I have a question for any of the lawyers on the board.
My wife and I purchased 2 vehicles recently. One brand new, one used with a 90 day 4500 mile warranty plus some factory powertrain as well.
Exactly 30 days after purchasing them, my wife takes the used vehicle on a long trip to FL and the transmission overheats. We get the vehicle to the destination and the dealer we purchased it from says to take it to a local dealer and see if it's under warranty.
The local dealer who inspected the vehicle where she is now, says it needs a transmission flush and that it's not under warranty since they consider it "maintenance" even though there is no mention on this needing to be done in the manual.
I want the dealer we purchased the vehicle from to cover the costs (only $250) due to the fact she hadn't even driven 1000 miles and was stranded on the side of the road with our 11 month old because the vehicle they sold us broke down. This was the first time the vehicle was driven more than 5-10 miles around town. The dealer says that they won't pay for it. When I bring up that it's not even in the manual and ask how I'm supposed to know to do "maintenance" that's not even mentioned, they respond with "well if you didn't know, how was I supposed to know?" They say that they won't pay for any maintenance costs yet I feel that this is something that should have been done by the dealership before we even purchased the vehicle. I would rather not pursue legal action, but if I have to I will if I have a case. It's not even a matter of it being a lot of money, it's that I feel they should make this right on a vehicle they sold, along with a little peace of mind for my family who got stranded.
How many miles were on the used car when you bought it?
Quote:How many miles were on the used car when you bought it?
59XXX and there are 60XXX on it now. It was less than 1000 driven when it broke.
You might have a case. you can file in small claims court. Small claims court decisions overwhelmingly side with the consumer. It is not a lot of money to file and usually the threat of going will be enough for you to get some kind of recourse from the seller. My wife and I have been willing to go to small claims court before and amazingly businesses quit trying to fight us. Only thing is, you will need to be willing to follow up the threat with actual action. There are a ton of tips for going to small claims court and they tend to side with the consumer. Here is an article about Ralph Nader using small claims court:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/your-m....html?_r=0
Good luck and let us know what you decide!
I would say that you may have a case, but would the court costs outweigh the savings of the work needed?
I'm not saying they would, of course, but it's worth bearing in mind.
Not a great help, I know, but good luck!
Screw court. Go to the media. Ken Amaro would foam at the mouth for a story about a mother and her infant stranded on the side of the road for hours because a shady dealership sold them a lemon.
If you ask me, I wouldn't waste my time or effort on a lawsuit. I would get rid of the vehicle ASAP.
If a transmission overheats and leaves a vehicle disabled, there is more going on than a simple transmission flush is going to "fix", especially if there is only 60,000 miles or so on it. The flush is necessary because the transmission fluid heated up to the point that it breaks down the lubrication properties of it. Putting new fluid in does not fix the problem, it only puts a bandaid on it. You WILL have the problem again.
I would take it back to the original dealership where you purchased it and trade it in for something else (assuming the dealership is a reputable one).
What year/make/model of vehicle is it?
A transmission flush won't fix an overheating transmission anyways. There is an internal problem with the intercooler or the valve body. When you say it overheated what exactly happened?
Get a third opinion to find out if that is the exact cause of why the transmission messed up.
It's a 2012 Jeep Patriot. The CVT transmissions are notorious for fluid degradation. As the CVT fluid breaks down it gets foamy as it heats up which hinders it's ability to transfer heat resulting in the transmission overheating, and requiring the vehicle to sit until the transmission is cooled. It can then be driven again but will overheat again and again until the old fluid is replaced.
It's a common problem with these transmissions and anecdotally considered to be fixed with a flush, however it is not considered to be standard maintenance or a recall. Without flushing, the continuance of over heating can lead to full transmission failure resulting in needing a new one, however I have 40k more miles of powertrain warranty. To be honest, it would be easier if the transmission had just flat out broke.
I have no desire to purchase another vehicle from this dealership again, as has been suggested. I simply want them to do what I feel is right and cover the costs of fixing a vehicle they just sold me. I don't understand how I'm responsible to replace the fluid in a transmission of a vehicle I've owned for 30 days just because the dealer "didn't know" it needed to be done.
What was the exact language of the warranty?
Quote:It's a 2012 Jeep Patriot. The CVT transmissions are notorious for fluid degradation. As the CVT fluid breaks down it gets foamy as it heats up which hinders it's ability to transfer heat resulting in the transmission overheating, and requiring the vehicle to sit until the transmission is cooled. It can then be driven again but will overheat again and again until the old fluid is replaced.
It's a common problem with these transmissions and anecdotally considered to be fixed with a flush, however it is not considered to be standard maintenance or a recall. Without flushing, the continuance of over heating can lead to full transmission failure resulting in needing a new one, however I have 40k more miles of powertrain warranty. To be honest, it would be easier if the transmission had just flat out broke.
