(12-09-2024, 12:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:55 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And there we have it, the perfect example of why you lack the ability to see the big picture. The "highest rated" center...lol.
Draftbuzz: 3
PFF: 6
Drafttek: 5
Walter: 4
Tankathon: 8
I'm sure you've found a listing a gaterluvers.com or some other swamp denizen site that validates your myopia, but no one with any real insight has him that high. Lol.
Yep, Smith better take a stratospheric leap next year to make that pick worthwhile.
I'm talking about production. How he has played this year. So if those sites move him up on their board then you like him better? Lol. So which one is it? Is he 3rd? 8th? Now it makes sense why you don't like him. It has nothing to do with you watching him play it's because a site hated him rated low on their board.
https://www.pff.com/news/college-footbal...ek-15-2024
I've watched 6 gater games this year, I haven't been overly impressed with your boy. Certainly not enough to ride his junk in a speculation thread on an NFL message board. Sorry if that hurts your little orange and blue feelings.
(12-09-2024, 12:11 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 12:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm talking about production. How he has played this year. So if those sites move him up on their board then you like him better? Lol. So which one is it? Is he 3rd? 8th? Now it makes sense why you don't like him. It has nothing to do with you watching him play it's because a site hated him rated low on their board.
https://www.pff.com/news/college-footbal...ek-15-2024
I've watched 6 gater games this year, I haven't been overly impressed with your boy. Certainly not enough to ride his junk in a speculation thread on an NFL message board. Sorry if that hurts your little orange and blue feelings.
You haven't watched any Gator games lol. You think the highest rated center is the worst center in the league 2.0. Although you thought Fortner was our future at center even in his 2nd year when it was pretty clear. So maybe you saying Slaughter is Fortner 2.0 is you thinking Slaughter could be our future at center lol. Looks like pff is the one riding his junk. There are a few players I like in this class that I feel could be an upgrade but I want to see how they do at the combine as well and a few of them are in the playoffs so they could still raise or lower their stick depending on how they play when it matters most.
(12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
But did Frazier fit the scheme?
(12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
Frazier was so far and away the best selection for round 2. But it's Baalke and he saw the arm length and injury for Smith.
(12-09-2024, 12:46 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
But did Frazier fit the scheme?
What scheme? What I see is the plan they come up with each week is hope.
(12-09-2024, 09:46 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 08:38 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]You lost me at the first sentence, OP. "Once again a need" suggests that any of us considered the position fixed with the Morse signing. He was a bit of masking tape holding up a load bearing wall.
It always was a need.
I gotta agree with the tone of response, though, we gotta get rid of the GM and coach and figure out who is coming in and how they want to run before we start worry about which player will solve the issue.
I'm talking about 2025. If Morse can play like he did the first half of the season it wouldn't be a need heading into next year for the starting position. Some players can play in any scheme and it won't matter what type of offense we run next year. I think if we draft Ratledge or Jake Slaughter the scheme won't matter. Which scheme do you think Ratledge wouldn't fit? Like last year, which scheme would Frazier, Beebe, JPJ not fi in?
When you sign a 32 year-old Center, you still have need, whether you are talking about today, tomorrow, or yesterday. Full stop. Father time don't sit around waiting forever.
I don't know much about the guys this year, really think we missed the boat in 2024. But the point is that unless we get rid of coaches we currently got, probably aren't going to see much progress from whoever we take, and if we don't can the GM, anyone's thinking that player X is a great fit because [reason] is a waste of brainpower. We've seen enough to know that depth of position or player ability are not going to compel him to make a decent pick.
(12-09-2024, 12:38 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 12:11 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I've watched 6 gater games this year, I haven't been overly impressed with your boy. Certainly not enough to ride his junk in a speculation thread on an NFL message board. Sorry if that hurts your little orange and blue feelings.
You haven't watched any Gator games lol. You think the highest rated center is the worst center in the league 2.0. Although you thought Fortner was our future at center even in his 2nd year when it was pretty clear. So maybe you saying Slaughter is Fortner 2.0 is you thinking Slaughter could be our future at center lol. Looks like pff is the one riding his junk. There are a few players I like in this class that I feel could be an upgrade but I want to see how they do at the combine as well and a few of them are in the playoffs so they could still raise or lower their stick depending on how they play when it matters most.
