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I was reading an article in the Weekly Standard about how polarized the country is right now, and one thing they cited was racial polariization, which they said has increased lately.   The evidence they cited was a poll where they asked people if the country has become more racially polarized.  People said yes, the country is more racially polarized than it has been recently.   But is that really evidence of increasing racial polarization?   Or are people just reading articles about how racial polarization is increasing and the cited in those articles is> polls that say it is?  It's a circular logic. 

 

"Is the country becoming more racially polarized?"

 

"Yes."

 

"What makes you think that?"

 

"I read an article that says it is." 

 

"Have your own attitudes towards other races changed lately?"   <That's the real question.  Not just, "Do you think other people's attitudes have changed?"  Have YOUR attitudes changed.

 

Mine haven't.   Have yours?   Why?  What would cause you to change your attitude towards people of other races?  

 

Obama says Trayvon Martin could be his own son.   Does that statement actually change your attitude towards black people as a whole?  Not unless you are just looking for some reason to hate black people, in which case, you are already a racist. 

 

I would bet that very few people have actually changed their attitude towards other races.  They read articles about how racial polarization has increased, and they believe it.  But I bet it's really not true.  

 

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Now, all of you who respond to this post, if you could, tell me, have your attitudes towards other races changed lately, and if so, how and why.  

 

I'd bet that most of you would say, racial polarization is increasing, and at the same time, most of you would say, your own attitude hasn't changed. 

White cops are breaking into Calculus class to kill black teens how could you not have heard this?

There's a Black Man in the White House.  Some folks have never gotten over that.

 

The Trayvon Martin case helped push suspicious people further into their own prejudiced camps.  That's on both sides of the racial divide, by the way.

 

And then there's Black Lives Matter v Police Lives Matter v All Lives Matter.  For me it's All Lives Matter>Police Lives Matter>Black Lives Matter, but for many it's the other way around.  I've been alive a while, so I can remember times when things were more polarized.  I think the difference now is that it's in our face 24/7.

Quote:There's a Black Man in the White House.  Some folks have never gotten over that.

 

The Trayvon Martin case helped push suspicious people further into their own prejudiced camps.  That's on both sides of the racial divide, by the way.

 

And then there's Black Lives Matter v Police Lives Matter v All Lives Matter.  For me it's All Lives Matter>Police Lives Matter>Black Lives Matter, but for many it's the other way around.  I've been alive a while, so I can remember times when things were more polarized.  I think the difference now is that it's in our face 24/7.

 

But what about yourself?   Have your own attitudes changed?  

I think there's instead Political Polarization.  People on both sides have started to view the other side as the "enemy".  You can even see it on this board.  Anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'wrong' and 'uneducated'.  People who don't share the same values as you can't possibly be intelligent.  People have started taking it a slight against them when their ideas are discussed in a negative light.  

Quote:There's a Black Man in the White House.  Some folks have never gotten over that.

 

The Trayvon Martin case helped push suspicious people further into their own prejudiced camps.  That's on both sides of the racial divide, by the way.

 

And then there's Black Lives Matter v Police Lives Matter v All Lives Matter.  For me it's All Lives Matter>Police Lives Matter>Black Lives Matter, but for many it's the other way around.  I've been alive a while, so I can remember times when things were more polarized.  I think the difference now is that it's in our face 24/7.

 

Barack Obama is a tool no matter what his skin color. His actions in cases like the Zimmerman shooting have pushed racial dissension, by offering his input before the facts were known. Now that everyone knows (though they refuse to accept) that Martin was a criminal who justifiably lost his life it makes Obama look like a fool.

 

I take the Gunny Hartman approach to racism, you are all equally worthless in my eyes.

I'm starting to think liberals are flat out [BLEEP]!

Different strokes for different folks. It's always been a reality that different people want different types of culture and government. Some cultures prefer a highly socialized government, some prefer an urban environment, some prefer an independent existence, some prefer a restricted government, we can have all of the above if we'd just let the states govern themselves as their people wanted. The polarization comes into play when one group wants to force the other to live in their preference.

But my question remains.   Has anything caused you to change your own mind about people of another race?    Do you know anyone personally who has had their mind changed about people of another race?  

 

People talk about racial polarization getting worse, but I don't see it.   My mind hasn't changed about people of other races, and I don't know anyone whose mind has changed about people of other races.   I don't know any racists who have given up racism, and I don't know any formerly non-racists who are now racists.  The people I know who are racists are still racists, and the people who weren't racists are still not racists.  

 

I know people protest, and people riot, and burn down buildings, and people say stuff other people don't like, but does that mean anyone has actually changed their mind about anything?  To have polarization get worse, someone has to have changed their mind about something.  

