Lawrence looks lost out there, he’s playing like a rookie, how much did they pay him?
Doug looks and sounds drained. We knew the opening month of this season was tough on paper. Where I get frustrated in this is with the offense. I feel like the defense has done enough over the last two weeks. Would we like turnovers? Sure. However, you can't expect that every week. I am still impressed with the 20 points allowed in week one and the 16 points allowed yesterday.
Again, the offense. You played Cleveland last year. You played Miami back in the preseason. There should be some sort of familiarity there. Doug's at least taking accountability here in this press conference. He's saying they're better than this, they're a better football team than this. I disagree. I think, like he said, they've been together now for awhile, it's year three. We keep circling the drain and having these same issues crop up.
So, there's something to be said to that. He spoke about brilliances of excellence out there. I agree and disagree to an extent. He mentioned consistency. Again, I agree and disagree to an extent. I keep watching other games now, with intent and paying closer attention to details. Listen guys, other teams struggle series to series, just like ours, they're still finding ways to win, they're still overcoming multiple mistakes in games, errors, etc.
A lot of it is a mix between punch, counter-punch. But, they have tendency busters. I don't see them going run, run, run, punt on a drive and then coming back out and going run, run, obvious pass, punt. I see a lot of adjustments being made and changes happening in real time and I just don't sense that with this football team. Once again, second week in a row, chance to regain the lead, time running short, you're putting Lawrence in obvious passing situations, with no element of surprise to keep a defense honest, no misdirection, no quick hitters, no screens, etc.
Something needs to change before Monday Night Football a week from today. Season is already running away from them fast and there's no more excuses. Your defense has held your opponents to a total of 36 points and your offense has only mustered 30 points. Reminder:
Kirk's cap hit: $24.2M - 1st highest paid player
Cam's cap hit: $21.9M - 2nd highest paid player
Trevor's cap hit: $15.7M - 4th highest paid player
Scherff's cap hit: $11.5M - 5th highest paid player
Engram's cap hit: $7.0M - 8th highest paid player
Davis's cap hit: $4.7M - 11th highest paid player
Etienne's cap hit: $4.1M - 13th highest paid player
Cleveland's cap hit: $3.5M - 14th highest paid player
Probably realizes he is hitched to a team built incorrectly.
(09-16-2024, 04:05 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence looks lost out there, he’s playing like a rookie, how much did they pay him?
He looks like the entire offense is
1) Snap the ball to Trevor
2) ?????
3) TUDDIES!
Cripes, even that heave just before the final snap, Gabe and BTJ were in the exact same spot...what kind of offense does that?
(09-16-2024, 04:05 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence looks lost out there, he’s playing like a rookie, how much did they pay him?
I wouldn't say that. I think he's learning from the past few years and playing more gun shy if anything while holding onto the football a little bit longer than usual. Two weeks into the season without a turnover is impressive to me. They'll get a win here soon. Somebody's going to get a fire lit under their [BLEEP] this week between the coaching staff and personnel. It's coming.
I think there needs to be a happy balance established here within the offense of what works, and what doesn't work.
What works?
- Running the football on 1st and 10+ yards works relatively well. They have their best success here, they tend to average right around 5 YPC.
- The deep ball is there with BTJ. There's something to exploit there further in due time.
- Davis is a little bit better in the mid game than I realized. He seems to be a hybrid of Zay Jones and Marvin Jones. Need to keep working the seams more with him.
- Strange looked pretty damn good yesterday on short notice with Engram out. This is something to watch. Bigsby had his game in week one. Strange had his game in week two. Could week three be the combination of both showing up?
- End around / Jet Sweep to Duvernay. Two weeks in a row. It's not GREAT, but, it's not BAD neither. First time got a facemask on it for a good gain. Yesterday it was a nice cut back effort for three to four. This can be used to set up a misdirection play soon.
- Lawrence's legs. He took off once or twice in the Miami opener. He had a big run yesterday and went 2 for 45 yards I believe. Need some more of this. All the elite QB's do it today. He must continue to do this from time to time.
What doesn't work?
- Short yardage run plays, from the 1 - 3 yard variety. Doesn't matter what down it is, that well is simply not there to drink from.
- Redzone offense. Again, see above. As the field shrinks, so does the play calling it appears. Running it all the time won't cut it.
- Third down conversions. 5/19 for so far. If they can avoid 3rd downs completely, the world would be a better place. Not realistic though. What can they change here?