Again..."Highest rated" is "an opinion", which you seem to be bothered that I have because it conflicts with yours (and some ethereal authority to whom I should bow). It's interesting how you pretend that your leap to defend the sacred honor of Slaughter is anything but my criticism of your college fave. He's a guy, maybe he's the guy here, but you'll notice I'm not pissing and moaning about the Texas center to get you to see it my way. Because I'm not jock riding my college team like you tend to do.
(12-09-2024, 11:22 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
He's only 5.4 against the cap next year, and you have to do SOMETHING beyond the status quo if you want to see the position improved. Not saying we need to darft a day one starter, but it would be good to get a guy who's going to have upside, be able to learn technique from a ten-year vet, and be at the ready should injury occur.
Would you rather we spend pages debating how Mac's ints were horribad and even still we couldn't play incompetently enough to allow the even more incompetent tacks to keep us in the cellar?
Yay this season!
(12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
salting the wound, guy. salting the wound.
(12-09-2024, 12:46 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
But did Frazier fit the scheme?
this implies we have/had a scheme.
(12-09-2024, 12:46 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
But did Frazier fit the scheme?
Apparently nobody fits our schemes on offense or defense.
(12-09-2024, 11:22 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
Yeah.
Never really know what a new regime may do this offseason, but I'd wager Morse will start in 2025 regardless. And I hope they draft his 2026 replacement this Spring, but nothing about the primary personnel at center is changing anytime soon.
And there's nothing out there but wishful thinking implying they don't wait till 2026 address Morse's replacement.
I don't think Morse is the answer at center. We need to upgrade Center and and Scherff this off-season.
(12-09-2024, 04:49 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Morse is the answer at center. We need to upgrade Center and and Scherff this off-season.
Correct, but he IS the bridge to the next center. It's unlikely we find a Day 1 starter in the draft and I don't expect this team to go heavy in free agency this year, so Morse is the steady, reliable average declining vet most teams use to transition. Had we taken one last year like many of us were saying then we wouldn't be having this conversation today, the next guy would already be here and ready to start. But we got Masterclass running things, so we're sitting here talking about the future of the center position. Again.
I think we should draft some o-line this year in the first 3 rounds to develop (not rocket science I know).
(12-09-2024, 06:17 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 04:49 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Morse is the answer at center. We need to upgrade Center and and Scherff this off-season.
Correct, but he IS the bridge to the next center. It's unlikely we find a Day 1 starter in the draft and I don't expect this team to go heavy in free agency this year, so Morse is the steady, reliable average declining vet most teams use to transition. Had we taken one last year like many of us were saying then we wouldn't be having this conversation today, the next guy would already be here and ready to start. But we got Masterclass running things, so we're sitting here talking about the future of the center position. Again.
Far be it from me, the most delusional of fans, to say what we should be doing. But, it would be nice to tank the season in order to trade down and use that capital to shore up the O-Line. We're at the point where if we don't protect Lawrence, it's gonna be a rebuild in 2 years.
I'm not putting this all on Morse, but the interior of this line can't run block. Is it because of coaching? Hopefully. But at the end of the day, the Center and both Guards are the reason we're getting cooked. We can't run block. We can't keep the QB comfortable in pass plays. Little is proving to be a good LT. Harrison still has the potential to be coached to being a great Tackle. But the guards and center are not getting the job done.
Baalke isn't going to fix it, because he has no idea what the heck he's doing. Baalke's philosphy is straight garbage. He does a couple things well, but he failed at the O-Line and D-Line. Pederson and his coaching staff have failed in protecting Lawrence, and we still can't gain short yardage in the run game after 3 years!
I feel like we're just repeating the same things over and over. I would prefer we draft based on needs. We NEED to protect Lawrence and we NEED an interior O-line that can run block. In my opinion, I just think we should be focusing on fixing the O-Line as soon as possible. Otherwise, we'll be talking about another year of Lawrence being injured because of the lack of run success and interior pass blocking.