Quote:But my question remains.   Has anything caused you to change your own mind about people of another race?    Do you know anyone personally who has had their mind changed about people of another race?  

 

Just erased a rambling 5 paragraph response.

 

Short answer is yes and yes

Quote:Just erased a rambling 5 paragraph response.


Short answer is yes and yes

Would you mind elaborating a little?

Quote:I think there's instead Political Polarization.  People on both sides have started to view the other side as the "enemy".  You can even see it on this board.  Anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'wrong' and 'uneducated'.  People who don't share the same values as you can't possibly be intelligent.  People have started taking it a slight against them when their ideas are discussed in a negative light.  

Totally stole that for a thread.  There are not enough people in the middle, or those middle people need to get a third party going.  The Logic party

 

Quote:Barack Obama is a tool no matter what his skin color. His actions in cases like the Zimmerman shooting have pushed racial dissension, by offering his input before the facts were known. Now that everyone knows (though they refuse to accept) that Martin was a criminal who justifiably lost his life it makes Obama look like a fool.

 

I take the Gunny Hartman approach to racism, you are all equally worthless in my eyes.

I completely agree he has pushed racial dissension and I don't like the way he is more worried about seasoned criminals dying than military and police veterans who serve their communities instead of weakening them.


With that said the war on drugs needs to leave the court room and instead enter the treatment facilities.  

 

Quote:I'm starting to think liberals are flat out [BLEEP]!

 

I think this is true of anyone on the far ends of the spectrum.  Their needs to be a middle ground and we as a society need to find it

 

Quote:But my question remains.   Has anything caused you to change your own mind about people of another race?    Do you know anyone personally who has had their mind changed about people of another race?  

 

People talk about racial polarization getting worse, but I don't see it.   My mind hasn't changed about people of other races, and I don't know anyone whose mind has changed about people of other races.   I don't know any racists who have given up racism, and I don't know any formerly non-racists who are now racists.  The people I know who are racists are still racists, and the people who weren't racists are still not racists.  

 

I know people protest, and people riot, and burn down buildings, and people say stuff other people don't like, but does that mean anyone has actually changed their mind about anything?  To have polarization get worse, someone has to have changed their mind about something.  

as a white male you see a lot of racism growing up towards blacks, even if it is only in the form of stupid jokes.  Mostly innocent I've never seen anyone take away opportunities from someone due to their color.  Maybe that is a result of living where I do and its different in other places but I have never witnessed it.  In the army I met many severe racists who have completely changed due to positive interactions with fellow soldiers of color so their is that going for us.  The way I see it is I have disdain for anyone who has no respect for another person and threatens them in anyway, those people are scum to me any other reason to hate someone does not exist to me.


I don't think it is as bad as people make it out to be as far as racial polarization is but I know its a bad idea for me to hang out after an Al Sharpton rally ends just like I'm sure its not a good idea to hang out after a trump rally in some backwoods state.


Rioting and protesting in the form it is taking is not good for anyone and the people that are burning down their own communities are wrong in many ways.  I feel bad for the quality individuals in those areas trying to sustain their livelihood in those areas.

Quote:But my question remains.   Has anything caused you to change your own mind about people of another race?    Do you know anyone personally who has had their mind changed about people of another race?  

 

People talk about racial polarization getting worse, but I don't see it.   My mind hasn't changed about people of other races, and I don't know anyone whose mind has changed about people of other races.   I don't know any racists who have given up racism, and I don't know any formerly non-racists who are now racists.  The people I know who are racists are still racists, and the people who weren't racists are still not racists.  

 

I know people protest, and people riot, and burn down buildings, and people say stuff other people don't like, but does that mean anyone has actually changed their mind about anything?  To have polarization get worse, someone has to have changed their mind about something.

My mind has changed due to the actions of others. If they happen to be people of color, no matter the color, then sure it's changed.


America in general is polarized and race and politics certainly fan the flames. Inflammatory comments and actions from the BLM folks, Trump supporters, etc., do not help their cause unless you're into that sort of thing.


We are no longer united as a country and haven't been for some time.

Quote:My mind has changed due to the actions of others. If they happen to be people of color, no matter the color, then sure it's changed.


America in general is polarized and race and politics certainly fan the flames. Inflammatory comments and actions from the BLM folks, Trump supporters, etc., do not help their cause unless you're into that sort of thing.


We are no longer united as a country and haven't been for some time.

 

In what way has your mind changed, and why?  

June 17, 2015 is a day I feel set this country back a few decades.

Quote:June 21, 2015 is a day I feel set this country back a few decades.

surely you mean June 17th, 2015.  what could be bad about international yoga day

Quote:surely you mean June 17th, 2015. what could be bad about international yoga day

Thx for the correction.


Yoga is overrated!

