Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Ah I forgot they gave up the next years first round pick.

 

Regardless, I'm not sure we should burn a draft pick to move up.

Quote:We have little reason to believe this will happen.

Not for me really. The tenacity in which he plays leaves little doubt for me. That, and I've seen him destroy some blockers in the run game.


I know that doesn't automatically mean he's going to be a sack machine, and I know a lot of people don't share my opinion on him, but IMO it's just a matter of time.

Quote:Considering Ansah is one of the best edge defenders in the league, and Williams was dominant as rookie, yea I think that's saying "much". You clearly don't watch a lot of football outside of Jaguar games.

You have to remember that Ansah was very inexperienced coming out of BYU, a school not exactly known for producing great defenders.  If you are looking at him just as a prospect, it's not hard to imagine a GM saying Bosa is a better prospect coming out than Ansah.

 

That does not, in any way, diminish Ansah's NFL accomplishments.

Quote:You have to remember that Ansah was very inexperienced coming out of BYU, a school not exactly known for producing great defenders. If you are looking at him just as a prospect, it's not hard to imagine a GM saying Bosa is a better prospect coming out than Ansah.


That does not, in any way, diminish Ansah's NFL accomplishments.

Along with the fact many people weren't even talking about Ansah until after the senior bowl, and that he was picked 5th in a draft seemingly lacking in talent, I agree that he wasn't that good of a PROSPECT.


Like you said, that does not diminish his accomplishments in the NFL.

Quote:You have to remember that Ansah was very inexperienced coming out of BYU, a school not exactly known for producing great defenders.  If you are looking at him just as a prospect, it's not hard to imagine a GM saying Bosa is a better prospect coming out than Ansah.

 

That does not, in any way, diminish Ansah's NFL accomplishments.

 

It depends on how you view "prospect". Was JPP a great "prospect" in his draft? Some would argue no, because he was very raw but his physical attributes were off-the-charts. Ansah was the same. I remember Senior Bowl talk with Ansah, and there were quite a few articles talking about him getting pulled aside by coaches to work on technique (because he apparently had little-to-none). 

 

He was that raw, but similar to JPP, the physical attributes were there. On the flip side, you have a guy like Bosa who some feel will have a limited ceiling because of some physical limitations. 

 

While some GMs will be fine with Bosa's limitations given his current development, others will use that limitation to his disadvantage and look at Ansah's physical traits and prefer him.

I absolutely, positively do not want the Jags to give up a draft pick to move up in the draft.

 

FWIW, Belichick was asked about one of Casserly's pronouncements last year and said something to the effect of,"Oh, that guy. He's right about as often as the weatherman."

 

You have to take all these guys with a grain of salt.

Regarding Ezekiel ' Ziggy' Ansah,  it was Senior Bowl week that set the stage for him being drafted by the Lions with pick # 5.   The Lions coaching staff that year coached the Senior Bowl squad Ansah was on.   Though his technique was raw compared to the vast majority,  if not all of the other D-Line prospects in Mobile that week,   the coached were very impressed with not only Ansah's athletic skills but his hustle,  intelligence,  and natural football instincts.   In terms of the latter,  Ansah had an interception in his first pre-season game ( against the Jets ).   For a player with so little football experience,  Ansah's natural feel for the game helped him greatly during the ongoing development of his techniques.   In 2015,  Ansah made huge strides technique wise as a pass rusher and truly became a complete DE.  

Quote:I absolutely, positively do not want the Jags to give up a draft pick to move up in the draft.

 

FWIW, Belichick was asked about one of Casserly's pronouncements last year and said something to the effect of,"Oh, that guy. He's right about as often as the weatherman."

 

You have to take all these guys with a grain of salt.

There is literally no reason at all to move up in this draft. Teams generally only move up in the 1st round for a QB.

Quote:Better prospect than Clowney is now or better than when he came out of college? If it's the former, I can see that simply because he's had so many injuries. If it's the latter, I just don't see it. Clowney was so much quicker, had more burst off the line, and could get off blocks better with his array of moves. Bosa may be a little stronger and have better hands but that's it.

Clowney had no array of moves. Clowney was only so good in college because he overshadowed everyone with his physical ability. Stronger and faster for his size. Idk what you were watching.

Quote:It depends on how you view "prospect". Was JPP a great "prospect" in his draft? Some would argue no, because he was very raw but his physical attributes were off-the-charts. Ansah was the same. I remember Senior Bowl talk with Ansah, and there were quite a few articles talking about him getting pulled aside by coaches to work on technique (because he apparently had little-to-none). 

 

He was that raw, but similar to JPP, the physical attributes were there. On the flip side, you have a guy like Bosa who some feel will have a limited ceiling because of some physical limitations. 