If we lose out the rest of this season, we can still be in the top 2 picks of this draft. And then we can trade back for multiple picks and take the best Guard/Center of the draft while still having an additional pick here or there to shore up other needs at safety or D-Line.
In my opinion, if Morse and Scherff are still starting at Center and Guard, we may as well just concede the season. Maybe a real HC can get better play from those guys on the O-Line, but I wouldn't bet on it.
(12-09-2024, 02:13 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:22 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
Yeah.
Never really know what a new regime may do this offseason, but I'd wager Morse will start in 2025 regardless. And I hope they draft his 2026 replacement this Spring, but nothing about the primary personnel at center is changing anytime soon.
And there's nothing out there but wishful thinking implying they don't wait till 2026 address Morse's replacement.
words hurt, man.
(12-09-2024, 06:29 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I think we should draft some o-line this year in the first 3 rounds to develop (not rocket science I know).
/looks at last year's OL crop
//looks at this year's OL crop
///aw, hamburgers.
(12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
Every year it feels like the Steelers come away with a good draft. They just have such a well run franchise. They know who they are and the type of team they want to be from the front office all the way to lowest level of the football staff. And they tend to draft guys who were really good college players that played against good competition and fit who the steelers want to be. Very little of the gene Smith small school sleepers. Or the baalke injured height weight guys. Simple but not easily repeatable unless you have a core principal of who you are as an organization. Which we don't. And havent for a long time.
(12-09-2024, 02:13 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:22 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Arguing about the center position when it's already in place for 2025 is wild.
It's not even the off season
Yeah.
Never really know what a new regime may do this offseason, but I'd wager Morse will start in 2025 regardless. And I hope they draft his 2026 replacement this Spring, but nothing about the primary personnel at center is changing anytime soon.
And there's nothing out there but wishful thinking implying they don't wait till 2026 address Morse's replacement.
The first bolded, I hope they draft his 2025 replacement and if Baalke gets fired the new regime will likely want an upgrade at our weakest position on the oline.
The 2nd bolded, Its called his play on the field. If we keep Baalke i agree but I think Baalke gets fired at season end and whoever we bring in will likely want to upgrade the center position especially if we get Ben Johnson, then its almost a given. Baalke signing a decling Morse thisnpast year who will be 33 will have no baring on him being our starter in 2025. I think if Baalke is here, Morse will be the guy, if we bring in a new regime they will likely want an upgrade at our weakest position on the oline. All depends on if Baalke is here or not.
(12-08-2024, 11:25 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Seems simple - You have Morse and a year to groom his replacement.
Not really a great year to draft one, but we have extra picks to work with.
Fingers crossed the new regime plans to run more power than the current ZBS heavy approach.
Sick and tired of seeing short yardage fail after fail after fail.
It is simple, Morse is about to be 33 has his play has seen a big decline as the season has went on. Saying you have a year to groom his replacement means the new regime will not want to upgrade the weakest position on the oline. That 1 year left on his deal will mean nothing if the new regime wants an upgrade there.
(12-09-2024, 06:17 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 04:49 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Morse is the answer at center. We need to upgrade Center and and Scherff this off-season.
Correct, but he IS the bridge to the next center. It's unlikely we find a Day 1 starter in the draft and I don't expect this team to go heavy in free agency this year, so Morse is the steady, reliable average declining vet most teams use to transition. Had we taken one last year like many of us were saying then we wouldn't be having this conversation today, the next guy would already be here and ready to start. But we got Masterclass running things, so we're sitting here talking about the future of the center position. Again.
Teams do it every year. A good GM can find a upgrade to Morse. There are a few guys in this draft. Morse is steady at what? His play has declined every week. It will be interesting to see how he plays against the Jets
(12-10-2024, 09:55 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 11:46 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]While we were busy locking down Maason Smith with the #48 pick int the draft, the Steelers secured their Center for the next 15 years by selecting that mean and nasty Zack Frazier our of WVU with the #51 pick.
