Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

 

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First and foremost lets acknowledge how disgusting the Ivory contract is. Seriously thats gotta be one of the worst contracts in the entire league.


And if we drafted Fournette at 4 we would have two top 10 paid running backs.


Hopefully we dont do that.

 

<div>OK. I'll bite. 

 
The jaguars led the NFL in cap space in 2016 when the Ivory contract was put together. The same argument you are making for the browns you make against the jaguars. You're either a clown with zero credibility, an idiot, or both. 

 
 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">the jaguars paid a lot of money for a 26/27 year old running back that just had a very good season with the jets when they had more money to spend than they would have been able to. 


<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">the browns paid a lot of money for an unknown second rounder when they had more money to spend than they would have been able to. 


<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">bad for the jags


<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">good for the browns


<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">makes total sense. 


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Quote:Ok. I see what you're saying and that would be one logical argument. Even though I don't agree, I understand the logic.


The problem is that the same people that praise them for wasting money, admonish the jaguars for doing the same thing.


These people have an agenda and they're skewing information to promote said agenda. That's the issue.

 

Even with Osweiler on the books Cleveland has 52 Million in cap space....they ended last year with 47 Million in cap space...

 

Now would you really argue against trading 16 Million of that 47 Million for a 2nd round pick?

 

As was pointed out as well they can drop Osweiler at the end of the year and get that 16 Million back with no penalty. 

 

For your argument to really hold water...Cleveland would need to somehow blow through all that 52 Million THIS year...then still have someone else to sign...which isn't going to happen.

Quote:Even with Osweiler on the books Cleveland has 52 Million in cap space....they ended last year with 47 Million in cap space...

 

Now would you really argue against trading 16 Million of that 47 Million for a 2nd round pick?

 

As was pointed out as well they can drop Osweiler at the end of the year and get that 16 Million back with no penalty. 

 

For your argument to really hold water...Cleveland would need to somehow blow through all that 52 Million THIS year...then still have someone else to sign...which isn't going to happen.

 

You are completely missing the point. 

The Browns deal with the Texans was great. Was a win/win for both teams , although will be less of a win for the Texans if they don't get Romo.


The Ivory deal is pretty irrelevant to our cap health. Sure its bad value if he doesn't perform but it really isn't a big deal at all.

Quote:The Browns deal with the Texans was great. Was a win/win for both teams , although will be less of a win for the Texans if they don't get Romo.


The Ivory deal is pretty irrelevant to our cap health. Sure its bad value if he doesn't perform but it really isn't a big deal at all.

 

 

That is pretty much my point. Either you like both deals or you dislike both deals because they're pretty similar situations. The teams had more money than they could spend, and overspent for a player that they hope will help their team. 

Quote:OK. I'll bite.


The jaguars led the NFL in cap space in 2016 when the Ivory contract was put together. The same argument you are making for the browns you make against the jaguars. You're either a clown with zero credibility, an idiot, or both.




<span style="font-family:arial;">the jaguars paid a lot of money for a 26/27 year old running back that just had a very good season with the jets when they had more money to spend than they would have been able to.
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<span style="font-family:arial;">the browns paid a lot of money for an unknown second rounder when they had more money to spend than they would have been able to.
</span>

<span style="font-family:arial;">bad for the jags
</span>
<span style="font-family:arial;">good for the browns
</span>

<span style="font-family:arial;">makes total sense.
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We didnt take Ivorys contract on because we would get a pick out of it.


Our front office actually thought that chris ivory deserved to be paid that much. Thats why is monumentally worse. The browns took on a contract for a short time for the express purpose of getting a resource. We paid made a 28 year old running back with one 1000 yard season in his career a top 5 contract in total value.


The browns did this for a pick, the jaguars gave money to someone that didnt deserve it for no outside gain whatsoever


So no this isnt the same. The only common ground is that two bad players are getting paid more than theyre worth.

Quote:We didnt take Ivorys contract on because we would get a pick out of it.


Our front office actually thought that chris ivory deserved to be paid that much. Thats why is monumentally worse. The browns took on a contract for a short time for the express purpose of getting a resource. We paid made a 28 year old running back with one 1000 yard season in his career a top 5 contract in total value.


The browns did this for a pick, the jaguars gave money to someone that didnt deserve it for no outside gain whatsoever


So no this isnt the same. The only common ground is that two bad players are getting paid more than theyre worth.

 

Easy for you to say that Ivory didn't deserve it now. When the jags signed him, they signed him on the premise that he would be as productive as he was in NY. If he played up to that potential, you wouldn't be saying it was a bad contract. (well actually im sure you and the rest of the whine brigade would find a way.) But if the guy the browns draft is a bust, then they wasted 22 million dollars, which will be more than the jaguars spent on ivory. 

