Quote:What do you do to help change how you're affected?
What do you do to change the affects of it?
Or do you think that because Obama is president; racism has been solved and there is no issue? Do you think we are a post-racial country?
I am not black. I see things in terms of class. But I'm not dumb enough to think that race doesn't exacerbate the class struggle for black dudes in terms of law enforcement and black women in terms of social standards--specifically in the avenue of beauty.
But if you think that's not the case, please explain why.
Quote:Did you bother even listening to what he had to say?
Did you bother replying to my post about you not reading what I wrote?
Quote:It (police brutality) has nothing to do with race. That's part of the point.
The other part of the point that Ray Lewis was making in his video is that it's time for blacks to stop blaming other people for their plight.
If you really want true and honest dialog regarding the issue, then do so openly and honestly.
What do you honestly think about the number of shootings and killings in Chicago that are black-on-black? Is it the white man's fault? Is it the fault of police?
Two separate problems. Again, you don't care. If you did you might listen to people are in a better position to tell you what it's like to be them.
Quote:I'm curious if you will defend Michael Brown with the same breath you condemn Ray Lewis.
What does that have to do with anything. Scumbags really have no place spouting self righteous moral platitudes. If that term fits Brown than yeah I would feel the exact same way.
Quote:It (police brutality) has nothing to do with race. That's part of the point.
The other part of the point that Ray Lewis was making in his video is that it's time for blacks to stop blaming other people for their plight.
If you really want true and honest dialog regarding the issue, then do so openly and honestly.
What do you honestly think about the number of shootings and killings in Chicago that are black-on-black? Is it the white man's fault? Is it the fault of police?
Police brutality has nothing to do with race?
Do you realize going back to the Civil Rights Era, police sic dogs on minorities because of their race.
Fast forward to now, there is a major police corruption scandal brewing with the NYPD
http://nypost.com/tag/nypd-corruption-scandal/
For whatever reason, you keep trying to equate Police brutality to Black on black crime which are 2 seperate issues. Do you want black people to be more vocal against crimes in our own communities and completely ignore police brutality and racial profiling?
Black on black crime is a issue that the black community must take responsibility for. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system continues to be a breeding ground and does not rehabilitate individuals, let alone reduce the recidivism rate of black males which is a systematic issue, and breakdown.
You can point the finger and say black people should behave better. ya ya ya, but the reality is African Americans have historically been at the bottom when it comes to earned income, and quality education, while being higher when it comes to welfare and poverty.
Quote:What do you do to change the affects of it?
Or do you think that because Obama is president; racism has been solved and there is no issue? Do you think we are a post-racial country?
I am not black. I see things in terms of class. But I'm not dumb enough to think that race doesn't exacerbate the class struggle for black dudes in terms of law enforcement and black women in terms of social standards--specifically in the avenue of beauty.
But if you think that's not the case, please explain why.
I asked a man who consistently brings up race and how it's an issue and who leads us to believe it affects his daily life a simple question. I didn't get a simple answer. In fact, I got no answer at all. Instead, I get a reply from someone else asking me what I do to change it. Not only is that a poor response by attempting to shift the "blame" for lack of other words, but it implies that it's my issue to change solely. You later in your post claim to be "not dumb" so surely you understand it's not a one man effort or even a one race effort to solve it. And, I'd agree with you there! Throughout my life, whenever I have had struggles big or small, I've been proactive in making changes in my life to better the situation. So, I'll go ahead and answer the question since no one pulling the race card or equality card will. My answer is, not a a damn thing. If one isn't willing to try to help themselves, I'm not going to break my back to meet you over on your side or hand things out. There needs to be a joint effort.
In reference to your Obama, I laughed. Do I believe racism has been solved because of him? Of course not, he's making it worse. So, don't try to use that against me. For the record, Obama isn't the solution to anything, let alone race relations.
As to your last paragraph, I believe that's been covered more than enough in another thread to put the time and effort into trying to explain it here.