Maason Smith
* Freshman All-SEC (2021)
* 2022 - injury in game 1
* 2023 - 28 tackles + 2.5 sacks
Zach Frazier
* First-team All-Big 12 (2023)
* 2× second-team All-Big 12 (2021, 2022)
* High school: Frazier was a four-time West Virginia state wrestling champion in the heavyweight division at Fairmont Senior High School. He finished his high school career with a 159-2 record, the highest winning percentage in Marion County history. He was also named the 2019–20 Times West Virginian wrestler of the year.
Every year it feels like the Steelers come away with a good draft. They just have such a well run franchise. They know who they are and the type of team they want to be from the front office all the way to lowest level of the football staff. And they tend to draft guys who were really good college players that played against good competition and fit who the steelers want to be. Very little of the gene Smith small school sleepers. Or the baalke injured height weight guys. Simple but not easily repeatable unless you have a core principal of who you are as an organization. Which we don't. And havent for a long time.
I'd put the Ravens in the same group. My feeling is that they weigh game-tape much higher than combine numbers, which plays into your "good players that played good competition" point. Kyle Hamilton--Ravens safety taken at 14--is a great example of that. He was a top 3-10 player who got knocked down the draft board due to his slow(ish) 40-time when he ran 4.59. The Ravens loved his tape and scooped him up at 14, and he looks like an all-star.
It's pretty rare to have 6'4" strong safety and you can imagine how many passing lanes he takes away with his size alone. The one thing that the combine can't measure is instincts and heart. Teams that weigh the combine numbers heavily is why you see so many workout warriors taken ahead of where they should be based on their college performance.
Now there is nothing wrong with projects... They just belong at the 2nd-3rd day of the draft.
If the Falcons don't extend Dalman I think it's possible he will be a target in FA
(12-10-2024, 11:44 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2024, 09:55 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Every year it feels like the Steelers come away with a good draft. They just have such a well run franchise. They know who they are and the type of team they want to be from the front office all the way to lowest level of the football staff. And they tend to draft guys who were really good college players that played against good competition and fit who the steelers want to be. Very little of the gene Smith small school sleepers. Or the baalke injured height weight guys. Simple but not easily repeatable unless you have a core principal of who you are as an organization. Which we don't. And havent for a long time.
I'd put the Ravens in the same group. My feeling is that they weigh game-tape much higher than combine numbers, which plays into your "good players that played good competition" point. Kyle Hamilton--Ravens safety taken at 14--is a great example of that. He was a top 3-10 player who got knocked down the draft board due to his slow(ish) 40-time when he ran 4.59. The Ravens loved his tape and scooped him up at 14, and he looks like an all-star.
It's pretty rare to have 6'4" strong safety and you can imagine how many passing lanes he takes away with his size alone. The one thing that the combine can't measure is instincts and heart. Teams that weigh the combine numbers heavily is why you see so many workout warriors taken ahead of where they should be based on their college performance.
Now there is nothing wrong with projects... They just belong at the 2nd-3rd day of the draft.
The Lions and Eagles as well. These teams were are talking about have some of the most stacked rosters in the league
(12-09-2024, 01:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2024, 12:38 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You haven't watched any Gator games lol. You think the highest rated center is the worst center in the league 2.0. Although you thought Fortner was our future at center even in his 2nd year when it was pretty clear. So maybe you saying Slaughter is Fortner 2.0 is you thinking Slaughter could be our future at center lol. Looks like pff is the one riding his junk. There are a few players I like in this class that I feel could be an upgrade but I want to see how they do at the combine as well and a few of them are in the playoffs so they could still raise or lower their stick depending on how they play when it matters most.
Again..."Highest rated" is "an opinion", which you seem to be bothered that I have because it conflicts with yours (and some ethereal authority to whom I should bow). It's interesting how you pretend that your leap to defend the sacred honor of Slaughter is anything but my criticism of your college fave. He's a guy, maybe he's the guy here, but you'll notice I'm not pissing and moaning about the Texas center to get you to see it my way. Because I'm not jock riding my college team like you tend to do.
That was from pff, highest graded, not my opinion.