Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

So wait... Should we pump the brakes?

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-pa...-AFC-South

You have to kind of hear what they are truly saying which is the team has talent but can the Head Coach actually win with it...

Then they said the GM is okay with average but the owner isnt.

I am not a Gus believer at this point, but I am hoping with the amount of talent on this team now we will see his scheme finally work here and we will pick up more Ws and I can see us getting 9-10 wins if all goes well. 10 wins should win this division, so I am hoping Gus and co. show up and show out this season and get a home playoff game in Jacksonville. 

Gus does bug me. I can't understand for the life of me why a guy like Cyprien is so garbage when he should be a very good player and it comes back to coaching for me. I think it affects the entire team. The sloppiness they play with a lot of the time. That has nothing to do with talent, it's coaching. We had 28 turnovers last season. Sloppy football. I can't see a Bruce Arians or Bill Belichick team having 28 turnovers no matter who the players are.

I disagree, I still don't see the colts above us with "average luck" at the helm. The Texans will rely solely on if Brock pans out, which I think he's also average. tacks are the Stinking tacks.

Quote:I am not a Gus believer at this point, but I am hoping with the amount of talent on this team now we will see his scheme finally work here and we will pick up more Ws and I can see us getting 9-10 wins if all goes well. 10 wins should win this division, so I am hoping Gus and co. show up and show out this season and get a home playoff game in Jacksonville. 

Gus hasn't had the talent on the defensive side of the field prior to now for any of us to know if he has been one of the main problems or not. Certainly he has made his share of errors, but there is a 'learning curve' for coaches as well as players. However, the time has past for those type of errors that were being committed by the HC. Now, it's far more a question of if his core strategy as a 'defensive minded' HC is at the root of our defensive woes. We have (at least on paper) the talent to implement his so called 'Seattle style' defense now. So this will be a very telling season for the HC. The excuses are (at least on paper) gone.

 

If in fact, with the new talent on defense that has been injected this off season (assuming they play up to their potential), and if the offense can play at least as well as it did last season (with hopefully fewer 'ints' and a better running game), then I could see the Jags being viable contenders for a play off berth. At the very least, we should at least reach the watermark of 8-8 this season. In my opinion, anything less than an 8-8 season this year is grounds for termination for Gus.

 

On the other hand, if we do reach 8-8 then I wouldn't be too quick to pull the trigger on firing Gus. An 8-8 season would be a pretty substantial leap for a team that's only had 12 wins in the past 3 years! I'd be okay (I think) with it if we reach 8-8 then give Gus one more year. Then next year it's play offs or bust.

Quote:I disagree, I still don't see the colts above us with "average luck" at the helm. The Texans will rely solely on if Brock pans out, which I think he's also average. tacks are the Stinking tacks.

I gotta think that The Tin men are gonna be our toughest divisional opponant. I see them with their young qb and an attempt to establish a strong running game as a team that is close to ours in ascention.


I agree that it will be a tight division but the media guys selling us short a bit here.

Quote:I gotta think that The Tin men are gonna be our toughest divisional opponant. I see them with their young qb and an attempt to establish a strong running game as a team that is close to ours in ascention.


I agree that it will be a tight division but the media guys selling us short a bit here.

You talking titans(new name im trying to establish for them is titheads, not sure if its legal on this board lol) or tinhorns?

 

cause Titans did little to boost a D that we hung 40 points on  last year. while they do have a running game now, they will not be faceing the same D when they play us and with the addition of Ivroy, our O maybe even powerful than the one that hung 40 on them. the Tin horns however are still a wait and see for me. with brock at QB it's going to be interesting to see what they can do considering their D is already one of the top in the NFL. i thought houston was going to do well last year in the playoffs and was very suprised at how bad KC beat them when they shut them out. it honestly showed me how bad our Defense was considering we let their O walk all over us one week prior.

 

Honestly, i like our odds.

 

i think the media has been fair all things considering. i dont think enough emphasis has been put on our FA but i think we got quite a bit of praise for the draft.

I actually like Gus and give him a lot of credit. People are a little harsh on him due to our terrible record over the past 3 years but I honestly think he should be judged on the results of this season(and next season) alone. He's a very inspirational person and I don't see him ever losing the locker room. He has the potential to bring out the best in a person's character which is gonna mean a lot more now that we have some very good talent on this roster. He's made mistakes but hell, I saw Coughlin literally throw games last season due to sloppy play calling and idiotic decisions and he's considered a HOF coach. Give it time guys, the wait is pretty much already over. Let's see how we do this season before we all set the Gus Bus up in flames.


This is probably not gonna be a make or break season for Gus regardless, probably next season will. But if the team somehow regresses then the topic will for sure be brought up by the Front Office.

