Quote:I think groceries are still tax exempt as well.
Not from what I read... there would be no exemptions or deductions like there are at the state level...
Besides, who cares? The poor deserve their lot on life. They are the lazy losers that couldn't figure out how to be successful.
Those scum don't deserve to be Americans and they really shouldn't get a say in our countries decision making process.
Am I doing this right? :-)
Quote:Not from what I read... there would be no exemptions or deductions like there are at the state level...
Besides, who cares? The poor deserve their lot on life. They are the lazy losers that couldn't figure out how to be successful.
Those scum don't deserve to be Americans and they really shouldn't get a say in our countries decision making process.
Am I doing this right? :-)
That's not how this works!
But for real the best way to get out of poverty is to increase take home pay and learning to save. Does the production tax do any of that? A consumption tax would.
Quote:Oh, that's a good point. Now, instead of letting them eat cake, we'll let them eat cake that's already had a few bites taken out of it. Brilliant!
This is the new America. If you aren't for federalizing all policing you're racist. Build the wall. Racist. Bathroom of birth means your a bigot. If you don't favor government redistribution of all wealth you hate poor people.
Quote:That's not how this works!
But for real the best way to get out of poverty is to increase take home pay and learning to save. Does the production tax do any of that? A consumption tax would.
I get it, ideally you don't want the consumption or flat tax to work that way. But the reality dictates that is how it will turn out.
It's not like the underpaid don't want to save money, but it's a reality that it's very difficult to darn near impossible to save money if you're underpaid...
All your money is going out to pay the bills and support your family. That's nothing left for one to save if you're only making 40k a year and have a family of three or four.
I mean I've lived that, I know. And I'm a very frugal person just by my nature... there's no juice left to squeeze out of a rock.
Quote:I get it, ideally you don't want the consumption or flat tax to work that way. But the reality dictates that is how it will turn out.
It's not like the underpaid don't want to save money, but it's a reality that it's very difficult to darn near impossible to save money if you're underpaid...
All your money is going out to pay the bills and support your family. That's nothing left for one to save if you're only making 40k a year and have a family of three or four.
I mean I've lived that, I know. And I'm a very frugal person just by my nature... there's no juice left to squeeze out of a rock.
The truth is that we've inflated our currency and our lifestyles to unaffordable levels. I read that the housing market is up over the 2005 peak. I went to shop for a new car and the cheapest model was $16,990. I went for a gallon of milk and it was $4.79. Tuition is $500 and hour. Why are these things this way? The reason starts with G and ends with T. The more they intervene the worse it gets.
Quote:The truth is that we've inflated our currency and our lifestyles to unaffordable levels. I read that the housing market is up over the 2005 peak. I went to shop for a new car and the cheapest model was $16,990. I went for a gallon of milk and it was $4.79. Tuition is $500 and hour. Why are these things this way? The reason starts with G and ends with T. The more they intervene the worse it gets.
There's no g or t in inflation... well I guess there is a t...
But in all seriousness, I agree that government is the problem, but the problem I see is that the government had been bought out by the industries of the USA. The fact that we ignore Sherman anti trust laws have created oligopolies in m almost every market, this creates zero competition, allowing three big businesses to gouge the consumer...
The solution is with "we the people"
The solution is built into the dang constitution, if we'd just realize it...
Quote:I get it, ideally you don't want the consumption or flat tax to work that way. But the reality dictates that is how it will turn out.
It's not like the underpaid don't want to save money, but it's a reality that it's very difficult to darn near impossible to save money if you're underpaid...
All your money is going out to pay the bills and support your family. That's nothing left for one to save if you're only making 40k a year and have a family of three or four.
I mean I've lived that, I know. And I'm a very frugal person just by my nature... there's no juice left to squeeze out of a rock.
Just taking a guess here, but that's really not reality. Case in point, and this it true. We have a women that works with us as a janitor. She doesn't make a huge sum of money, but it's a "living wage" as described by most liberals (more than $15 per hour). She just recently found out that she has breast cancer. The problem? She couldn't "afford" health insurance under obamacare, so she isn't insured at all. The other problem? She's used up all of her "personal days" and "vacation days" in order to do "fun stuff", so she has no real time off to take. She opted out of the life insurance plan as well as the Short Term and Long Term disability plans available to all employees. She doesn't contribute to the company sponsored 401k plan which matches dollar-for-dollar up to 4% of an employee's contribution.
Yet, she does have the latest iPhone. After all, she is a "twit" that likes to post and read twitter, and she most certainly must update her Facebook status.
Quote:The truth is that we've inflated our currency and our lifestyles to unaffordable levels. I read that the housing market is up over the 2005 peak. I went to shop for a new car and the cheapest model was $16,990. I went for a gallon of milk and it was $4.79. Tuition is $500 and hour. Why are these things this way? The reason starts with G and ends with T. The more they intervene the worse it gets.
Refer to my comment above. A cell phone, cable (and/or satellite) TV and computers with high speed internet access used to be a "luxury". Now many people view that as a "must have". My bet is that if the consumer had to actually pay tax on that new iPhone or flat screen TV rather than getting something used, they would probably think differently.
