I am in the group that thinks a major overhaul is needed at the OL in order for this offense to become balanced and successful. With that said, Caldwell's history of drafting OL and signing FAs gives me little confidence that he can fix it. I hope TC is the one calling the shots when it comes to OL:
Draft History:
Luke Joeckel (2nd overall)- Complete bust
Brandon Linder (3rd round)- best pick/addition from Caldwell
Luke Bowanko (6th round)- Incomplete grade due to injury. Showed promise but hasn't developed into a starter after starting multiple games early in his career.
AJ Cann (3rd round)- Played poorly last year. Wont call him a bust yet but looks to be just another guy (JAG).
FA History:
Parnell- He's played okay. Average starter IMO. Could be upgraded.
Beadles- Bust
Beachum- Bust (team didn't exercise the 4 year option, left after 1 year)
Wisniewski- Bust (team didn't resign, left after 1 year)
Trade:
Brandon Albert- Unknown
So in 4 years and 8 moves, Caldwell has produced 1 above average, long term starter...
When you wonder why we have one of the worst rushing attacks, see above. Hopefully the coaching/culture and scheme change yield better results but a talent influx is needed. If I'm TC, I'm investing 2 picks between rounds 2-4 on a starting LG and a tackle.
Quote:I am in the group that thinks a major overhaul is needed at the OL in order for this offense to become balanced and successful. With that said, Caldwell's history of drafting OL and signing FAs gives me little confidence that he can fix it. I hope TC is the one calling the shots when it comes to OL:
Draft History:
Luke Joeckel (2nd overall)- Complete bust
Brandon Linder (3rd round)- best pick/addition from Caldwell
Luke Bowanko (6th round)- Incomplete grade due to injury. Showed promise but hasn't developed into a starter after starting multiple games early in his career.
AJ Cann (3rd round)- Played poorly last year. Wont call him a bust yet but looks to be just another guy (JAG).
FA History:
Parnell- He's played okay. Average starter IMO. Could be upgraded.
Beadles- Bust
Beachum- Bust (team didn't exercise the 4 year option, left after 1 year)
Wisniewski- Bust (team didn't resign, left after 1 year)
Trade:
Brandon Albert- Unknown
So in 4 years and 8 moves, Caldwell has produced 1 above average, long term starter...
When you wonder why we have one of the worst rushing attacks, see above. Hopefully the coaching/culture and scheme change yield better results but a talent influx is needed. If I'm TC, I'm investing 2 picks between rounds 2-4 on a starting LG and a tackle.
I'd like to see them kick parnell inside and see what he could do at guard. He's a big boy and seems to struggle against faster edge rushers. I think he'd be more successful inside. I do agree though that we should spend a couple of picks in rounds 2-4 on the line though. I think it's clearly the weakest part of our team.
I can't even give Caldwell credit for drafting Lindo. Jedd Fisch was the OC at the time and coached both Lindor and Hurns in college and probably suggested that team draft/sign those 2
Quote:I can't even give Caldwell credit for drafting Lindo. Jedd Fisch was the OC at the time and coached both Lindor and Hurns in college and probably suggested that team draft/sign those 2
GMs don't always listen to scouts/coaches on draft day.
Our new Oline guy Pat Flaherty has a real good track record of developing effective lines. Wouldn't be surprised if Marrone and him have faith in their ability to make a good line out of what we have, although we probably should draft another body in the first few rounds to beef it up
The team's offensive line moves have been dreadful.
Going into last season with Mackenzie Bernadeau as the left guard was a recipe for disaster, and he did not even make it out of the preseason.
The spend millions on free agents, but couldn't spring for a decent guard like Jeff Allen or Brandon Brooks?
And it's the same story this offseason. They are going cheap at left guard again. And it's going to bite them in the butt. God help us if Linder gets hurt again. And Albert does not exactly have a great track record of staying healthy.
Quote:The team's offensive line moves have been dreadful.
Going into last season with Mackenzie Bernadeau as the left guard was a recipe for disaster, and he did not even make it out of the preseason.
The spend millions on free agents, but couldn't spring for a decent guard like Jeff Allen or Brandon Brooks?
And it's the same story this offseason. They are going cheap at left guard again. And it's going to bite them in the butt. God help us if Linder gets hurt again. And Albert does not exactly have a great track record of staying healthy.
Caldwell has failed to address the line properly in the draft and it's been a grave error on his part.
But Joeckel was supposed to play left guard - not Bernadeau.
Bernadeau wasn't an intended starter. He was just part of the competition at the position. Unfortunately it turned out to be a competition that yielded it's best performance from Patrick Omameh.
Dave/TC desperately need to find a starting guard in this draft.