Possible solutions?
I think it's obvious. I really do. This is a good 1st down offense. Teams are expecting the run more and they're effective at it here. They need to find a way to make this the guessing game for opponents. A lot of run looks but opting for big pass plays in chunks. Maybe use more RPO with Lawrence to keep a defense on it's heels. While it's nice to see 5 - 7 yards run being picked up on 1st downs? And it seems to be a big block of cheese for the play caller on the table to keep wanting to run it on those 2nd and short situations?
Don't do it. Just don't do it. I think you could use 1st and 10+ situations as a test for Lawrence as a highly paid QB now. Give him the reigns there. Give him the Peyton Manning audible options there. Would like to see a mix and match of twin TE sets and trips WR sets on 1st and 10+ moving forward. Sure. Sometimes getting that 5 - 7 yard run is great. Would rather see Lawrence freeze the LB group though and pick up a chunk of 15+ or 20+ instead with a passing play.
With Lawrence's legs? They really do need to get that kid moving in and out of the pocket, flowing left to right and right to left from time to time. Keep a nice healthy rotation of Kirk in and out for Washington, Duvernay in and out with anybody really with his speed and getting the most out of BTJ's 4.3 speed as an overall athlete. Lawrence seems to be a really good thrower on the run, feels more natural to him from the highlights I have seen over the years.
This offense is dying from a lack of bootlegs, QB keepers, QB sprints, designed roll out's, misdirection screens, etc. This is what they should be doing on 1st and goal and those 2nd and 3rd short yardage situations. Etienne is a pass catcher as well. Not sure if the offensive staff knows this, but, the guy had 102 career receptions for close to 1,200 yards and 8 TD's at Clemson. He averaged basically a 1st down every time he caught a pass with 11.3 YPC.
This is something a good play caller and offense should be exploiting more of underneath in short yardage situations and refining week to week. He's entering a contract year soon anyway. More than likely destined for the franchise tag and being ran into the dirt. Might as well give him more opportunities in the passing game. They looked good in preseason a few times with some looks. That big TD catch he had in Pittsburgh last year should have been sprinkled more into this offense planning wise.
If Engram's hamstring is healthy though for week three? It would be fun seeing Strange and him both getting some short yardage work together as a tandem like Doug used to do with his entire TE room with the Eagles. They didn't take Strange in RD2 last year to be a big blocker. He's showing you what he can do in the passing game now, like he did yesterday. He also had a few nice routes where he was missed during the preseason as well.
This is where you can get away from the running game on short yardage situations and where you can potentially use your TE's to get LB's isolated and guessing too much to where, maybe, down the road, sure, getting those short yards on the ground become easier for Etienne and Bigsby. It starts with the play caller first though. You have to be willing to adapt. You have to be willing to break up your own tendencies.
This team has been it's own worst enemy since Doug has been here. Said it in the other thread already. Maybe even this thread. They're streaky. In a good and bad way. When it's good? It's GOOD. When it's bad? It's BAD. This bad streak feels a little different though. It's not the usual turnover frenzy we're used to seeing, it's still the same miscues though, lack of concentration & lack of awareness. Again, tendency breaker folks. Coaches have to coach them out of this.
They can do it. They'll do it.
As we all said it was a tough start to year. 2-2 felt like it'd be a good record. Obviously it's not as much the 0-2 start as how we have looked. Offense looks anemic. Same as last year. What happened to the offense that finished the 2022 season? Everyone looks worse. Trevor Etienne kirk entire oline.
Anyways it's a long season. But realistically need to go 10-5 rest of the way to have a shot at playoffs. Can still turn it around but they need to find something fast. Worst case 1-1 next two games. I don't think Bill's game is a must win but if you lose Texans becomes that. Just go 1-1 and let's reasses.
We should have won in Miami. Losing that game, the way we did, I’m afraid, created some perma-damage to this team’s psyche this season
Loseing to tittians at end of season last year created LOSERVILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOSERVILLE hasn't won a game that counted since loseing to tittians.
(09-16-2024, 10:22 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (09-16-2024, 04:05 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence looks lost out there, he’s playing like a rookie, how much did they pay him?
I wouldn't say that. I think he's learning from the past few years and playing more gun shy if anything while holding onto the football a little bit longer than usual. Two weeks into the season without a turnover is impressive to me. [...]