Consumption tax now? It just gets worse around here...Why not just Chuck poor people in concentration camps?
I love all this tax fairness, but what about income fairness? People get these higher paying jobs often through nepotism as much as hard work. What about fair access to good education?
Quote:Consumption tax now? It just gets worse around here...Why not just Chuck poor people in concentration camps?
I love all this tax fairness, but what about income fairness? People get these higher paying jobs often through nepotism as much as hard work. What about fair access to good education?
Oh give me a freaking break. Care to show any real examples of people getting good paying jobs because of nepotism? What exactly would you classify as a "good paying job"? Please explain this "income fairness".
Donald Trump? Did he work his way up? Jaguars own Tony Khan? On a board within a year of graduation? Actually the local government health CEO here got fired for getting his daughter hired over here without going through due process and forcing a manager below to push it through. It happens everywhere all the time...are you that naive to the goings on in the world? Look at your presidential candidates... Another Bush and Clinton
Quote:Donald Trump? Did he work his way up? Jaguars own Tony Khan? On a board within a year of graduation? Actually the local government health CEO here got fired for getting his daughter hired over here without going through due process and forcing a manager below to push it through. It happens everywhere all the time...are you that naive to the goings on in the world? Look at your presidential candidates... Another Bush and Clinton
So your choice is to focus on higher level jobs rather than "good paying" jobs. Here is one that will throw liberals like you for a loop. How did Ben Carson and Carly Fiorinna get to the positions that they held? Was it because it was given to them? Explain how either one was "privileged" or "given" a position. I would venture to say that in both cases (and there are many) they worked for it and actually EARNED it.
Quote:Yeah, I don't think you get it...
First off, 20-30k a year for a family of four I'd poverty level living. So the fact that 45 percent of Americans aren't paying income taxes because their income is at this subsistence level is an indictment of this economy.
Of course some may wish to blame the workers for their low wages. But the fact that jobs have been flying overseas, the h1-b visas and other factors have depressed wages may be to much critical thinking to expect from the OP.
Secondly, the point that must economists find a consumption tax as a bad idea is because it is regressive in nature. While the working poor may not be spending alot of money, they will be spending all of it just to survive, they tend to not be able to save money... you know because the have to eat and support their family. So adding an additional tax on them really would have adverse repercussions.
Something to think about...
A few things Anchorman.
1. What are the reasons jobs are flying out of this country?
2. A majority of the "poor" in this country have no clue what poverty is.
3. With all of the people not working in this country why do we have HB1 Visa's?
4. If more people were paying into the system and had a stake in the game would there be more of an uproar for reform to the current system?
Quote:So your choice is to focus on higher level jobs rather than "good paying" jobs. Here is one that will throw liberals like you for a loop. How did Ben Carson and Carly Fiorinna get to the positions that they held? Was it because it was given to them? Explain how either one was "privileged" or "given" a position. I would venture to say that in both cases (and there are many) they worked for it and actually EARNED it.
They did earn it seems...I wonder if they had to work harder than the people from richer backgrounds with better connections? That's the point, you want so called fair tax but don't acknowledge that certain people get benefits and guaranteed decent jobs just because of who their parents are...
Actually its the drug dealers and underground economy that will get soaked.
Quote:So your choice is to focus on higher level jobs rather than "good paying" jobs. Here is one that will throw liberals like you for a loop. How did Ben Carson and Carly Fiorinna get to the positions that they held? Was it because it was given to them? Explain how either one was "privileged" or "given" a position. I would venture to say that in both cases (and there are many) they worked for it and actually EARNED it.
They did earn it seems...I wonder if they had to work harder than the people from richer backgrounds with better connections? That's the point, you want so called fair tax but don't acknowledge that certain people get benefits and guaranteed decent jobs just because of who their parents are...
Quote:Actually its the drug dealers and underground economy that will get soaked.
Be good for getting a job in the tax office though. Imagine the administration on a consumption tax.
Also it encourages saving over spending. Not sure the capatilist overlords would like that.
Quote:They did earn it seems...I wonder if they had to work harder than the people from richer backgrounds with better connections? That's the point, you want so called fair tax but don't acknowledge that certain people get benefits and guaranteed decent jobs just because of who their parents are...
That's always been the case and always will be the case. Whether the tax is fair or unfair, consumption or income, there will be nepotism both in government jobs and private sector jobs. In any event, that's a small fraction of how jobs are won. The current tax code does nothing to prevent that or compensate for it, so why oppose a different tax code on that basis?
The Fair Tax has the advantage of a huge incentive to locate multinational corporations in the US, which would be a boost to the economy and benefit everyone, rich or poor. I guess as a citizen of Australia you might not like that.
Quote:Be good for getting a job in the tax office though. Imagine the administration on a consumption tax.
Also it encourages saving over spending. Not sure the capatilist overlords would like that.
We have to do it. Entitlements are killing us.
The current tax code is 72k pages long. THAT'S impossible to administee
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