I'm noticing a few options for quality day-one starters at G in rounds two and three, but I really don't see the OTs that would represent any sort of an ugrade.
We didn't sign anyone worth a squat and it's foolish to rely on a rookie of any sort. I'd expect more of the same regarding the oline, and that's a shame because we've been largely terrible there for a very long time now, which is helping contribute to these QBs busting that we've drafted the last 10 years.
Quote:I'm noticing a few options for quality day-one starters at G in rounds two and three, but I really don't see the OTs that would represent any sort of an ugrade.
Trading back and drafting Lamp very well could be the best possible outcome for the Jags in this draft. Fournette or Howard would help too, but our oline situation is and has been dire.
I'm still glad we didn't give Zeitler 12 mil per year. Ask the titns what overpaying for Andy Levitre (the best pass blocking guard ever, their fans said) felt like when they found out he was actually pretty average.
Quote:We didn't sign anyone worth a squat and it's foolish to rely on a rookie of any sort.
While I can understand the concept here ^, it's fairly common for teams to get quality starts on the interior O-Line from rookies selected in the first three rounds.
While Brandon Linder is the obvious example - the Chiefs Center - Mitch Morse - was selected #45 in 2015 - played solid as a rookie and looked very good in his second year in 2016.
The Bucs selected guard Ali Marpet at #61 of the same draft and he's also looked like a quality starter.
There are lots of these types starting on the interior of NFL offensive lines. While you may not be able to absolutely "rely" on it -- landing a starting guard at #35 and/or #68 is not a stretch.
Quote:While I can understand the concept here ^, it's fairly common for teams to get quality starts on the interior O-Line from rookies selected in the first three rounds.
While Brandon Linder is the obvious example - the Chiefs Center - Mitch Morse - was selected #45 in 2015 - played solid as a rookie and looked very good in his second year in 2016.
The Bucs selected guard Ali Marpet at #61 of the same draft and he's also looked like a quality starter.
There are lots of these types starting on the interior of NFL offensive lines. While you may not be able to absolutely "rely" on it -- landing a starting guard at #35 and/or #68 is not a stretch.
The problem is they essentially swapped Beachum for Albert and have nothing else.
Parnell was bad last year, and is penciled in as starter.
Cann was bad last year, and is penciled in as starter.
Right now the left guard starter is probably Omameh or somebody called Earl Watford.
I just don't understand the lack of urgency in upgrading the interior line the past two offseasons.
You had Ronald Leary, Kevin Zeitler and Larry Warford hit free agency. And the team seemingly showed no interest in any of the three.
Ramsey was a no-brainer and we were fortunate for him to fall to us, but outside that I'm not sure what Calwell is good at drafting outside WR.
He drafted Julio Jones in ATL, and Robinson and Lee here.
Ngakoue was a good value, but that's negated by Fowler who wasn't.
I agree the Miami ties helped make the calls with both Linder and Hurns.
Hopefully he's getting some pointers from Coughlin in both FA and draft, because I don't have confidence in him at this point.
Quote:Caldwell has failed to address the line properly in the draft and it's been a grave error on his part.
But Joeckel was supposed to play left guard - not Bernadeau.
Bernadeau wasn't an intended starter. He was just part of the competition at the position. Unfortunately it turned out to be a competition that yielded it's best performance from Patrick Omameh.
Dave/TC desperately need to find a starting guard in this draft.
True. I guess I was thinking when camp/preseason opened, and Joeckel was at left tackle (Beachum had not practiced) and Bernadeau at left guard.
Quote:Our new Oline guy Pat Flaherty has a real good track record of developing effective lines. Wouldn't be surprised if Marrone and him have faith in their ability to make a good line out of what we have, although we probably should draft another body in the first few rounds to beef it up
Also, Coughlin has a really good track record of drafting offensive linemen as well.
Calling Parnell an average starter and saying he played O.K. is being very generous.
Coughlin knows how to put together an O-line. I think we will use 1 or 2 picks on it.
I don't like much of what Caldwell has done in the draft period. I hope Coughlin can right this ship.
Quote:Calling Parnell an average starter and saying he played O.K. is being very generous.
He had only allowed one sack through 7 games and everyone was singing his praises. Then Dee Ford happened and a couple more bad games and the pitchforks came out. It was also mentioned that he sustained an injury at some point in that stretch and played through it for several of those games. Then he had a nice couple more games to end the season, supposedly once he finally got healthy again.
I think there's enough reasons to think he might be a passable option for now, especially if we give him help against the small lightning quick pass rushers that are becoming more popular on the RT side. That said, I also think he would be fine at guard if we did draft Moton or someone on day 2. I'd certainly be happy with that too.