One of the most valuable things a defense can have is a CB that can shut down a team's top WR, enabling the rest of the defense to focus on the other WRs. Instead of having to roll coverage towards the top WR, the defense can play as designed, allowing most of the areas of the field to be covered.
But most analysis focuses in on the one cover corner, with the tacit understanding the rest of the defenders are largely less capable of single handedly taking a receiver out of the progression. Every once in a while, a team will have two cover CBs, which will exacerbate the desired effect on opposing offenses to the benefit of the defense. But even in those instances, the idea of the shut down cover guy deals with the back end of the defense. Opposing offenses are typically left to attack underneath.
However, you never hear about LBs being described in those terms. You hear about the 3-4 OLB who blitz and chase down QBs. You hear about the two down run plugger inside. There are those known for excelling in zone. But rarely, if ever, do you hear about the LB excelling in man coverage to the point where the guy they are covering in man is not an option like it is when a shut down CB is on a WR. Typically, LBs don't have the speed and change of direction ability to be considered top cover guys. They may excel in zone, but rarely are you witness to a LB following a TE all game long.
With Jack, however, you have a guy who has been known to cover receivers despite being in 230-245 lb range. Not just slot receivers. Not just lesser talent. But he has shown he could cover the likes of a Nelson Agholor. If he is what we think he is, he's more than fast and quick enough to stay with the fastest TEs, while big enough to not consistently get muscled by these same TEs.
If Ramsey is the shut down CB most people think, and Jack can reliably be tasked with taking a TE out of the passing game on a given play, attacking underneath, and overall, would suddenly become less viable a proposition. Teams would have to focus on 2nd and 3rd WRs predominantly. I like House and Amukumara against most 2nd and 3rd WRs. Our coverage and our blitzing would be improved. Wash could feel more comfortable blitzing a nickel or dime back knowing Jack could get out to cover the slot. Gipson could roam the middle with virtual impunity. Coverages and blitzes would be better disguised.
Make no mistake, this defense still has some vulnerabilities. Pass rush is still a major concern, and I wonder how the run defense will hold up against teams that pull their linemen and run outside or utilize two TEs in the run. But I think now we have a fighting chance to stop teams from passing the ball at will. I think if Jack stays healthy, he could be one of the best cover LBs in the tradition of Derrick Brooks and Luke Kuechly, only better in man.
Quote:One of the most valuable things a defense can have is a CB that can shut down a team's top WR, enabling the rest of the defense to focus on the other WRs. Instead of having to roll coverage towards the top WR, the defense can play as designed, allowing most of the areas of the field to be covered.
But most analysis focuses in on the one cover corner, with the tacit understanding the rest of the defenders are largely less capable of single handedly taking a receiver out of the progression. Every once in a while, a team will have two cover CBs, which will exacerbate the desired effect on opposing offenses to the benefit of the defense. But even in those instances, the idea of the shut down cover guy deals with the back end of the defense. Opposing offenses are typically left to attack underneath.
However, you never hear about LBs being described in those terms. Typically, LBs don't have the speed and change of direction ability to be considered top cover guys. They may excel in zone, but rarely are you witness to a LB following a TE all game long.
With Jack, however, you have a guy who has been known to cover receivers despite being in 230-245 lb range. Not just slot receivers. Not just lesser talent. But he has shown he could cover the likes of a Nelson Agholor. If he is what we think he is, he's more than fast and quick enough to stay with the fastest TEs, while big enough to not consistently get muscled by these same TEs.
If Ramsey is the shut down CB most people think, and Jack can reliably be tasked with taking a TE out of the passing game on a given play, attacking underneath, and overall, would suddenly become less viable a proposition. Teams would have to focus on 2nd and 3rd WRs predominantly. I like House and Amukumara against most 2nd and 3rd WRs. Our coverage and our blitzing would be improved. Wash could feel more comfortable blitzing a nickel or dime back knowing Jack could get out to cover the slot. Gipson could roam the middle with virtual impunity. Coverages and blitzes would be better disguised.
