Quote:Just have to laugh about the hyperbole around Joeckel. While the guy is a bust from the standpoint of his draft position, he's not a bad tackle. For some perspective, he gave up 7.5 sacks last year. Beachum, the guy that is supposed to be the savior of the offensive line gave up 8 in 2014. If you're not happy with the way LJ plays, I get it, he should be a lot better but he's not even close to being terrible.
^^ Excellent post, I completely agree with that.
Joeckel was not that bad for most of the season last year. Yes, the Houston game was dreadful. It happened to be the last game, and the image that is left in most fans' minds. Joeckel was decent in most of the other games last year.
Every LT in the game gives up sacks and penalties at some point. I watch Whitworth dominate for Cincy just about every week. But, he also gives up a sack/pressure or has a big penalty in every game. It happens.
Joeckel definitely could be better, but he's not terrible IMO.
Again, these are NO PADS Practices. Very misleading and hard to tell reality when these guys are barely going at each other.
Heck, even preseason is very misleading to the eyes. Personally, I'll wait for the regular season to make my own judgements.
During then, if Joeckel is "garbage" and playing dreadful as most fans here say, I'm sure it won't be long until another player is in that spot most games.
Joeckel just having one of his patented meltdown plays.
Luke putting to much weight on his the ball of his left foot which means he's over extended. That is why the inside move worked so well. With out seeing more I would assume its because he's worried about Fowlers speed to the outside. On Fowlers side I think he did a great job of recognizing that Luke was overextended that was not a premeditated move. In all would say Luke made a small technique error but Dante did a great job.
Quote:Luke putting to much weight on his the ball of his left foot which means he's over extended. That is why the inside move worked so well. With out seeing more I would assume its because he's worried about Fowlers speed to the outside. On Fowlers side I think he did a great job of recognizing that Luke was overextended that was not a premeditated move. In all would say Luke made a small technique error but Dante did a great job.
Similar to what you write, but boselli has reviewed joeckels film and he says that most of his sacks are technique errors. It's almost never that he gets beaten because he's not fast or strong enough.
Almost always it's because his hands are in the wrong position, poor footwork, or keeping his head down. Even Boselli (who is a huge jags and joeckel homer) said that at a certain point you either got it or you don't, he shouldn't be making those errors that frequently anymore.
Quote:Yep, making it up...come on now. The article you linked even states that Big Ben's sack percentage improved when Beach was replaced with the ex-Army Ranger Villanueva. As for majority sad to see him go, there are people on this board now still crying about Monroe being replaced. That dude just got booted from the Ravens and will be sitting on his thumbs until someone gets injured. Does nobody question why the Steelers didn't offer Beach a high dollar contract? I mean PFF ranked him top 10. LOL. Why did the Jags only sign him on a one year deal?
From Steelerdepot.com:
"I understand LT is a premium position and Beach is the third best OL the team has."
"There is absolutely zero chance that the Steelers will hand this stiff $8-$9 million per year. If he hits the open market tell me one team that would pay him anything close to that. You are essentially negotiating against yourself with this guy. If I'm the Steelers, I make him a take-it-or-leave-it offer...$4-$5 million per year with a $3 million signing bonus. Watch him get bulldozed against the Ravens in that playoff game and tell me this bum is worth $9 million per year."
"Although I agree with you about Beachum being at worst a average left tackle. I definitely feel like we should give him a take it or leave it deal. IMO Beachum, Gilbert and Worilds were or are all average players for us that deserve take it or leave it deals."
"If you read the comment in relation to the thread? I stipulated that it would require specific circumstances for me to not worry about letting Beachum go.
That being said, I like Beach, but anyone with half an objective bone in his body can see he has some serious holes in his game. Like I said, I think he's at least an average OT, I'm just not totally convinced he's better than that yet."
Look, I get it, people are desperate for a LT, but the blind optimism is scary, especially when facts are staring them in the face. Meh.
So you start your post about how bad he is and then post quotes saying he's "at worst average"
Gotcha
I don't think it's that much of an error per say he wasn't perfect but then again I never played at that level I think it was a very small mistake I don't believe it was blatant I think more credit is do to Fowler than blame to Luke if you watch Luke inside leg he has balance he just committed to a speed rush and got the fake from what I saw
Quote:So you start your post about how bad he is and then post quotes saying he's "at worst average"
Gotcha
It makes sense to him in his head.
Quote:So you start your post about how bad he is and then post quotes saying he's "at worst average"
Gotcha
Did you have something substantial to add? Feel free to show where any of my posts show I said he was bad. Don't let your man crush get in the way of objectivity.
You're ok with trying to replace average with average....Gotcha.
So even though he got beat I wouldn't use this as a measuring stick d line is typically ahead of o line this time of year think pitchers and Hitters in spring ball also it's harder to block someone who isn't wearing shoulder pads
Quote:So even though he got beat I wouldn't use this as a measuring stick d line is typically ahead of o line this time of year think pitchers and Hitters in spring ball also it's harder to block someone who isn't wearing shoulder pads
I agree, maybe not a measuring stick, but I think you can glean some insight to technique as it pertains to foot work and hand placement. As far as Fowler goes, it does appear he will be a disruptor no matter where he lines up.
What if Fowler Jr. really is that good and he makes Joeckel better. Or Beachum. Whoever is starting
What if Fowler Jr. really is that good and he makes Joeckel better. Or Beachum. Whoever is starting
If Fowler comes in playing like Jevon Kearse, then I think we are a playoff team.
Quote:I see these posts and believe they have legitimate points.
But suddenly I remembered Lageman & Boselli saying words to the effect of "You can't tell who CAN play during OTAs, but you can tell who CAN'T."
Perhaps, with a legit pass rusher in front of him during OTAs, we have an even better evaluation of whether Joeckel can play (if the games over 2.5 years haven't told us enough).
Its just really hard to judge.. Because these guys not gonna hit each other like they would if they had pads on.. But i do believe Ota's can expose the less skilled.
Quote:You mad bro?
F for originality. What are ya 12?
Quote:Numerous reports of the Joke getting abused by Fowler on both days of camp. This play scares me for Blakes sake.
https://gfycat.com/FoolishMammothCatfish
Probably both. The Joke just hasn't impressed anyone except the professional sunshine blowers. And lets face it, how hard is it for someone like Fowler to look awesome against the Joke? Exactly.
Quote:Probably both. The Joke just hasn't impressed anyone except the professional sunshine blowers. And lets face it, how hard is it for someone like Fowler to look awesome against the Joke? Exactly.
He's impressed the coaches enough to keep him in the starting lineup although giving him competition is the smart thing to do. But of course, everyone knows that we're way smarter than the coaches are. Well, I am anyway.
Quote:Lol at the guy posting up 1 gif of Beachum giving up a sack. Steelers fans liked him, I doubt they'd like him if that was his standard type of play.
What? Its been common knowledge that the steelers line hasn't been good the last couple season outside of Pouncey at center. Thats why Ben has been injured so much. Expectations need to be tempered here.
Joeckel needed legitimate competition behind him at LT. He'll have it this year with Beachum. I am on the fence when it comes to Joeckel. Is he an all-star? No. Is he the worst LT we've ever had? No. When you look back at the 1st RD draft class. I think maybe three players still stand out. Lane Johnson, OT with the Eagles who was a bit raw coming out. Ansah at DE for the Lions who probably should have been our pick but we can't win them all. And then I think it's either Richardson or Wilkerson that the Jets took that year that's stood out so far.