Quote:I actually like Gus and give him a lot of credit. People are a little harsh on him due to our terrible record over the past 3 years but I honestly think he should be judged on the results of this season(and next season) alone. He's a very inspirational person and I don't see him ever losing the locker room. He has the potential to bring out the best in a person's character which is gonna mean a lot more now that we have some very good talent on this roster. He's made mistakes but hell, I saw Coughlin literally throw games last season due to sloppy play calling and idiotic decisions and he's considered a HOF coach. Give it time guys, the wait is pretty much already over. Let's see how we do this season before we all set the Gus Bus up in flames.


This is probably not gonna be a make or break season for Gus regardless, probably next season will. But if the team somehow regresses then the topic will for sure be brought up by the Front Office.

alot of people like to throw in the record card while not mentioning that he literally began a NFL team from complete scratch and has accumulated young talent in the process that this city has not seen in a decade. very few franchises, if any, come in and purge almost every existing player off a roster and do barley anything in FA to rebuild for 3 years. this is because of fanbases wanting instant gratification while not considering all the variable that go into building a long term dynasty like cap space, contracts, age, and revenue not just buying the current best but building through youth. the results we had are not surprising but the young talent we have acquired is undeniable. people can put the credit for the talent on Dave but it is gus who drives these guys every day. It may not be the cool thing to do in this board, but i am with you in supporting Gus. It's not like he was given a royal flush hand to play from the beginning and if people hate the fact that he finds a way to stay positive, i think they are missing the point. If i thought he wasn't doing everything he could or that someone else could do better with what he was given, i would have a problem. but i can honestly say i do not believe anyone could have done better during the first 3 years all things considering.

Quote:You have to kind of hear what they are truly saying which is the team has talent but can the Head Coach actually win with it...

Then they said the GM is okay with average but the owner isnt.

 

You hear what you want to hear. 

Quote:You talking titans(new name im trying to establish for them is titheads, not sure if its legal on this board lol) or tinhorns?


cause Titans did little to boost a D that we hung 40 points on last year. while they do have a running game now, they will not be faceing the same D when they play us and with the addition of Ivroy, our O maybe even powerful than the one that hung 40 on them. the Tin horns however are still a wait and see for me. with brock at QB it's going to be interesting to see what they can do considering their D is already one of the top in the NFL. i thought houston was going to do well last year in the playoffs and was very suprised at how bad KC beat them when they shut them out. it honestly showed me how bad our Defense was considering we let their O walk all over us one week prior.


Honestly, i like our odds.


i think the media has been fair all things considering. i dont think enough emphasis has been put on our FA but i think we got quite a bit of praise for the draft.

I like it, I like it.. Like the new nickname u gave'm and I like the perspective and outlook.

Screw pumping the brakes.


Nobody is going to take this excitement away from me.


This team is talented and young. This team should win more games. This roster is better than it has been in a long time. This team is going to be fun to watch and I'm not going to waste that fun by trying to temper my excitement.


Not this time.

It's really impressive how many facts one must ignore on order to rationalize one's support for our head coach.


Let's see how we do this season against pagano, obrian, and malarkey...


We have have superior overall talent when one compares the jags to the rest of the afcs.


The question mark is coaching at this point.

Quote:alot of people like to throw in the record card while not mentioning that he literally began a NFL team from complete scratch and has accumulated young talent in the process that this city has not seen in a decade. very few franchises, if any, come in and purge almost every existing player off a roster and do barley anything in FA to rebuild for 3 years. this is because of fanbases wanting instant gratification while not considering all the variable that go into building a long term dynasty like cap space, contracts, age, and revenue not just buying the current best but building through youth. the results we had are not surprising but the young talent we have acquired is undeniable. people can put the credit for the talent on Dave but it is gus who drives these guys every day. It may not be the cool thing to do in this board, but i am with you in supporting Gus. It's not like he was given a royal flush hand to play from the beginning and if people hate the fact that he finds a way to stay positive, i think they are missing the point. If i thought he wasn't doing everything he could or that someone else could do better with what he was given, i would have a problem. but i can honestly say i do not believe anyone could have done better during the first 3 years all things considering.

 

The only record that matters is a defensive guru coach giving up an average of over 28 points per game (ranking 31st in the NFL) against the most pathetic collection of backup QBs and journeymen in NFL history.


 

It's easy to blame the personnel, but there were plenty of cases where the scheme itself was the problem. Several of those 30 teams with better results on defense had worse personnel, and didn't face such weak offenses.


 

And here's a list of the starters on defense who have improved (developed) under Gus and company (i.e. were better in December 2015 than they were when they arrived on the team):

 

 

...

Quote:The only record that matters is a defensive guru coach giving up an average of over 28 points per game (ranking 31st in the NFL) against the most pathetic collection of backup QBs and journeymen in NFL history.