Make no mistake, this defense still has some vulnerabilities. Pass rush is still a major concern, and I wonder how the run defense will hold up against teams that pull their linemen and run outside or utilize two TEs in the run. But I think now we have a fighting chance to stop teams from passing the ball at will. I think if Jack stays healthy, he could be one of the best cover LBs in the tradition of Derrick Brooks and Luke Kuechly, only better in man.
Derrick Brooks is who I've thought of when I see Jack. Definitely key to not just let QBs always have a guy wide open for 7-8 yards whenever they feel like taking it. Especially considering the QBs of the titans and texans, a couple of guys that can't throw it across a street with any accuracy, it'll be important to actually be able to cover underneath.
I agree with most of your input, however you fail to include the rookie factor. To believe that Ramsey and Jack can come in year 1 and shutdown teams #1 and possibly #2 options in the passing game, would be foolish.
You have to account for the trial and error. They both are gonna make mistakes.. Thats just what happens as rookies learn the game on a nfl level. I do potentially, down the line seeing them becoming the players that you see them as.. But right now its too soon to believe this, not without letting them grow as a player first and then speculate...
Quote:I agree with most of your input, however you fail to include the rookie factor. To believe that Ramsey and Jack can come in year 1 and shutdown teams #1 and possibly #2 options in the passing game, would be foolish.
You have to account for the trial and error. They both are gonna make mistakes.. Thats just what happens as rookies learn the game on a nfl level. I do potentially, down the line seeing them becoming the players that you see them as.. But right now its too soon to believe this, not without letting them grow as a player first and then speculate...
Well Jack wouldn't be shutting down the #1 or #2. He'd be known the TE, maybe the slot guy.
Ramsey OTOH is going to be asked to do A LOT this season. Though I do think he can have a Darby/Peters type rookie year
Shutdown LBs are hard to come by because they need to be big enough to hold up against the run while being fast/fluid enough to cover TEs/RBs. Julian Peterson and Patrick Willis, in their primes, are two of the recent examples in my mind of LBs who have the ability to cover man (guys like Brooks and Lewis IMO, were good man covers, but exceptional zone cover linebackers)
As a young defense (and with so many changes roster wise), I don't expect this team to be shutting offenses yet. I think the crazy possibility here is versatility. Teams struggle defending offenses with a tremendous pass receiving RB or TE. CBs often are too small to take on TEs, and LBs are often too slow to cover TEs, much less receiving RBs.
The selection of Ramsey and Jack makes us uniquely capable of covering these specialized weapons with our base defense (once Jack makes it there). Ramsey is a guy who can cover receivers, backs, and TEs. Jack can cover backs, TEs, and receivers (to a lesser extent). NFL is very much about match-ups and finding your passing weak link.
With two players capable of defending any offensive position, it will be more difficult for offenses to target a weakness of our defense due to the versatility of these two players.
Quote:I agree with most of your input, however you fail to include the rookie factor. To believe that Ramsey and Jack can come in year 1 and shutdown teams #1 and possibly #2 options in the passing game, would be foolish.
You have to account for the trial and error. They both are gonna make mistakes.. Thats just what happens as rookies learn the game on a nfl level. I do potentially, down the line seeing them becoming the players that you see them as.. But right now its too soon to believe this, not without letting them grow as a player first and then speculate...
This is actually not foolish. Yes, they'll make mistakes. But their ability (especially their physical traits which is freak-like) will allow them to. Corners and linebackers are positions in the NFL that you can ask a rookie to come in and make an immediate impact. You will likely need to simplify things for them, but if they have the physical capability (as these two should and do) it makes it easier. This isn't QB or even DE.
Rookie corners, especially good/great ones have come in historically and performed immediately.
Like Speedy said, our defense has a unique versatility to it, with not only Ramsey and Jack, but also Fowler, who can play all over the front 7 and be disruptive.
Can Jack handle a TE like Gronk? Maybe... he might be the only player in the NFL that has the potential to capably do it. That's a nice weapon to have.
Caldwell has creatively built up the defensive side of the ball, giving us numerous players that have versatility, speed, and talent. Wash and Gus should be able to come up with some nice game plans, now that we have the players to do it.
