(11-23-2024, 12:13 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, it’s easier to find four good linebackers than it is to find four good d line. Anyways the next coach needs to attack with blitzes. That’s so important.
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with this. Essentially you have to have 2 great edge players, regardless of the "base" defense, and I consider that to be the hardest (and most impactful) player(s) to find. In the classic 3-4, the DLmen (LE, NT, RE) are space/block-eaters and are somewhat easier to find. In the classic 4-3, you're looking for a solid NT and a penetrating 3-tech (another hard position to find.)
But at the end of the day, the best defenses are building a 4-2-5 defense--the actual base defense--and that's regardless of the 4-3/3-4 choice. I would say that having the option to go big-nickel (S/WLB) in the 3rd CB position, and small-nickel (quick CB) is what fills up the most often used D.
That secondary ain’t scaring nobody. It’s the weakest unit on defense, even with Campbell.
(11-23-2024, 01:21 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2024, 12:13 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, it’s easier to find four good linebackers than it is to find four good d line. Anyways the next coach needs to attack with blitzes. That’s so important.
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with this. Essentially you have to have 2 great edge players, regardless of the "base" defense, and I consider that to be the hardest (and most impactful) player(s) to find. In the classic 3-4, the DLmen (LE, NT, RE) are space/block-eaters and are somewhat easier to find. In the classic 4-3, you're looking for a solid NT and a penetrating 3-tech (another hard position to find.)
But at the end of the day, the best defenses are building a 4-2-5 defense--the actual base defense--and that's regardless of the 4-3/3-4 choice. I would say that having the option to go big-nickel (S/WLB) in the 3rd CB position, and small-nickel (quick CB) is what fills up the most often used D.
The issues are that the Jags don't have a speed edge and they don't have a penetrating 3-tech. Because of that, it just takes a hair too long for the Jags pressure to actually get to the QB.
If they cannot find/shore up those in FA/draft, they will need a DC who can use simulated pressures to create better match ups for JHA & TW and some OL protection confusion for other teams.
The other side of the coin is that they need a secondary coach that can actually set up a coverage scheme that are not immediately decipherable to every QB pre-snap and some safeties who can actually run it.
Even if they have perfectly executed front 7, it won't matter if the QB/WR know exactly where the dead spots in coverage are going to be and don't have to take a tick in real time to adjust.
(11-23-2024, 05:57 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]That secondary ain’t scaring nobody. It’s the weakest unit on defense, even with Campbell.
I agree, but I think it is mostly safety play and Darby.
(11-23-2024, 12:13 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, it’s easier to find four good linebackers than it is to find four good d line. Anyways the next coach needs to attack with blitzes. That’s so important.
Well it is easier to find LB's who can do the jobs you need them to do, and you make their jobs easier and more defined if they have good DT's, DE's and safeties. Then the 2nd/3rd tier LB's will fit in your system and play adequately.
Above average LB's that cover others mistakes and do everything are a nice luxury to have, but often are still mostly reactionary to what the offense is showing instead of aggressive and forcing the issue. That is unless you get elite level LB's like Ray Allen or Luke Kuechly that will diagnose the offensive play pre-snap so they can attack instead of react.
But the Jags don't have any of those elite LB's. I would put Foye in the above average category.
(11-23-2024, 09:43 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2024, 12:13 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, it’s easier to find four good linebackers than it is to find four good d line. Anyways the next coach needs to attack with blitzes. That’s so important.
Well it is easier to find LB's who can do the jobs you need them to do, and you make their jobs easier and more defined if they have good DT's, DE's and safeties. Then the 2nd/3rd tier LB's will fit in your system and play adequately.
Above average LB's that cover others mistakes and do everything are a nice luxury to have, but often are still mostly reactionary to what the offense is showing instead of aggressive and forcing the issue. That is unless you get elite level LB's like Ray Allen or Luke Kuechly that will diagnose the offensive play pre-snap so they can attack instead of react.
But the Jags don't have any of those elite LB's. I would put Foye in the above average category.
I think Pitre from the Texans is an interesting case on how DC's can adapt their scheme to a players' strengths. While Pitre had a great rookie season, in Demeco's first year (Pitre's 2nd) he lined him up as a traditional 2-deep safety...and he was miserable at that spot/role. In 2024 DeMeco has Pitre playing up near the line of scrimmage as a WLB/N and he is much more productive. Now part of that move is the fact that WLB Christian Harris has been out all year, but regardless Pitre's had some games where he is affecting the outside run, screen passes, and rushing the QB. He's a liability when he gets matched up against a legitimate receiver through offensive scheme, but it's a case of taking a former D-rated player and making him a B+ just by adapting their role.
Cisco swapped positions, and along with man vs man, it’s caused him to fall off.
He’s a backup at this point.
We need some monsters in the middle (Henderson/Stroud) to complement Walker/Hines-Allen because I think the 4-3 would better suit the franchise rushers. Foye in the middle, Miller at Sam and Lloyd at Will. This defense isn't stingy at all and everyone thought a healthy Hamilton and presumably Armstead would help the interior, but we paid Armstead to lollygag on the outside.
Given how poor the safety play has been, why didn't the Jags claim Mike Edwards from waiver to at last try him out?
He is already playing well for Tampa Bay.
(11-24-2024, 09:34 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Given how poor the safety play has been, why didn't the Jags claim Mike Edwards from waiver to at last try him out?
He is already playing well for Tampa Bay.
Baalke masterclass baby, we must keep
This guy right ?
Upgrading the secondary is a must, but the defensive tackle positions are just as bad.
What really sucks is that we're stuck with Davon Hamilton for at least another year because it costs more to cut him than keep him. He's fallen off a cliff and can't stop the run or rush from inside.
Same thing with Darnell Savage, Gabe Davis, and Arik Armstead. Baalke has put the Jags in a tough spot with his horrible free agent signings and failed draft picks.
(11-25-2024, 12:13 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]What really sucks is that we're stuck with Davon Hamilton for at least another year because it costs more to cut him than keep him. He's fallen off a cliff and can't stop the run or rush from inside.
Same thing with Darnell Savage, Gabe Davis, and Arik Armstead. Baalke has put the Jags in a tough spot with his horrible free agent signings and failed draft picks.
with Maason and Jefferson on rookie deals, if you have to take a hit to move on, you take the hit while those two guys are bargain basement priced. Don't keep spoiled meat in the fridge just because you paid a lot for it when you bought it.
(11-23-2024, 05:57 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]That secondary ain’t scaring nobody. It’s the weakest unit on defense, even with Campbell.
Well, Andre Cisco needs to be gone.
I never thought I'd say this, but Rayshawn was a better safety. We need someone with cover instincts.