I have no desire to purchase another vehicle from this dealership again, as has been suggested. I simply want them to do what I feel is right and cover the costs of fixing a vehicle they just sold me. I don't understand how I'm responsible to replace the fluid in a transmission of a vehicle I've owned for 30 days just because the dealer "didn't know" it needed to be done.
CVT Transmission fluid isn't supposed to be changed out until 100k. It can cause overheating but at that point changing the fluid will not fix the problem. The CVT transmission runs off pulleys and belts instead of progressing through traditional gears. When you say it overheated did it lock up? When it cools off does it then progress through the "shifting" like normal? There's two internal thermostats in that Transmission it's more likely one of them is getting stuck closed. Like I said a flush isn't going to "fix" anything, it's just maintenance, just like changing your oil won't fix tapping valves....
Does the Lemon Law exist there? I'd return the car and look elsewhere.
Eric would know more than me x1000 but I wouldn't consider that normal maintenance at all. Sounds fishy to me and definitely not something you should be dealing with on a car with that kind of mileage.
Also, yes the car should come with all maintenance prepped.
OK, I'll be the first to say it. After owning Jeep/Chrysler vehicles in the past (Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Ram Pickup). Get rid of the vehicle as fast as you can and get something else. If anything, listen to what EricC85 is telling you. He's a mechanic and is pretty much saying what I said earlier. Flushing the transmission and putting in new fluid is not going to "fix" anything. It's just going to put a "band-aid" on the problem. Just my personal opinion, but Chrysler has really gone down in quality. I personally was done with them when our Grand Cherokee was having problems at around the 50k or 60k mark, and the last straw was when my truck was literally falling apart at just over 100k.
While yes, part of the transmission fluid's job is to aid in cooling, the major job it does is to lubricate. There is a reason that the transmission got hot and heated up the fluid. Putting new fluid in it MIGHT get you another 60k miles out of it, but I would wager that total transmission failure happens before then.
As far as a lawsuit, in my opinion it would be kind of dumb. Assuming that you win, you potentially could save yourself the cost of putting the band-aid on your problem. If you lose, you would be out that much more money. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't want to gamble the cost, time and effort in order to recover $250. If you lose it will cost you more than that.
I've never heard of a transmission overheating! I would return that car to the dealer right away.
I never have, and never will, own a Chrysler product. When shopping for a car I don't even consider them as an option.
Quote:I never have, and never will, own a Chrysler product. When shopping for a car I don't even consider them as an option.
Not even the legendary PT Cruiser?
Well, I didn't want to get my wife a new car to begin with, but she did. So we compromised and she got a new vehicle. As for small claims court, it's $30 to file, which in itself may be enough for them to settle before accruing additional court costs.
As for the Jeep, I do have a full powertrain warranty until 100k. I'll have her take it to another Jeep dealer to get another opinion before I pursue this any further. Like I said, I'd rather the transmission had just broken completely, that way warranty would fully cover it.
Quote:What was the exact language of the warranty?
This is the key. Please review the 90-day warranty that you received from the dealership when you bought the used vehicle. If there indeed is a warranty and was not sold "as is" then in addition to the explicit terms written within the provisions of the Warranty Agreement, you may also be able to cite Implied Warranties and Warranty of Merchantability as described below. Note: Most warranties do state that the only Warranty that applies is the express warrarnties within the Agreement so if that is the case, implied warranties would not be applicable. Express Warranties are those that are "written" into the Agreement and done so to prevent implied warranties or a verbal warranty such as a salesman telling you he'll cover repairs for 6 months when the Agreement only states 90 days.
Implied Warranties
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, sans-serif;">State laws hold dealers responsible if cars they sell don't meet reasonable quality standards. These obligations are called implied warranties — unspoken, unwritten promises from the seller to the buyer. However, dealers in most states can use the words "as is" or "with all faults" in a written notice to buyers to eliminate implied warranties. There is no specified time period for implied warranties.
Warranty of Merchantability
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, sans-serif;">The most common type of implied warranty is the warranty of merchantability: The seller promises that the product offered for sale will do what it's supposed to. That a car will run is an example of a warranty of merchantability. This promise applies to the basic functions of a car. It does not cover everything that could go wrong.
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', helvetica, sans-serif;">Breakdowns and other problems after the sale don't prove the seller breached the warranty of merchantability. A breach occurs only if the buyer can prove that a defect existed at the time of sale. A problem that occurs after the sale may be the result of a defect that existed at the time of sale or not. As a result, a dealer's liability is judged case by case.
Quote:Well, I didn't want to get my wife a new car to begin with, but she did. So we compromised and she got a new vehicle. As for small claims court, it's $30 to file, which in itself may be enough for them to settle before accruing additional court costs.
As for the Jeep, I do have a full powertrain warranty until 100k. I'll have her take it to another Jeep dealer to get another opinion before I pursue this any further. Like I said, I'd rather the transmission had just broken completely, that way warranty would fully cover it.
You could also file a complaint with the BBB.