We Jaguars fans have been quite enthusiastic about the talent infusion the last 2-3 offseasons have provided, to the point where most, if not all Jaguars fans are prepared to hold Bradley responsible if the team doesn't win. Khan himself has indicated he expects "substantial improvement" from the team this year.
Most outside observers agree that the Jaguars have had a good offseason this year and the past few years. There were no shortage of kudos given to the Jaguars for their efforts during this past draft. I haven't seen a draft grade lower than a B+ for our Jaguars in a draft that netted the Jaguars 2 of the consensus top 4 defensive players in this draft. This year's NFL Network's top 100 players features 4 Jaguars home grown players.
But how has that translated into how the preseason mags have viewed the Jaguars and their chances to win this division? In the four mags out to date (Athlon's, Lindy's, Sporting news, and Pro Football Weekly), the consensus is despite the talent infusion, the Jaguars are a middle of the pack team. The Jaguars are rated 19th by the Sporting News, and 18th by Pro Football Weekly. PFW also predicts the Jaguars to finish 3rd in a still mediocre but tight AFC South division with a 7-9 record, behind Indy (9-7) and Houston (8-8). Also of interest from PFW, no Jaguars rate in their top 50 overall players. Furthermore, with their positional player ratings system:
-Only one Jaguar (WR Allen Robinson-12th best WR) ranks among the best in the league at their position.
-Of the top 15 QBs they rank, Matt Ryan pulls in the lowest rating with a 3.70. According to the PFW scale, 4.0-5.0=Blue chip (Pro Bowl quality player), 3.0-3.99=red chip (impact player who falls short in at least one area), 2.4-2.99 =purple chip (starter who gets job done/still developing player). Presumably this means Bortles is somewhere between 2.4-3.69.
So taking these things at face value, what do you guys think about the combined evaluations? How could a team like the Jaguars have what most consider to be three good to great drafts in a row and still be considered a middle of the pack team?
Is that a reflection of how poor the roster was before that it took 3 good to great drafts in succession to just reach middle of the pack status?
Is it a sign of intransigence on the part of the publishers of these mags to acknowledge any improvement until the team shows it on the field, or do these mid pack rankings acknowledge that improvement?
Do you think the nucleus and talent level is there but needs maturity?
Is it more a sign of the outsiders' apprehension of Bradley as a coach?
What are your thoughts on these somewhat conflicting analysis?
I think it's just a matter of actually showing improvement. The improvement is apparent on paper but until these guys play and play well together most outside observers will take the safe route and predict a mediocre finish.
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So taking these things at face value, what do you guys think about the combined evaluations? How could a team like the Jaguars have what most consider to be three good to great drafts in a row and still be considered a middle of the pack team?
Unproven or inconsistent young talent in starting roles combined with a turnover problem and two question marks at LT/LG are enough to keep them mid-pack for most evaluators IMO. Though - I personally think they'll finish no lower than second in the division.
Is that a reflection of how poor the roster was before that it took 3 good to great drafts in succession to just reach middle of the pack status? Yes
Is it a sign of intransigence on the part of the publishers of these mags to acknowledge any improvement until the team shows it on the field, Yes
Do you think the nucleus and talent level is there but needs maturity? Yes
Is it more a sign of the outsiders' apprehension of Bradley as a coach? To a lesser extent, Yes.
What are your thoughts on these somewhat conflicting analysis? Hard to gamble on this defense cutting the points allowed significantly when you are depending on contribution from no less than three rookies to do it. (Ramsey, Fowler/Ngakoue, and Jack)
Without winning, it's hard to get individuals recognized.
I think we'll win more, the arrow will certainly show up, and only after then we'll get more favorable "press."
As that happens, I think the conflicting opinions will wash out. They are always a trailing indicator. We'll only get better press as the team gets better.
It's only natural. With our struggles with rebuilding, I think it's especially wise to be cautious, and in a "show me, don't tell me" mode.
Guys like Bortles and Robinson are getting noticed, and others like Ivory and Poz are respected. So we're pretty much the definition of "under the radar" until we command more attention with wins.
I suspect that these magazines like Lindy's they don't have much incentive to rate us higher, due to the fact that we are a small market. They're in the business of selling magazines.