 

While some GMs will be fine with Bosa's limitations given his current development, others will use that limitation to his disadvantage and look at Ansah's physical traits and prefer him.

I don't disagree with this analysis, other than to say teams look at more than just the physical attributes in evaluating a prospect.

 

If physical attributes were the one thing that governed a prospect's grades, then Shawn Oakman should be the #1 overall pick.

 

I don't think he'll even sniff the first two rounds.

Also I wouldn't move up from 5. Someone of really high value will be there and will make a good addition to the team. Whether it's bosa, Jack, Ramsey, or vh3...

Quote:Regarding Ezekiel ' Ziggy' Ansah,  it was Senior Bowl week that set the stage for him being drafted by the Lions with pick # 5.   The Lions coaching staff that year coached the Senior Bowl squad Ansah was on.   Though his technique was raw compared to the vast majority,  if not all of the other D-Line prospects in Mobile that week,   the coached were very impressed with not only Ansah's athletic skills but his hustle,  intelligence,  and natural football instincts.   In terms of the latter,  Ansah had an interception in his first pre-season game ( against the Jets ).   For a player with so little football experience,  Ansah's natural feel for the game helped him greatly during the ongoing development of his techniques.   In 2015,  Ansah made huge strides technique wise as a pass rusher and truly became a complete DE.  

Right.

 

Bosa may well rate as a better prospect coming out than Ansah, but that doesn't mean he'll be the better player between the two, nor does it necessarily impugn Ansah.

Quote:Also I wouldn't move up from 5. Someone of really high value will be there and will make a good addition to the team. Whether it's bosa, Jack, Ramsey, or vh3...

I agree. Moving up could leave a bad taste in our mouths. I would almost guarantee Cleveland takes a qb no matter what is said leaving atleast one of Ramsey, Bosa, or Jack to be there. One of the three would be a difference maker on this defense. I would stay put and roll the dice.

Quote:Clowney had no array of moves. Clowney was only so good in college because he overshadowed everyone with his physical ability. Stronger and faster for his size. Idk what you were watching.

He has more than Bosa, which is what I was getting at.  Bosa has a couple of moves but he doesn't adjust as well as Clowney does.

Quote:I really don't get the whole thing against Clowney.


They have him playing LB, and he is nasty against the run. I have no doubt sack numbers will be abundant for him soon.

people are praying to label him a bust lol when hes on the field hes fantastic.

Quote:Clowney had no array of moves. Clowney was only so good in college because he overshadowed everyone with his physical ability. Stronger and faster for his size. Idk what you were watching.

 

I think that this is the true thorn in the side for anyone who is trying to evaluate talent at the collegiate level. What you care about isn't really what they do, hence the statement about how "stats don't tell the whole story for a college player", but rather who they do it against and how will those moves work when they are in the League. It's not whether or not a Defensive Lineman has a good Rip move, or whether or not a Wideout can beat the jam, or if a Lineman has a quick first step, but rather how those moves will work when you are playing against other professional football players.

 

How good is your Rip when you're facing off against Dave DeCastro? Or how effective are you breaking press coverage from Richard Sherman? Or just how quick is that first step when you face JJ Watt? Typically, you are watching these guys perform against players that may not even make it into the NFL, so the environment that you are viewing them in is inherently flawed.

 

To me, that's why the Draft is always about big guys that run fast and move well. It's not that those things mean they will be productive, but it gives the individual a better shot at learning how to be effective once they play against grown men. Talking football is a ton of fun, but would you really want your job to hinge on whether or not a 20 year old guy can play at a high level?

Smh.


The guy said safer and more productive than Clowney HAS been. Not that bold a statement really.


I see no reason to move up. Jack is a hell of a consolation prize.

Click bait

Quote:Right.

 

Bosa may well rate as a better prospect coming out than Ansah, but that doesn't mean he'll be the better player between the two, nor does it necessarily impugn Ansah.

 

Absolutely.  

 

It will be interesting to see what position Joey Bosa ends up playing.  The consensus seems to be Bosa fits best as a 4-3 DE.   But if Bosa goes to Tennessee,  Cleveland,  or San Diego in the top 3 selections of the draft,  he will either be a 3-4 DE ( 5 Technique type of player ) or a 3-4 OLB.  

Barring a trade, the first 5 picks are predictable,

 

1. Titans, they need a lineman to protect their best player Mariotta  and Tunsil is rated very highly

2. Browns, they are taking a QB

3. Chargers, they desperately need secondary help and Ramsey is rated #1 overall on many boards.  If Tunsil were to drop, ie someone trades up to #1 and grabs a QB, then they might take Tunsil as their Oline stinks

4. Cowboys, Bosa is the pick.  Cowboys love pass rushers and they aren't very good right now in that area. 

5. Jaguars,  Jack - LB was the one position the Jags have not improved in this offseason.