 

It's easy to blame the personnel, but there were plenty of cases where the scheme itself was the problem. Several of those 30 teams with better results on defense had worse personnel, and didn't face such weak offenses.


 

And here's a list of the starters on defense who have improved (developed) under Gus and company (i.e. were better in December 2015 than they were when they arrived on the team):

 

 

...

 

Is it the only record that matters?

 

Bill O'Brien is an offensive head coach, yet the Texans were 21st in PPG. The Chargers have an offensive HC AND a veteran pro-bowl caliber QB, and they finished 26th in PPG.

 

We're heading into the season with potentially 6 new starters on defense (Fowler, Malik, Jack, Jalen, Gipson, Prince).

 

That should tell you what the GM thought of this personnel.

Quote:It's really impressive how many facts one must ignore on order to rationalize one's support for our head coach.


Let's see how we do this season against pagano, obrian, and malarkey...

We have have superior overall talent when one compares the jags to the rest of the afcs.


The question mark is coaching at this point.

I would say we have superior skill position talent to every team in the AFC South.

 

I would not say that applies to the lines.

 

But whatever talent deficiencies that exist on this roster are not the issue.  The gap has been closed overall. 

 

At this point, Bradley is the question.

Quote:It's really impressive how many facts one must ignore on order to rationalize one's support for our head coach.


Let's see how we do this season against pagano, obrian, and malarkey...


We have have superior overall talent when one compares the jags to the rest of the afcs.


The question mark is coaching at this point.

What are you talking about people rationalizing?


Let's start from the beginning:


Here are the facts (premises):


1. David Caldwell is a superior judge of talent.

2. The Defense was the problem last year.

3. Gus Bradley is a defensive-minded coach.

4. David Caldwell signed Gus Bradley to an extension.

5. David Caldwell - in one offseason - has completely over hauled the defensive roster.


Ok, let's back it up again. Why was the defense so bad last year?


You have three choices: 1) talent is inadequate 2) coaching is adequate or 3) both are inadequate


Given what David Caldwell has chosen to do this offseason, which of those three options do you feel it is most likely he agrees with?


The facts point to option 1. Plain and simple.


Now, if you think you know better, well, that's on you.

Quote:What are you talking about people rationalizing?


Let's start from the beginning:


Here are the facts (premises):


1. David Caldwell is a superior judge of talent.

2. The Defense was the problem last year.

3. Gus Bradley is a defensive-minded coach.

4. David Caldwell signed Gus Bradley to an extension.

5. David Caldwell - in one offseason - has completely over hauled the defensive roster.


Ok, let's back it up again. Why was the defense so bad last year?


You have three choices: 1) talent is inadequate 2) coaching is adequate or 3) both are inadequate


Given what David Caldwell has chosen to do this offseason, which of those three options do you feel it is most likely he agrees with?


The facts point to option 1. Plain and simple.


Now, if you think you know better, well, that's on you.

 

You've chosen your own set of facts and ignored all others as you always do.

 

In your premise #3, you are implying that Bradley is a "successful" defensive minded coach.  Most have assumed that he is responsible for the success of the Seattle Defense.  However, the facts are they they further improved after he left.  It's also just as plausible (and more likely) that Pete Carroll and John Schneider are responsible for their success.

 

There are no facts yet (going into his 4th year as our HC) to support that success has followed Bradley. 

 

All of your speculations are ignorant and devoid of any objectivity whatsoever. 

 

Most here are rather objective and at a minimum understand that it's time for Bradley to put up or shut up.  Many believe that he has shown enough that he will not be successful as an NFL HC and is past his tenure.  And then a very few (you) believe that he should rival Belichik for coach of the year.

 

If you're going to debate/discuss here, at least bring some legitimate rationale, logic, facts and objectivity.

Quote:You've chosen your own set of facts and ignored all others as you always do.


In your premise #3, you are implying that Bradley is a "successful" defensive minded coach. Most have assumed that he is responsible for the success of the Seattle Defense. However, the facts are they they further improved after he left. It's also just as plausible (and more likely) that Pete Carroll and John Schneider are responsible for their success.


There are no facts yet (going into his 4th year as our HC) to support that success has followed Bradley.


All of your speculations are ignorant and devoid of any objectivity whatsoever.


Most here are rather objective and at a minimum understand that it's time for Bradley to put up or shut up. Many believe that he has shown enough that he will not be successful as an NFL HC and is past his tenure. And then a very few (you) believe that he should rival Belichik for coach of the year.


If you're going to debate/discuss here, at least bring some legitimate rationale, logic, facts and objectivity.

I never said or implied anything about him being successful. Facts are the facts. You can choose to ignore them if you like. Lots do.