Quote:Kind of surprised LJ is the leading vote getter. As bad as he is, what team have you guys been watching?
Exactly. I can point to a handful of games and show where luke has been good. If I put together a Jonathan Cyprien highlight reel for his time here in Jacksonville it would be 8 seconds long.
Quote:Nice spelling of Joeckel, OP.
He sucks who cares
Quote:I wish the many people of the board who start topics like this or make this argument would get over it already.
They aren't pro bowlers... they aren't stars... They would still start on a lot of teams in this league and by no means are they busts.
Name me 2 teams the Joke or Cyprien would start for. No Cleveland browns
GM Charles Casserly said that the 2nd round is only a 50% historical chance to get a player, while 1st round 2nd overall pick is much, much higher...therefore...
Luke is a huge bust not Cyprien....
imagine if Cheifs would've picked him instead.. oh well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mElU-QtgS0
But if the Chiefs had taken Joeckel, we would have likely taken Fisher, who hasn't exactly lit it up either. In fact, I think Joeckel has played better than him.
Quote:Name me 2 teams the Joke or Cyprien would start for. No Cleveland browns
I could name 15.
Quote:Name me 2 teams the Joke or Cyprien would start for. No Cleveland browns
Ravens, Titans
This is their last year to show me something. No more average. Make plays. I'm really pulling for these guys.
I hope Cyprien does well now that he has supporting cast, but I am not confident that Luke will do anything but be traded to be honest.
I don't want either one but if I had to trash one right now it's cyprien
There's still a small chance joekel toughens up and actually does something
cyprien however, there are no excuses for him, he's just flat out terrible at everything he does
Joeckel's problem isn't toughness or strength. It's technique. He loses 1-on-1 battle due to poor technique. Physically he is as gifted as you would like in a LT.... Boselli talked about it at length and how frustrating it is to watch. He loses by messing up simple technique with his hands or feet.
Joeckel did not have a "solid"season by any stretch. Houston was by far his worst game but that doesnt somehow make the others better. Cyp at times appeared to be covering for mistakes whereas joeckel simply creates them on his own.
Its easily Joeckel and i'll throw out draft status and just go by on-field play. Cyp at least has had whole games where we thought he was looking good. Games where you could tell he had some wow factor. I cant think of a single game where joeckel notably manhandled a defender or had his name called for anything other them horrible holds, whiffs and getting put on skates into blakes lap.
Quote:He sucks who cares
As does your spelling and grammar.
Quote:Joeckel's problem isn't toughness or strength. It's technique. He loses 1-on-1 battle due to poor technique. Physically he is as gifted as you would like in a LT.... Boselli talked about it at length and how frustrating it is to watch. He loses by messing up simple technique with his hands or feet.
When it comes to Offensive Tackle play, I respect Tony Boselli's opinion as much as anyone's. Yet, the question that comes to mind is after 3 seasons in the NFL, why hasn't the technique problems with Luke Joeckel been rectified? Is it a situation in which Joeckel isn't listening to the coaches or is it a coaching issue?
Being that Joeckel has had multiple Offensive Line Coaches, assuming Boselli is correct, my guess is Joeckel isn't consistently doing what he's been taught.
Quote:When it comes to Offensive Tackle play, I respect Tony Boselli's opinion as much as anyone's. Yet, the question that comes to mind is after 3 seasons in the NFL, why hasn't the technique problems with Luke Joeckel been rectified? Is it a situation in which Joeckel isn't listening to the coaches or is it a coaching issue?
Being that Joeckel has had multiple Offensive Line Coaches, assuming Boselli is correct, my guess is Joeckel isn't consistently doing what he's been taught.
I guess he's not. It's just mental mistakes. after 3+ years though, if you keep making the same mental mistakes, maybe you won't ever get it fully.
Quote:I guess he's not. It's just mental mistakes. after 3+ years though, if you keep making the same mental mistakes, maybe you won't ever get it fully.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Jaguars decide to decline the 5th Year option with Luke Joeckel. Basically, sending him a message that he must make major progress in 2016 or the team is going to move on without him. The Kelvin Beachum addition gives the Jaguars leverage.
Quote:It's Joeckle. He was the 2nd overall pick. This is a gimme'. At least with Cyprien you can point to the overall lack of pass rush up front for most of our secondary issues. LT is mostly a one-on-one position with a DE. You can either anchor down and handle it. OR, you get blown back and blown up. Luke's issues are under a larger microscope. In Cyprien's case. You can look at the plays and see. "Oh okay, he got burned because so-so QB had 10 seconds and another 5 seconds to get some gatorade if he wanted to on that one" or "Okay, the play broke down and it's been 10 seconds, he can't run with that guy forever, at some point somebody on that front four has to stick a dagger in that QB". And that's been the case for the last three years with our defense.
Our pass rush is garbage. You saw it in mostly two games on an eye opening level. The first one being that San Diego game where old man Rivers was running for first downs on 3rd and long situations. In those cases you could say the secondary WAS doing it's job and the front seven was just stinking it up. And then obviously when we sent nine guys after Mariota and he pulled off one of the greatest QB runs in a long time maybe since the old Vick days (By the way, he's 4.5 or 4.6 guy compared to Vick's 4.2 or 4.3 speed in his prime).
This.
I think the jury is still out on Cyprien. Now that we have a solid FS installed, no excuses. This is his year to prove it.
I also understand why fans are upset about LJ but in fairness he was drafted in a miserable draft class. He is so so LT that will serve as good depth this year. Not ideal but better than no depth like we are accustomed to.
Both have competition (while not huge) they both will have to fight for a starting role this season & a roster spot for next year seems unlikely unless they prove otherwise during this season.
Quote:Please LT Luke Joeckel is the biggest fail, hands down. He was taken 2nd overall in the 2013 NFL Draft and was the first pick of GM Dave Caldwell & HC Gus Bradley to be the elite anchor to the offensive line for over a decade... instead he got injured after they traded Monroe away to move Luke to his Left spot from right (where he had struggled) and was out the rest of the season after what like one game after the trade. Then he failed in his 2nd year, and was even benched a few times in those last two years forcing them to sign Beachum & place him on the trade block in less than 3 years since they took him....
Johnathan Cyprien was taken in the 2nd round (that in itself is a huge difference being the 2nd overall pick in the 1st & comparing it to a guy in the 2nd, come on...) The Jaguars use their SS as a run stopper and pass rusher kind of like an additional SAM/SOLB on the field to which at times he did very well. He struggled at the start of his rookie year but towards the end got rather good at his role. He then got injured, and had horrible supporting DBs that also made him look worse. He had a bad year and while his starting role is in question most feel he should remain for depth if nothing else .. but Luke they just want gone...
Luke is my answer.. and Luke probably wont even be on the roster at the start of the season while Cyprien will be.
Umm.. what makes him "look bad" are the terrible angles he takes and his inability to tackle consistently... the other DBs have nothing to do with that.
Cyp by a lot.
Joekel has at least been serviceable. He hasn't lived up to his Draft status, but he's been "ok".
If both were cut today, Joekel would 100% be picked up. Cyp would most likely not.
The Joke. Although both are bad. Joeckel was a 1st round pick though, at one of the most important positions on any team.