Quote:Like Speedy said, our defense has a unique versatility to it, with not only Ramsey and Jack, but also Fowler, who can play all over the front 7 and be disruptive.
Can Jack handle a TE like Gronk? Maybe... he might be the only player in the NFL that has the potential to capably do it. That's a nice weapon to have.
Caldwell has creatively built up the defensive side of the ball, giving us numerous players that have versatility, speed, and talent. Wash and Gus should be able to come up with some nice game plans, now that we have the players to do it.
Guys like Gronk might be tough for Ramsey. Despite Jalen's size, Gronk would prove to be too big for him. Jack would get that assignment, IMO.
Quote:Guys like Gronk might be tough for Ramsey. Despite Jalen's size, Gronk would prove to be too big for him. Jack would get that assignment, IMO.
Ramsey would be a good match up against a finesse TE , but I agree that Jack would be the better match up against a physical TE like Gronk. Jags could use Ramsey and Jack like the Cardinals use Buchanon and Mathieu. Ramsey will eventually develop into our #1 cb, but he has technical issues to work out first. His strength to the team right now is playing nickel and closer to the LOS. Rashean Mathis started at FS and then evolved into our #1 CB.
Quote:Ramsey would be a good match up against a finesse TE , but I agree that Jack would be the better match up against a physical TE like Gronk. Jags could use Ramsey and Jack like the Cardinals use Buchanon and Mathieu. Ramsey will eventually develop into our #1 cb, but he has technical issues to work out first. His strength to the team right now is playing nickel and closer to the LOS. Rashean Mathis started at FS and then evolved into our #1 CB.
Mathis started at FS because that's what he played in college. He played FS in college-not because he couldn't cut it at CB. His college coach moved him to FS so opposing teams couldn't avoid him, putting him in position to make plays more often.
Brevity, soul of wit
If rookie LB can take TE, rookie CB take #1 WR, others can handle the rest
Outcome, D gets better v. pass
Hopefully maintain run D ability, especially against heavy 2 TE run Os
Got it, and naturally
Wait..... were still talking about a rookie who has yet to play a down in the NFL..... right, Breath!
Quote:Wait..... were still talking about a rookie who has yet to play a down in the NFL..... right, Breath!
Perhaps you missed this phrasing in the OP...
Quote:
If he is what we think he is...
Well ...... we draft guys every single year, not all or even very many end up being what we think they are. If that was the case Blaine Gabbert would have won 3 Super Bowls sooooo
Quote:Well ...... we draft guys every single year, not all or even very many end up being what we think they are. If that was the case Blaine Gabbert would have won 3 Super Bowls sooooo
Then perhaps a post saying Jack offers no strengths or weaknesses whatsoever would have been preferable?
Quote:Guys like Gronk might be tough for Ramsey. Despite Jalen's size, Gronk would prove to be too big for him. Jack would get that assignment, IMO.
There hasn't been a db or lb in the leage who has shut Gronk down. He is just too big and powerful. He will make his plays but they have to be limited.He has 4 big catches on us last year for a 100yds.
Most double teams cant cover Gronk. I think Ramsey and Jack together can do it
I hope we see a change in our "stand still in your zone even if the receiver is only a few yards away" philosophy from last year.
Telvin Smith is more like Derrick Brooks. He'll be able to make more plays now provided the front four can get after the QB on it's own. People forget in Tampa Bay that for the longest Brooks had guys like Sapp, McFarland and Rice in front of him to free him up to cause damage in the secondary or blitz off the edge once in awhile. Didn't hurt having Lynch to reinforce their toughness and physicality either. And also a highly underrated CB in Ronde Barber giving them even more time to do what they needed to do. Jack takes after Kuechly. Once he gets his feet wet as an OLB during his rookie year it's very likely he learns and takes over the inside backer position and bumps Paul off the roster. He's too athletic and quick for his size and frame to be limited to one side of the field. You want him right in the middle of your defense to make plays instinctively from sideline to sideline.
Quote:I hope we see a change in our "stand still in your zone even if the receiver is only a few yards away" philosophy from last year.
That's just the way its played. It looks stupid live but all teams do it. That's how Tom Brady is considered the best even though he couldn't hold Joe Montanas jock.