jenkins.
I'm gonna catch heat for it I'm sure, but my gut says we don't renew Cisco especially, but good chance we pass on Etienne, too.
I think Johnson and the relative ease to find a replacement via darft takes the premium off the Safety position.
I agree here with this. Unless Cisco turns into an All-Pro safety in 2024, or, a Pro-Bowl caliber type safety. I just don't feel like he's guaranteed to be extended. Same with Etienne. The RB position is no longer nearly as commanding and viewed as the top position in the NFL.
As much as I like the kid, and, I respect him overcoming his rookie season injury and having to make magic out of lunch meat out there with that sloppy [BLEEP] big five in front of him, he's potentially an early trading candidate going into the next off season.
I could see this front office dragging his situation out just like the Raiders did Jacob, just like the Giants did Barkley and just like the clots did Taylor. And all three of those guys are more productive than Etienne or more game changing at times in my opinion.
If Baalke drafts another RB in April. It's all but guaranteed in my opinion. And, based on his history? I could see him licking his chops for a guy like Benson out of FSU, Irving out of Oregon, Wright out of Tennessee, Gore Jr., etc.
(03-06-2024, 09:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 08:27 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Montriac Brown’s play in New Orleans gave the front office the flexibility to move Williams off the books. They also need enough future cap space for Campbell, Etienne, Cisco, and then the 25 kill-streak-nuke which will be Trevor Lawrence, along with Josh Allen’s deal. The Jaguars will have 2 players with $100 MILLION+ contracts.
Antonio Johnson’s play, like Buster Brown’s, will have the same effect for Rayshawn Jenkins.
I'm gonna catch heat for it I'm sure, but my gut says we don't renew Cisco especially, but good chance we pass on Etienne, too.
I think Johnson and the relative ease to find a replacement via darft takes the premium off the Safety position.
(03-05-2024, 09:03 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]Time to see if any of the youngsters step up.
Gonna hold off on that stance till April, I gotta feeling we grab one of the many CB available early in the darft. I don't like that feeling, mind you, but it's there.
Agreed. I might catch some heat from saying as of right now, if we lose Cisco to another team, the Jaguars would be the same team.
Etienne is going to need a 1400 yard season to even be considered.
So we cut Williams but keep Scherff? LOL.
(03-09-2024, 10:10 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]So we cut Williams but keep Scherff? LOL.
I would of liked to replace Scherff as well and we can still draft someone but one is 14 mil in dead cap with the other 500k if cut. Can't really compare the 2. If Scherff would of been 500k in dead cap if cut I'm sure he would of been cut as well
(03-09-2024, 11:00 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2024, 10:10 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]So we cut Williams but keep Scherff? LOL.
I would of liked to replace Scherff as well and we can still draft someone but one is 14 mil in dead cap with the other 500k if cut. Can't really compare the 2. If Scherff would of been 500k in dead cap if cut I'm sure he would of been cut as well
The savings of cutting Scherrf would be more than the savings of cutting Williams
(03-09-2024, 10:10 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]So we cut Williams but keep Scherff? LOL.
With the restructure I can see it, he's reliable even when constantly dinged and they like what he gives in pass pro. I'd rather they move on but it's not like they kept him at that horrid number he had two days ago.
(03-09-2024, 04:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2024, 11:00 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I would of liked to replace Scherff as well and we can still draft someone but one is 14 mil in dead cap with the other 500k if cut. Can't really compare the 2. If Scherff would of been 500k in dead cap if cut I'm sure he would of been cut as well
The savings of cutting Scherrf would be more than the savings of cutting Williams
(03-09-2024, 10:10 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]So we cut Williams but keep Scherff? LOL.
With the restructure I can see it, he's reliable even when constantly dinged and they like what he gives in pass pro. I'd rather they move on but it's not like they kept him at that horrid number he had two days ago.
No it wouldnt. Scherff would have been almost 15 mil in dead cap if cut and a savings of just over 9 mil. The Williams cut is only 500k in dead cap and we save 10 mil
(03-09-2024, 04:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2024, 04:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The savings of cutting Scherrf would be more than the savings of cutting Williams
With the restructure I can see it, he's reliable even when constantly dinged and they like what he gives in pass pro. I'd rather they move on but it's not like they kept him at that horrid number he had two days ago.
No it wouldnt. Scherff would have been almost 15 mil in dead cap if cut and a savings of just over 9 mil. The Williams cut is only 500k in dead cap and we save 10 mil
Post 6/1 designation was significantly more, over $16 million. New contract terms aren't out yet.
(03-09-2024, 05:08 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2024, 04:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]No it wouldnt. Scherff would have been almost 15 mil in dead cap if cut and a savings of just over 9 mil. The Williams cut is only 500k in dead cap and we save 10 mil
Post 6/1 designation was significantly more, over $16 million. New contract terms aren't out yet.
All you are doing then is just pushing dead cap to more years down the road. It hasnt been reported there is a restructure yet, Rap just tweeted a couple days ago we are closing in on one.