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Quote:Pretty basic: the middle class crybullies feeling the bern are going to get a rude awakening when the government starts sticking it to them. They want to use the government to assuage their jealousy and will only find themselves in the crosshairs. The "rich" don't have enough to pay for it all,even if they confiscate every dollar, the middle class must be the target. They will meet the enemy and he is them.

Meh, well I won't be one of those you're describing. I'm aware certain taxes may increase. However, in the long run, the country is broken and needs to be fixed...


Also, I still haven't heard of all these jealous people you like to demagogue. Some people, such as myself, think that decimating the middle class and increasing the hall between the wealthy and the rest of the country is bad for America.


You mention that some people that are Bernie supports will freak out when the government comes after them.


Dude, the reason people are backing Bernie (similar to you trumpettes) is that we feel we've been getting the shaft for a while now.


Berners identify and agree with Sanders that the system is rigged fur the wealthy, that the wealthy have spent the last 35 years using their power to corrupt our government for their own self interests, that the oligopoly needs to be broken up, that money is not speech, and that the middle class needs to be represented in our government.


A lot of these points are what trump discussed as well, believe it or not.


You may want to stop building straw men and actually consider what Bernie is campaigning on. You probably would agree with alot of his analysis...

Quote:Meh, well I won't be one of those you're describing. I'm aware certain taxes may increase. However, in the long run, the country is broken and needs to be fixed...


Also, I still haven't heard of all these jealous people you like to demagogue. Some people, such as myself, think that decimating the middle class and increasing the hall between the wealthy and the rest of the country is bad for America.


You mention that some people that are Bernie supports will freak out when the government comes after them.


Dude, the reason people are backing Bernie (similar to you trumpettes) is that we feel we've been getting the shaft for a while now.


Berners identify and agree with Sanders that the system is rigged fur the wealthy, that the wealthy have spent the last 35 years using their power to corrupt our government for their own self interests, that the oligopoly needs to be broken up, that money is not speech, and that the middle class needs to be represented in our government.


A lot of these points are what trump discussed as well, believe it or not.


You may want to stop building straw men and actually consider what Bernie is campaigning on. You probably would agree with alot of his analysis...

Sanders' answer for every possible question is more government. He's the anti thesis of me. He's the goateed Spock of reality. Trump is Hillary's carnival barker.

Quote:Sanders' answer for every possible question is more government. He's the anti thesis of me. He's the goateed Spock of reality. Trump is Hillary's carnival barker.

Oh, my bad, I thought you were a trump supporter...


Yeah, I know most of his solutions are not your cup of tea.


However, he's at least pointing out the problems. Cruz and Hillary rarely talk about them.

Quote:Oh, my bad, I thought you were a trump supporter...


Yeah, I know most of his solutions are not your cup of tea.


However, he's at least pointing out the problems. Cruz and Hillary rarely talk about them.

But parties just want more and bigger government, neither has any interest in advancing or defending individual freedoms.

Quote:But parties just want more and bigger government, neither has any interest in advancing or defending individual freedoms.

 

I like individual freedoms..however, I don't think corporations are individuals.

Quote:I have no problem establishing reciprocity on a base line regulatory structure to protect worker safety. I think its essential to establishing fair trade.


What I said was this idea that every word of the thousands and thousands of pages of regulations placed on businesses were whispered to Thomas Jefferson on the side of mount rushmore is a myth. Most of the regulations are written to close the door on any mom and pop producer being able to grow to a size that threatens a pre-existing conglomerate. We should ho through line by line and decide which is important and which isn't. Now we just add thousands and thousands of pages every year by executive fiat.

 

OK, so eliminate unreasonable regulations, and apply the same standards of reasonable regulation to manufacture by trading partners, sounds good to me.



As for the tax structure you better be damn worried. Detroit was the economic center of the universe. The businesses were forced out and now the place is like a wasteland. That can be a foreshadowing of the country. Why would you have a draconian tax system forcing companies out just to keep people out of work and on foodstamps. Talk about a negative feedback loop.

 

Detroit killed itself, not a draconian tax system



Capital goes where it is best treatedindicatofding indicator of economic growth has always been private capital investment not government spending. If we don't develop a climate that encourages capital investment in our markets then another 50 years from now we will all be yelling stories about what it wad like when America was great.

 

Sorry, seen too many policies that increase inequality and fail the sniff test under the pitch of 'economic growth'. Some of us feel we are already past the point of when America was great, and the unfettered pursuit of corporate growth has led us there.



As for immigration, we accept over a million legal immigrants a year. We cannot assimilate the worlds population. Immigration by definition has to be managed and controlled by the state otherwise there is no sovereignty.