IMO it looks like Trevor has been TOLD to not throw interceptions throughout the offseason, but it doesn't look he's been SHOWN how to do it. He hasn't thrown an interception which is a good thing, but it looks like the cost is him hesitating, double-checking his routes, and passing over routes that are semi-open. Even his bad throws look like he's hesitating throwing the ball, leading to a 'Should I make this this pass?' beat that disrupts his natural timing.
He should be checking the defense pre-snap, overlaying the offensive call on top of it, and developing "keys" that allow him to quickly and safely get through his reads faster and safer. He also needs to work on manipulating the pocket with his legs while keeping his eyes downfield, even with a below-average offensive line. I think the sack that he ran into against the Dolphins is a good example of that.
While the run game, as you've mentioned, is working on first down, first down is also the easiest down to throw on.
(09-16-2024, 10:46 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]As we all said it was a tough start to year. 2-2 felt like it'd be a good record. Obviously it's not as much the 0-2 start as how we have looked. Offense looks anemic. Same as last year. What happened to the offense that finished the 2022 season? Everyone looks worse. Trevor Etienne kirk entire oline.
Anyways it's a long season. But realistically need to go 10-5 rest of the way to have a shot at playoffs. Can still turn it around but they need to find something fast. Worst case 1-1 next two games. I don't think Bill's game is a must win but if you lose Texans becomes that. Just go 1-1 and let's reasses.
Since 1979, only 6 teams that started 0-3 have made the playoffs. None made it to the SB. The Bills is a must win game
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/n...s/3235349/
I have a proposal to dougy P to help provide an answer. It’s obviously too late to change the offense, which is unfortunate due to its lack of creativity, play action, and pre snap motion. However what the coaching staff can do, is get Trevor the play call much earlier and get to the line. Allow the players to get set with plenty of time and start running some hard counts. Peyton and AROD style. Offense is insanely predictable and defensive lines are clearly picking up on it, and there also is barely any time to even scan the defense. Just seems like there is 5 seconds on the play clock every time they head to the line. It’s truly why I think we are so damn bad in short yardage situations. We can’t seem to run up the middle ever on a 3rd/4th and short. It’s as if the defensive line is the one saying hut. A hard count allows the offensive line to be a fraction of a second earlier, and maybe that’s enough to help move the chains on offense.
I expect my answer on the proposal soon Doug. I know you’re on the board. lol
(09-16-2024, 10:57 AM)snowwolf776 Wrote: [ -> ]Loseing to tittians at end of season last year created LOSERVILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOSERVILLE hasn't won a game that counted since loseing to tittians.
snowy, I say this because I care.
It's ok to take a break. If you're not in a good place, take a breather, relax a bit, and come back when you've had time to simmer.
(09-16-2024, 11:20 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]I have a proposal to dougy P to help provide an answer. It’s obviously too late to change the offense, which is unfortunate due to its lack of creativity, play action, and pre snap motion. However what the coaching staff can do, is get Trevor the play call much earlier and get to the line. Allow the players to get set with plenty of time and start running some hard counts. Peyton and AROD style. Offense is insanely predictable and defensive lines are clearly picking up on it, and there also is barely any time to even scan the defense. Just seems like there is 5 seconds on the play clock every time they head to the line. It’s truly why I think we are so damn bad in short yardage situations. We can’t seem to run up the middle ever on a 3rd/4th and short. It’s as if the defensive line is the one saying hut. A hard count allows the offensive line to be a fraction of a second earlier, and maybe that’s enough to help move the chains on offense.
I expect my answer on the proposal soon Doug. I know you’re on the board. lol
They could do the Peyton. Run "slow hurry up". No huddles run up the line and then allow them to change the play as necessary at the line.
(09-16-2024, 04:38 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-16-2024, 11:20 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]I have a proposal to dougy P to help provide an answer. It’s obviously too late to change the offense, which is unfortunate due to its lack of creativity, play action, and pre snap motion. However what the coaching staff can do, is get Trevor the play call much earlier and get to the line. Allow the players to get set with plenty of time and start running some hard counts. Peyton and AROD style. Offense is insanely predictable and defensive lines are clearly picking up on it, and there also is barely any time to even scan the defense. Just seems like there is 5 seconds on the play clock every time they head to the line. It’s truly why I think we are so damn bad in short yardage situations. We can’t seem to run up the middle ever on a 3rd/4th and short. It’s as if the defensive line is the one saying hut. A hard count allows the offensive line to be a fraction of a second earlier, and maybe that’s enough to help move the chains on offense.