Too cynical?
Quote:I suspect that these magazines like Lindy's they don't have much incentive to rate us higher, due to the fact that we are a small market. They're in the business of selling magazines.
Too cynical?
I dunno, TBH.
I am a cynic, and yeah I could see that, but if they are in the business of selling magazines, to the extent people rely on them for information, if they were ignoring open and obvious facts to make their prognistication just to make sales, their sales would diminish...at least I would think so.
As for Pirkster's take, it makes sense the mags should take a wait and see approach and that the perception lags at least a year behind schedule.
I remember when Dallas won the Super Bowl for the 1992 season, they had the #1 defense in the league, but no Pro Bowlers on that defense. The next year, there were Pro Bowlers on the defensive side of the ball.
To be fair, it looks like they are ranking us about 10 places higher than we have finished over the last 5 years.
Recognition has to be earned.
They can call us, write about us or pretty much anything as long as we have success this year, won't bother me. I have a hard time paying attention during this part of the season.
I think we have to prove it. Typically all the offseason stuff is based on the last year. What else could they base it on? I think them acting like they use the offseason to shore up their opinions formed from the previous year is the laugher.
Quote:To be fair, it looks like they are ranking us about 10 places higher than we have finished over the last 5 years.
Recognition has to be earned.
Exactly right. This is one reason why I wondered whether the ranking is an acknowledgement of the drafts we've had...or in spite of them, if that makes any sense.
I firmly believe that while we have holes, we'll earn more kudos this year.
Quote:I suspect that these magazines like Lindy's they don't have much incentive to rate us higher, due to the fact that we are a small market. They're in the business of selling magazines.
Too cynical?
I do think that prevents many from having much, if any, insight over the direction of the team and makes their analysis more lagging than leading in information.
Quote:I suspect that these magazines like Lindy's they don't have much incentive to rate us higher, due to the fact that we are a small market. They're in the business of selling magazines.
Too cynical?
I don't have a problem with Lindy's ranking us poorly but what I found comical was in there draft rankings we got a B+. I can't fathom in any way how a draft class of Ramsey and Jack isn't an A. Tampa Bay drafted a kicker and got an A-. Pretty funny stuff.
Closer scrutiny of the Sporting News preview showed according to them, Buffalo and Tennessee are better at QB than Jacksonville.
That's interesting. Good job, Frenette.
Quote:We Jaguars fans have been quite enthusiastic about the talent infusion the last 2-3 offseasons have provided, to the point where most, if not all Jaguars fans are prepared to hold Bradley responsible if the team doesn't win. Khan himself has indicated he expects "substantial improvement" from the team this year.
Most outside observers agree that the Jaguars have had a good offseason this year and the past few years. There were no shortage of kudos given to the Jaguars for their efforts during this past draft. I haven't seen a draft grade lower than a B+ for our Jaguars in a draft that netted the Jaguars 2 of the consensus top 4 defensive players in this draft. This year's NFL Network's top 100 players features 4 Jaguars home grown players.
But how has that translated into how the preseason mags have viewed the Jaguars and their chances to win this division? In the four mags out to date (Athlon's, Lindy's, Sporting news, and Pro Football Weekly), the consensus is despite the talent infusion, the Jaguars are a middle of the pack team. The Jaguars are rated 19th by the Sporting News, and 18th by Pro Football Weekly. PFW also predicts the Jaguars to finish 3rd in a still mediocre but tight AFC South division with a 7-9 record, behind Indy (9-7) and Houston (8-8). Also of interest from PFW, no Jaguars rate in their top 50 overall players. Furthermore, with their positional player ratings system:
-Only one Jaguar (WR Allen Robinson-12th best WR) ranks among the best in the league at their position.
-Of the top 15 QBs they rank, Matt Ryan pulls in the lowest rating with a 3.70. According to the PFW scale, 4.0-5.0=Blue chip (Pro Bowl quality player), 3.0-3.99=red chip (impact player who falls short in at least one area), 2.4-2.99 =purple chip (starter who gets job done/still developing player). Presumably this means Bortles is somewhere between 2.4-3.69.