Quote:Easy for you to say that Ivory didn't deserve it now. When the jags signed him, they signed him on the premise that he would be as productive as he was in NY. If he played up to that potential, you wouldn't be saying it was a bad contract. (well actually im sure you and the rest of the whine brigade would find a way.) But if the guy the browns draft is a bust, then they wasted 22 million dollars, which will be more than the jaguars spent on ivory.

Ivory had one 1000 yard season and has dealt with injury his whole career, and we gave him one of the highest valued contracts at his position. Theres pretty much no angle whete thats a logical decision, even if he happened to live up to it somehow.

Quote:Ivory had one 1000 yard season and has dealt with injury his whole career, and we gave him one of the highest valued contracts at his position. Theres pretty much no angle whete thats a logical decision, even if he happened to live up to it somehow.

But it doesn't matter because we had more money than we could have spent? The same argument everyone makes for the browns.


So funny that you can't grasp the simple concept that your entire argument is based off of.

Quote:But it doesn't matter because we had more money than we could have spent? The same argument everyone makes for the browns.


So funny that you can't grasp the simple concept that your entire argument is based off of.

But we didnt spend that money for the express purpose of getting a pick out of it. We spent that money because the people whos jobs it is to evaluate talent and give out contracts based on that talent thoughtt Ivory deserved that money despite there being no evidence to suggest that. Its bigger than us both spending money lol.

Quote:I like how the first paragraph of the article talks about the osweiler trade being a mistake for the browns but everyone on here called the browns geniuses. Lol

Anyone who thinks the Browns werent geniuses is wrong. They took a 16m contract with 100m odd cap space where they have to committ to spend XYZ in a 3 year period and then on top of that pick up a 2nd.

Quote:That is pretty much my point. Either you like both deals or you dislike both deals because they're pretty similar situations. The teams had more money than they could spend, and overspent for a player that they hope will help their team. 

But you are implying you like the deal from the Texans point of view...and that Cleveland is on the wrong end of the deal...

 

Would you be upset if Jacksonville had gotten a 2nd round pick instead of Ivory?  Or are you hating the trade either way because it eats up cap space?

Quote:Anyone who thinks the Browns werent geniuses is wrong. They took a 16m contract with 100m odd cap space where they have to committ to spend XYZ in a 3 year period and then on top of that pick up a 2nd.

They can cut Osweiler next year and have 0 (ZERO) committed money.

 

They basically gave 16M in cap space for 1 year for a 2nd round pick....

Quote:That is pretty much my point. Either you like both deals or you dislike both deals because they're pretty similar situations. The teams had more money than they could spend, and overspent for a player that they hope will help their team.

The situations are very different though. You can see Ivory as a waste of money while still seeing the Browns deal as a good one.

Quote:The situations are very different though. You can see Ivory as a waste of money while still seeing the Browns deal as a good one.

As soon as someone tells me how the jaguars wasted money but the browns didn't, without using hindsight...


Did the jaguars have more cap space than they could have spent? Yes.


That's the argument made to defend the browns move.


Why is that argument valid for the browns and not the jaguars?

Quote:You are completely missing the point. 

Let me simplify it for you...forget the Ivory stuff you seem to have a hard on for.

 

Would you rather:

 

A.) End the year with 47 Million in Cap Space.

 

B.) End the year with 31 Million in Cap Space but have an additional 2nd round pick in the draft.

Paying a FA and straight up buying a draft pick aren't comparable...

Quote:I'll be glad when the draft is over and we can move on to practices..

You and me both.

Quote:Let me simplify it for you...forget the Ivory stuff you seem to have a hard on for.


Would you rather:


A.) End the year with 47 Million in Cap Space.


B.) End the year with 31 Million in Cap Space but have an additional 2nd round pick in the draft.

Essentially the same thing as saying...


A.) End the year with 47 million in cap space.


B.) End the year with 37 million in cap space but have the best running back in the AFC on your team.


What would you prefer, considering the jaguars had a pretty big hole at RB as well?

This was written by Bill Barnwell of ESPN

 

"Start with the picks. Cleveland sent the 142nd pick to the Texans for Osweiler, the 188th selection and a 2018 second-rounder. We don't know where the Texans will finish, obviously, but the fairest assumption would be that they will go 8-8 and hold the 17th pick in the second round, which would be pick 49. Trading 142 for 188 and next year's 49th pick generates 8.1 points of draft capital, which is equivalent to the 64th pick of the draft. That's the very last selection of the second round, the worst second-rounder available.

<p style="font-family:Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(72,73,74);">Is the 64th pick worth the $16 million the Browns will have to pay for Osweiler? No. While players like Dwayne Allen and Randall Cobb have been taken with the 64th pick in recent years and delivered plenty of surplus value on the relatively low rookie contracts they were assigned, those draft picks don't always hit. Cobb might have been worth $16 million in surplus value, but the average return on that pick doesn't approach $16 million. Research by Cade Massey and Richard Thaler and ESPN's Brian Burke suggests that these Day 2 picks are the most valuable ones in the draft, but even they don't come close to the salary the Browns picked up on Osweiler."