I'll ask again, for those who are feeling that they are having daily struggles due to their race what are you doing to help the issue? I'm not looking to bait anyone into a pre meditated argument. It's a simple question that I'm curious to know the answer to.
I don't think you're baiting, Jags... And maybe my response to you was too cute by half. My point is, that I think your question is a rhetorical one... One which is used as a device by some to flip the blame from brutality on innocent people back on to them.
Philando Castile and the therapist in miami were doing all the right things and were still shot. So, there comes a time when no matter how much you comply, it appears that there is a subset of terrible cops that are just gonna shoot you, or pull you over, or give you a hard time, just for being black. And it's happening in every community all across the country. Not all of these encounters end in murder. Some of them just end with humiliation. But humiliation is still oppression and it's still brutality.
Heck, Niel Degrasse Tyson, you know the black physicist, talks about how he's been harassed and humiliated by police authority. Now he hasn't been shot, but the pervasive feeling within the black community is that they are profiled and sought after more than other classes or races just because of their skin color.
How much more should Niel Degrasse Tyson do? Should he work on a vaccine that cures blackness? Maybe an aggressive vitiligo serum that works instantly?
Quote:I don't think you're baiting, Jags... And maybe my response to you was too cute by half. My point is, that I think your question is a rhetorical one... One which is used as a device by some to flip the blame from brutality on innocent people back on to them.
Philando Castile and the therapist in miami were doing all the right things and were still shot. So, there comes a time when no matter how much you comply, it appears that there is a subset of terrible cops that are just gonna shoot you, or pull you over, or give you a hard time, just for being black. And it's happening in every community all across the country. Not all of these encounters end in murder. Some of them just end with humiliation. But humiliation is still oppression and it's still brutality.
I'm not sure it is rhetorical. Am I flipping blame? I don't think so. I think it takes two to tango. I think it takes effort on both sides to better understand each other and both sides take action to try to eliminate it. I say try because it'll never completely go away. You'll have die hard racists scum on both sides. That is if we are just talking black and white to keep the debate simple.
As for the police shootings, I'll bite. From what little we know about the Miami incident it looks suspicious. It seems at first glance the officer is not fit for the job. Sometimes people can get all the training in the world yet, can't seem to get it right or handle it. Maybe recent news events were in his head at the time and was on edge or whatever. Idk. But before officially calling the office a complete screw up I would like to get the rest of the facts and hear what the department has to say about it.
I'm not saying police are above the law, I'm not saying there aren't racist cops. But I hit up my good friend Google to try to get a little more info on amount of arrests per year made by law enforcement, how many fatal shootings, and how many of the suspects were armed. I couldn't find recent years number of arrests. I didn't search forever, but I saw in 2012 there were almost 12.2 million arrests. I'd say it's safe to say in 2015 there were more than that. With 12.2 million arrest or more a year, that equates to almost 33,400 arrests made per day. Ok, so let's look at the shootings. I did find info for 2015. So apples/oranges, whatever, it's the best I could find in my brief search. In 2015 there were 965 fatalities by police, or 2.6 per day. Of those 965 or 2.6 per day only 90 of suspects were unarmed. Even in some of those cases I'm willing to bet a lot of those were justified. I don't bring this up to suggest the small amount of lives lost do not matter. Of course they matter. But what I am trying to get at, is that due to the vast number of arrests made there is an almost certainty that accidents, mistakes, and poor judgment will be made. And considering that 2.6 people were shot and killed per day we are only hearing about a case every few weeks and they all with black victims. So either A, all the others are justified, B, only black people get shot by cops, C the media isn't showing you the white or Hispanic fatalities, D the cop on black shootings isn't the huge epidemic as some are claiming or E a combination of the previous.
Quote:Police brutality has nothing to do with race?
Do you realize going back to the Civil Rights Era, police sic dogs on minorities because of their race.
Fast forward to now, there is a major police corruption scandal brewing with the NYPD
http://nypost.com/tag/nypd-corruption-scandal/
For whatever reason, you keep trying to equate Police brutality to Black on black crime which are 2 seperate issues. Do you want black people to be more vocal against crimes in our own communities and completely ignore police brutality and racial profiling?