I expect my answer on the proposal soon Doug. I know you’re on the board. lol
They could do the Peyton. Run "slow hurry up". No huddles run up the line and then allow them to change the play as necessary at the line.
Lawrence was already doing this though yesterday. With the cadence change and hard count. He made Myles jump early twice and took a shot to Kirk on the 2nd one he drew him over with.
There's some wrinkles of improvement that are there for this offense. They just have to be willing to hammer them out between the staff and personnel.
I like the no huddle drills from time to time. The achille's heel is the short yardage run game. They failed last year at it. They're failing at it again just two weeks in.
This needs to be modified greatly. From the playcaller all the way down to how the big five up front operate as a collective.
We're not a power run football team. We're not the 49ers. We're not the Ravens. We're not the Chargers. We're a west coast finesse team larping as a run first offense with no success outside of 1st and 10+ yard situations.
Philosophy and approach must change incrementally at this point to survive this season. It must. There's no if, and or but about it.
Green Bay and Buffalo were two of the top three short yardage offenses last year on 3rd and 4th down. The obvious #1 team was the green tush push machine in Philadelphia.
But, when you look at GB and BUF from last year? A lot of the short yardage designs were a mix and match of a lot of TE movement work in short order with runs in there as well.
We have the TE room to do the same in 2024. I think it's a hidden gem on this offense if the coaches are willing to mine for it. Engram, Strange and Farrell can be and should be way more involved in 2nd and 3 and 3rd and 2 situations.
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Our right side is weak. If we're gonna run, you gotta go left, either sweep or off tackle.
The problem with the run game on short yardage has been that we are trying to run straight up the middle between the center and the guards.
Also, let's not forget how good our O-Line held up when we decided to not be predictable. Against Miami and again in the late 3rd and most of the 4th Quarter yesterday, when we were actually putting the ball in Trevor's hands on 1st and 2nd down, we got good protection.
There was that one drive where we threw it on first for a mid gain. Then we threw it on 2nd for and incompletion. But we kept at it on 3rd down and got a good 1st down.
The O-Line is not good. But we have a real QB. We should be letting him sling it. Go West Coast offense. Use the passing game as the running game. Get some easy yards. Then when the Defense starts backing off, that's when you run the ball. Set up the run with our passing game.
Instead, we are relying on our O-Line to establish the run to set up the passing game. That would work if we had a great O-Line. We don't. The fact that we are hiding Trevor Lawrence is completely backwards to what is actually the way successful NFL teams with a good QB works.
We're the Bizzaro NFL team. We have a top 10 QB, but we treat him as a 24th ranked QB. We then have a 24th ranked O-Line and we are using them like they are the 2022 Eagles O-Line. We are doing the opposite of what we should be doing.
I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about the teams that increased their rate of presnap motion the most compared to last year are all 2-0 so far this year: saints, bucs, and Seahawks.
The saints especially look incredible and their personal is more or less the same as last year. What changed? Kubiak came in and brought a great scheme to modernize their offense. Kamara is even looking like the young version of himself. Carr has been historically mid but he's playing lights out too.
Granted it's only been 2 weeks but it's food for thought.
(09-16-2024, 10:57 AM)snowwolf776 Wrote: [ -> ]Loseing to tittians at end of season last year created LOSERVILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOSERVILLE hasn't won a game that counted since loseing to tittians.
Man u need a kitkat or sumth
I know this won’t happen because I’ve been watching this problem for at least 2 years now, but the coaching staff needs to get the play calls in to the offense much faster allowing the offense time to avoid delay of games and wasting time outs. This also gives Trevor more time to do things before the ball is snapped. He might not be Payton manning, but he still might need to do things.
(09-16-2024, 05:31 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ] (09-16-2024, 10:57 AM)snowwolf776 Wrote: [ -> ]Loseing to tittians at end of season last year created LOSERVILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOSERVILLE hasn't won a game that counted since loseing to tittians.
Man u need a kitkat or sumth
That's just snowy...
If this team actually turns it around, He'll have a special ritual that will take us to the Super Bowl.
Salmon again, maybe? I'd prefer if he gets more into St. Louis Ribs. I got a WSM and I've gotten pretty good at smoking a mean rack. But whatever, he's got good karma when the karma starts rolling.