So taking these things at face value, what do you guys think about the combined evaluations? How could a team like the Jaguars have what most consider to be three good to great drafts in a row and still be considered a middle of the pack team?
Is that a reflection of how poor the roster was before that it took 3 good to great drafts in succession to just reach middle of the pack status?
Is it a sign of intransigence on the part of the publishers of these mags to acknowledge any improvement until the team shows it on the field, or do these mid pack rankings acknowledge that improvement?
Do you think the nucleus and talent level is there but needs maturity?
Is it more a sign of the outsiders' apprehension of Bradley as a coach?
What are your thoughts on these somewhat conflicting analysis?
I hope you posted to be a writer on BCC.
Quote:Why, BJ57?
You've always had a way of putting out good and we'll thought out posts. If you were to write out an article and just answer your questions you bring up for discussion, I feel that peeps would read.
I don't think we're a middle of the pack team. However, I do see where pundits may be unwilling to stick there necks out. The Jags just aren't an NFL favorite and media has jumped on the bandwagon before, only to be disappointed. The foundation was set last year for the offense and just required growth. We saw that growth as the year went on. With another year in the system, consistency will be what is expected at this point and of course fewer bonehead mistakes. I would expect the offense to be more balanced and efficient. I don't think there should be much of a concern about taking multiple steps back. Media types are big on being able to back up performance season after season. The Jags offense is being viewed with caution and with some "one hit wonder" creeping in. Maturity has never been an issue and a nucleus is in place. Rather than building a foundation, Caldwell can now search for talent to raise the bar. Roster cuts are going to be more and more painful as seasons go and teams will be eyeing the scraps.
The defense has had some pieces in place, but really lacked over the top ability and depth. On paper, the Jags defense should be much improved. Like the offense, I think some difficult cuts may take place.
As far as the head coach creating any type of apprehension or distance, that seems ridiculous to me. Gus has an outstanding ability to motivate. As outsiders, we can't really be too sure of his other strengths and weaknesses. I see the head coach as the CEO and he is only as good as the managers and staff that work for him. Let's be honest, there was some head scratching hires of certain position coaches. With that said, you are what your record shows. Right now, that is on the level of dumpster juice, but make no mistake, if he gets this team to the division championship and possibly beyond, there will some flipping of opinions.
Overall, the media analysis is fair until the Jags can prove to be consistent winners and not constantly selecting top 10 of the draft every year.
Quote:I don't think we're a middle of the pack team. However, I do see where pundits may be unwilling to stick there necks out. The Jags just aren't an NFL favorite and media has jumped on the bandwagon before, only to be disappointed. The foundation was set last year for the offense and just required growth. We saw that growth as the year went on. With another year in the system, consistency will be what is expected at this point and of course fewer bonehead mistakes. I would expect the offense to be more balanced and efficient. I don't think there should be much of a concern about taking multiple steps back. Media types are big on being able to back up performance season after season. The Jags offense is being viewed with caution and with some "one hit wonder" creeping in. Maturity has never been an issue and a nucleus is in place. Rather than building a foundation, Caldwell can now search for talent to raise the bar. Roster cuts are going to be more and more painful as seasons go and teams will be eyeing the scraps.
The defense has had some pieces in place, but really lacked over the top ability and depth. On paper, the Jags defense should be much improved. Like the offense, I think some difficult cuts may take place.
As far as the head coach creating any type of apprehension or distance, that seems ridiculous to me. Gus has an outstanding ability to to motivate. As outsiders, we can't really be too sure of his other strengths and weaknesses. I see the head coach as the CEO and he is only as good as the mangers and staff that work for him. Let's be honest, there was some head scratching hires of certain position coaches. With that said, you are what your record shows. Right now, that is on the level of dumpster juice, but make no mistake, if he gets this team to the division championship and possibly beyond, there will some flipping of opinions.
Overall, the media analysis is fair until the Jags can prove to be consistent winners and not constantly selecting top 10 of the draft every year.
Couldnt have said it better.
Thanks BJ57.
I guess I'm content posting here, since I've been here for years and generally get good discussion. Besides, not sure if I'd be wanted as a contributor there or not.
Oh yeah...Miami is rated higher at QB too.
Quote:You've always had a way of putting out good and we'll thought out posts.
I second that.