Black on black crime is a issue that the black community must take responsibility for. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system continues to be a breeding ground and does not rehabilitate individuals, let alone reduce the recidivism rate of black males which is a systematic issue, and breakdown.
You can point the finger and say black people should behave better. ya ya ya, but the reality is African Americans have historically been at the bottom when it comes to earned income, and quality education, while being higher when it comes to welfare and poverty.
And why is that? I'm certainly sure that in predominately black schools the children are taught that 2+2=4 the same way that children in predominately white schools are.
Quote:And why is that? I'm certainly sure that in predominately black schools the children are taught that 2+2=4 the same way that children in predominately white schools are.
The resources are lacking.
Quote:The resources are lacking.
What resources specifically? Trained teachers? Infrastructure?
I'll ask this with all due respect, but are "typical white children" taught not to "snitch" on a regular basis? Where does that lesson come from? It certainly doesn't come from any school curriculum that I know of. Do black people not get chastised for "acting white" or "talking white"? Do black children get picked on in school for doing well and earning good grades? Are prominent black members that are openly Republican attacked with vicious insults?
Quote:What resources specifically? Trained teachers? Infrastructure?
I'll ask this with all due respect, but are "typical white children" taught not to "snitch" on a regular basis? Where does that lesson come from? It certainly doesn't come from any school curriculum that I know of. Do black people not get chastised for "acting white" or "talking white"? Do black children get picked on in school for doing well and earning good grades? Are prominent black members that are openly Republican attacked with vicious insults?
Yes white kids are taught not to snitch and yes white kids get picked on in schools for doing well and earning good grades.
Quote:What resources specifically? Trained teachers? Infrastructure?
I'll ask this with all due respect, but are "typical white children" taught not to "snitch" on a regular basis? Where does that lesson come from? It certainly doesn't come from any school curriculum that I know of. Do black people not get chastised for "acting white" or "talking white"? Do black children get picked on in school for doing well and earning good grades? Are prominent black members that are openly Republican attacked with vicious insults?
The quality of the teachers and resources to help develop and mentor teachers is lacking in minority communities. Yes, Parental support is a huge issue, but the parents I know who have their kids attend said schools and are enrolled in the AP classes are saying the materials are lacking.
In regards to the no snitch culture, you can say its synonymous with black culture, but if you look across all demographics that are poor, who violent you can find the no snitch rule exists there. In regards to black people being chastised for "acting white" I would say that can be applied to individuals who dont identify with being black. Those individuals no longer identifies with their culture and feels the need to either separate themselves or look to fit in with others who are not of their racial makeup.
Black children dont get picked on for making good grades.
There sure are a lot of stereotypes being thrown around by a person who has probably been stereotyped his entire life. I guess that's just fine for some people though I imagine said poster would take umbrage should that be turned on him.
"First they came for...."
Quote:There sure are a lot of stereotypes being thrown around by a person who has probably been stereotyped his entire life. I guess that's just fine for some people though I imagine said poster would take umbrage should that be turned on him.
"First they came for...."
I'm not throwing out stereotypes at all, I'm throwing out facts. Until we all can come to a point where we can talk candidly about the problems in today's society the problems will never be fixed. Throwing money and resources at the problem doesn't work, unless those resources happen to be from the very community in question.
Let me throw this out there without knowing all of the facts. Why is it that the nightclub shooting in Ft. Meyers has pretty much disappeared from the media? Is it because the perp(s) in this case were not Islamic? Nope. It's because it was another case of black-on-black crime.
From what I understand from the limited information out there, the shooting took place because of something to do with a rap performance or non-performance.
Now let's be honest and candid about it. Is a rap performance common at a place frequented by whites and/or Hispanics?
Another thing that I saw was that there were people there that ranged in age from 12 - 27. Would a responsible parent allow their 12 year old child to go to a
club to interact with people in their 20's at 12:30 at night?
It's odd how we haven't seen pictures of the victims of the shooting. It's odd that the story has disappeared from the media. Do the black lives of the children killed matter?