Quote:Yoga is overrated!

But yoga pants are not. 

Quote: 

Now, all of you who respond to this post, if you could, tell me, have your attitudes towards other races changed lately, and if so, how and why.  

 

I'd bet that most of you would say, racial polarization is increasing, and at the same time, most of you would say, your own attitude hasn't changed. 

 

I've pondered this post ever since I first read it, and had to think about exactly how to respond.

 

The answer to your first question is yes.  Now that comes with some "yes buts", and in all honesty, yes it changed my attitude/view of another race.  First of all, let me qualify my remarks by saying that I am not racist and not a bigot (at least I do my best to live this way).

 

My attitude/view towards black people in America has changed recently, but not against all black people.  Specifically, I've grown to really despise those blacks that refuse to be called black (I refuse to use the term "African American").  If you're black, you're black.  Most likely you and/or your immediate ancestors did not immigrate from Africa and become U.S. citizens.  That term is the "politically correct" way to describe a black person.

 

Next, the "movement" that is Black Lives Matter is purely "male cow excrement".  Now this isn't ALL black people, just those that seem to think that they are owed something or perceive themselves as being oppressed.  In our country, black people, white people, hispanic people, native americans, etc. all have the same opportunity.  Segregation ended back in the 1960's.  However, today you still have a segment of people that don't believe that.  The bottom line is, if a black person thinks that they are "owed" something or should have some kind of special privilege based on their skin color, then those are the ones that I am increasingly despising.  That goes for any other race.

 

Now in regards to your second question/statement, yes I do believe that racial polarization is increasing in this country.  It's not just a black vs. white issue though, there is more polarization against many races of people.  The black vs. white point of view that I outlined above is just a small example.  There is a certain segment of black people that are exactly as I described, and there is a segment of the rest of the population that feel like I do.  It generates an "us vs. them" kind of mentality.

 

Now do I feel that way about all black people?  Of course not.  There are far more black people that are just as against that kind of polarization as I am.

 

And before I start getting the "you're racist" comments, I'll just say this.  I am and have been in a "mixed marriage" (God I really hate that term) for well over 20 years.

Quote:Just erased a rambling 5 paragraph response.

 

Short answer is yes and yes

 

 

Quote:Would you mind elaborating a little?

 

I no longer look at people that are rioting as disadvantaged, oppressed people acting out because they have no other recourse.

 

Now I just see greedy people taking advantage of a situation.

 

When I grew up, when I said racism was dying, I heard the retort, "I'll believe that when there's a black man in the White House!!!"  Done.  Now some folks want to move the goalpost and keep stoking the fires of oppression. It's a selfish culture, and I'm not a fan of selfishness.

 

Recently, I started dating a junior high school teacher who is as liberal as it gets.  I asked her how it was to teach inner city kids.  Her answer was that they all have a sense of entitlement, that they expect free stuff from the government, which will make every right wing Rand believing jerk I've ever met smile.  Touche, douches.  It also makes them harder to teach, because they don't exactly do a great deal of self examination.  Or studying, for that matter.  My girlfriend is quick to point out that they have plenty of distractions, and I get that, but I am frustrated because nothing seems to help.

 

Thing is, it's not really about race, but culture.  And inner city Black culture is kinda whack.  There's lots of behaviors and attitudes learned there that will take a lot of time and energy to fix for the next generation to become productive citizens.  But I don't think throwing money at it will help.  And after Baltimore rioted, all I heard on the TV from Black leaders was, in essence, "Give us more money."  It's very disappointing.

 

Now, the other side:

 

As I've grown older, I realize the White superiority attitudes are incredibly ingrained.  People at the highest levels of our society are outwardly racially conscious, and privately racist jerks.  I've watched it in my own family and friends.  It's so deep-seated, I'm not sure it can change.  One hint:  you can't throw money at it and change it.  The only thing that will change it, very slowly, is integration.  I actually have a lot of hope for the millenials, as they really do seem to not care much what colour their friends are.  As annoying as they can be, at least that's getting a bit better.

 

Finally, I'm not like a lot of you that think it's getting worse.  I think it's about the same.  I actually think hatred is a closed system, because it's caused by the most basic human emotion: fear.  There will always be the same amount of fear, we'll just change the things we are afraid of.  Growing up, I encountered discrimination, as most of you have on some level.  I was denied a job because of my residency status.  I have been pulled over for driving while brown.  I was denied an apartment in San Francisco because I wasn't Asian.  I was refused service in a West Indian restaurant because I wasn't Black.  In the time I've spent  thinking about my response to Marty's thread, I've asked myself over and over, would that happen again today?

 

While I've enjoyed watching the gains in basic harmony between people who don't look alike while I've been alive, the unfortunate answer is:   Yes