 

Agree 100%, the state must control immigration. My point is the state does a crap job of doing so due to co-option by business interests that favor the labor pool provided by illegal immigration. I don't think there currently is a good option for legal entry for non-skilled labor.


Most employers especially in construction are forced to higher workers both legal and illegal under the table because the cost associated with human capital is so high in our system. It can cost between 20 to 30 dollars an hour to pay someone 12 to 15 dollars an hour when you factor in Rica withholding accounting workman comp unemployment general liability insurance etc. Etc. No one talks about that. We need to have a system that encourages hiring workers above board and not one that is driving the country into an underground economy and over reliance on foreign goods.

 

Umm, wait, you are saying that because of FICA, UE, etc, it doubles the cost of a worker? Hmm, from what I understand the additional costs are nowhere near that. Please explain.

SElf employed Son of a business owner. Trust me.


As for inequality, if capital continues to divest from our country we will all be equally poor.

Quote:SElf employed Son of a business owner. Trust me.


As for inequality, if capital continues to divest from our country we will all be equally poor.

Umm, no, I don't trust you. That isn't to say I think you are lying, just that our understandings are different. For example, here are some of what I think the expenses are:

Social Security tax - 6.2%

Medicare - 1.45%

UE tax - 6% (of 1st 7K)

Worker's comp - 1.85%

 

So where do you get 100%?

Does the money magically come out or does that require its own overhead for accounting and compliance?

Dude, you get to expense all that overhead... and also, you have to have accountants, managers, and administrators anyways!


Lol, it's not like if you got rid of those taxes you'd all of a sudden cut your business expenses by any material amount!

What about when its just you and a crew of guys.

Quote:Dude, you get to expense all that overhead... and also, you have to have accountants, managers, and administrators anyways!


Lol, it's not like if you got rid of those taxes you'd all of a sudden cut your business expenses by any material amount!

Horse crap, tax prep is a multi billion dollar a year industry. That's hundreds of ways to reduce that by burden.

Quote:What about when its just you and a crew of guys.

 

What, like sellin' drugs?

 

I'm pretty sure those dudes aren't even filing a 1120 or 1065...

Quote:Horse crap, tax prep is a multi billion dollar a year industry. That's hundreds of ways to reduce that by burden.

 

You know...  That may be true, but I'm sure that the tax prep your talking about is HR block, which is Personal Income Tax.  We're talking about businesses...  Businesses already have accountants to do thier books, you know?  I mean, come on you guys.  Don't go crazy over here.

 

Face facts...

 

By the way, isn't that word you used after "Horse" a word that could catch you a warning?  I'd change it to "puckey" if I were you.  Just lookin' out.

Quote:What, like sellin' drugs?


I'm pretty sure those dudes aren't even filing a 1120 or 1065...

No I mean a husband and wife that can barely afford to helpers to unload a truck.

Quote:Businesses already have accountants to do thier books, you know? I mean, come on you guys.

Bigger companies yeah. Smaller employers, the guy or girl just starting out with two guys doesn't have the revenue. For a multinational corporation those expenses seem minuscule. For small timers that can be the difference between writing themselves a check or not.

Quote:No I mean a husband and wife that can barely afford to helpers to unload a truck.

Gotcha, well... more than likely those dudes are getting paid cash and probably won't even report the earnings.


Or...


They get 1099'd and then they'd report that on a schedule c add independent contractors... which at best makes them sole proprietorship and the reporting goes on their 1040, which again personal income tax, which I don't think relates to this topic...

Quote:Bigger companies yeah. Smaller employers, the guy or girl just starting out with two guys doesn't have the revenue. For a multinational corporation those expenses seem minuscule. For small timers that can be the difference between writing themselves a check or not.

Dude, you're not gonna get an argument from me that out politicians pay lip service to "small business" but are in fact legislating to the benefit of large corporations at the peril of small businesses.


But with that said, the overhead to calculate these payroll taxes is not as drastic as you make it out to be...


Most software that small businesses buy to handle their books have these tax calculations built into the software package...


I could go into tax policy that hurts small businesses, what you are concerned about isn't an issue at all. Taxes are a cost of business, everyone knows it everyone accepts it. And the process of accounting for it is not draconian or intrusive at all...


A buddy of mine is an electrician that owns his own business. He pays his guys just fine, based on my career, we've talked about his business... the biggest administrative headache he has is finding the time to keep his receipts organized...

You can't just 1099 hourly employees.

Quote:You can't just 1099 hourly employees.

Now now JJ don't get technical that's not fair