Quote:I'm not throwing out stereotypes at all, I'm throwing out facts. Until we all can come to a point where we can talk candidly about the problems in today's society the problems will never be fixed. Throwing money and resources at the problem doesn't work, unless those resources happen to be from the very community in question.
Let me throw this out there without knowing all of the facts. Why is it that the nightclub shooting in Ft. Meyers has pretty much disappeared from the media? Is it because the perp(s) in this case were not Islamic? Nope. It's because it was another case of black-on-black crime.
From what I understand from the limited information out there, the shooting took place because of something to do with a rap performance or non-performance.
Now let's be honest and candid about it. Is a rap performance common at a place frequented by whites and/or Hispanics?
Another thing that I saw was that there were people there that ranged in age from 12 - 27. Would a responsible parent allow their 12 year old child to go to a club to interact with people in their 20's at 12:30 at night?
It's odd how we haven't seen pictures of the victims of the shooting. It's odd that the story has disappeared from the media. Do the black lives of the children killed matter?
It's funny I've seen a lot of news coverage regarding the shooting in Ft. Meyers.
Now I've admitted as a collective black people have to be more accountable. I really haven't seen you do the same for police officers.
Quote:I'm not throwing out stereotypes at all, I'm throwing out facts. Until we all can come to a point where we can talk candidly about the problems in today's society the problems will never be fixed. Throwing money and resources at the problem doesn't work, unless those resources happen to be from the very community in question.
Let me throw this out there without knowing all of the facts. Why is it that the nightclub shooting in Ft. Meyers has pretty much disappeared from the media? Is it because the perp(s) in this case were not Islamic? Nope. It's because it was another case of black-on-black crime.
From what I understand from the limited information out there, the shooting took place because of something to do with a rap performance or non-performance.
Now let's be honest and candid about it. Is a rap performance common at a place frequented by whites and/or Hispanics?
Another thing that I saw was that there were people there that ranged in age from 12 - 27. Would a responsible parent allow their 12 year old child to go to a club to interact with people in their 20's at 12:30 at night?
It's odd how we haven't seen pictures of the victims of the shooting. It's odd that the story has disappeared from the media. Do the black lives of the children killed matter?
I understand you trying to prove a point, please be considerate of the kids who lost their lives while doing so... Kids who were enjoying their summer break, going to a party, the last fun thing they will do over the summer before school starts in a few weeks..
The reason the nightclub shooting is not all over the media is because they have 3 suspect's in custody. What else is there to report on?? Kids got killed and hurt...
A couple of rotten apples doesnt define the bunch. And what are you implying when asking" are rap performances common at a place frequented by Whites or Hispanic" I guess it depends on the place. Or where you just insinuating that rap music basically killed these kids?
Look should some of the kids been out that late? No imo, but we dont know what the kids told their parents. Its really sad to be honest...
Quote:I understand you trying to prove a point, please be considerate of the kids who lost their lives while doing so... Kids who were enjoying their summer break, going to a party, the last fun thing they will do over the summer before school starts in a few weeks..
The reason the nightclub shooting is not all over the media is because they have 3 suspect's in custody. What else is there to report on?? Kids got killed and hurt...
A couple of rotten apples doesnt define the bunch. And what are you implying when asking" are rap performances common at a place frequented by Whites or Hispanic" I guess it depends on the place. Or where you just insinuating that rap music basically killed these kids?
Look should some of the kids been out that late? No imo, but we dont know what the kids told their parents. Its really sad to be honest...
First of all, I agree with you that a couple of rotten apples doesn't define the bunch. I also wasn't insinuating that rap music basically killed those kids. The point that I'm making is if black lives really matter, why doesn't the organization come out and say something about this? Where is Al Sharpton? For the record it does appear that both the suspects picked up by police in relation to this murder as well as the victims are all black. What else is there to report on? Perhaps a motive would be a start.
This is a very good example of exactly what Ray Lewis was talking about in the linked video. That's what I'm pointing out.