Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:LOL, the Trumpettes are getting their panties in a wad. Reality over pipe-dreams is a real "female dog".

Really? Really? I still remember the thread you started thinking that no trump supporter could actually form a thought. Debunked that and ur still talking trash? Wow...

It's amazing that Obama's propaganda, being the media darling of all liberal news outlets during his campaigns, is still carrying over to TODAY, eight years later.  He can still do no wrong it seems in the eyes of some.

Quote:It's amazing that Obama's propaganda, being the media darling of all liberal news outlets during his campaigns, is still carrying over to TODAY, eight years later. He can still do no wrong it seems in the eyes of some.

Its even worse. Hes not blamed for the things that he took control of! Student loan debt is at the front of the liberal platform and he has been in charge of it for the last 6 years. They run against the healthcare system like they didn't just take over one-sixth of the economy. It's crazy!

Quote:I'm sticking with a failure of public education.

 

That's actually a close second.  I firmly believe that kids coming out of K-12 indoctrination government public education are not prepared for the real world.  I see it every day in young recruits in our armed forces.  These young "kids" (18-24 year olds) only know social media, their smart phones and computer games.  Most of them have no clue as it relates to politics or world affairs.  Many of them are not interested in saving/investing a portion of their income, they are only interested in "making the payments" on their car, their new HDTV, etc.

 

I would bet that most in that category couldn't point out Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea or Iran on a map without the aide of their smart phone.  Many of them don't know the history of WWI or WWII or the sacrifices that were made.

 

For perhaps the first time in history, a generation is going to leave behind a country and opportunity that is less than what their parents/grand-parents/great-grand-parents left them.  It's pretty sad really.

Quote:Really? Really? I still remember the thread you started thinking that no trump supporter could actually form a thought. Debunked that and ur still talking trash? Wow...

 

I'm not "talking trash", I'm talking reality here.  Please link said thread that I started.  Reality hurts doesn't it?

Quote:Really? Really? I still remember the thread you started thinking that no trump supporter could actually form a thought. Debunked that and ur still talking trash? Wow...

Quote:I'm not "talking trash", I'm talking reality here.  Please link said thread that I started.  Reality hurts doesn't it?

Strange times indeed when the two of you are bickering like jilted lovers.

Quote:What do you mean failure?  It's accomplished exactly what its set out to do; create indoctrinated peasants.

 

Who are now voting for Trump.

Quote:Really? Really? I still remember the thread you started thinking that no trump supporter could actually form a thought. Debunked that and ur still talking trash? Wow...

 

Declaring yourself right is not debunking anything.

Screwby

Quote:I still blame Gene.

Does B-b-but Gene! last as long as B-b-but Bush!? If so Dave will be here a long, long time.

Quote:Who are now voting for Trump.

Who already voted for Barry twice. Who cry for government to rule over ever minute detail of their lives like Oface. Who are Ready for Hillary!


It works both ways and I need a spot on your couch, I've already worn mine thin the last four years.

Quote:Who already voted for Barry twice. Who cry for government to rule over ever minute detail of their lives like Oface. Who are Ready for Hillary!


It works both ways and I need a spot on your couch, I've already worn mine thin the last four years.

 

Are you familiar with the term couchlocked?

Quote:Rightfully so? Since when did destruction of other peoples property become a rightfully so expression of policital disent?


I'm against a convention taking it away from trump if he has the most delegates he should get the nomination God help us. But to suggest the riots if he doesn't would be justified makes his supporters no better than the fergusun thugs.

 

 

Quote:You lose me here, revolt and riot are two separate things. You think its a reason to revolt organize and march on the feds armed if you must I'd respect it, you start destroying other peoples property in a riot your no better than the Chicago or Baltimore thugs.

Unfortunately, it appears that the majority of Trump's supporters are too uneducated not to riot.

Quote:For perhaps the first time in history, a generation is going to leave behind a country and opportunity that is less than what their parents/grand-parents/great-grand-parents left them.  It's pretty sad really.

 

This part is so ridiculous it is hard to know where to start.  The generation before gave us this generation.  The middle class has been one horizontal line for 40 years.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...story.html

 

Not surprisingly, facts are different from perception.  Drop out rates all time low and scores are up.  10% went to college in the 30's, 40's and 50's.  Now, enrollment is around 65%.  I remember TMD arguing how much better the old days were and how violent people are now a days except crime is down.  Those little facts still did not matter.

 

I thought this part of the article was great: “Going back to at least 1880, the business community has never said a nice word about public schools. Every generation of graduates is supposedly stupider than the last,” says David C. Berliner, a professor emeritus of education at Arizona State University. “The demonization of youth is a national pastime in the U.S.”

Quote:Are you familiar with the term couchlocked?

I'm hungry but the fridge is just too far away, (giggle).

Quote:This part is so ridiculous it is hard to know where to start.  The generation before gave us this generation.  The middle class has been one horizontal line for 40 years.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...story.html

 

Not surprisingly, facts are different from perception.  Drop out rates all time low and scores are up.  10% went to college in the 30's, 40's and 50's.  Now, enrollment is around 65%.  I remember TMD arguing how much better the old days were and how violent people are now a days except crime is down.  Those little facts still did not matter.

 

I thought this part of the article was great: “Going back to at least 1880, the business community has never said a nice word about public schools. Every generation of graduates is supposedly stupider than the last,” says David C. Berliner, a professor emeritus of education at Arizona State University. “The demonization of youth is a national pastime in the U.S.”

 

Answer this question.  Are you better off now at this point in your life than your parents were?  I don't know if you are old enough to have adult children, but if so ask yourself this.  Are they better off now than you were at their age?  What about the young ones growing up now?  Is the opportunity there for them to succeed?

 

It used to be that high school students would work part time and/or summer jobs in fast food and/or retail in order to have some spending money and also to save for college.  Today those jobs are filled by people that either dropped out of school or are unable to find gainful employment.  You have people that think that working as a fast food employee or a retail clerk at WalMart is a "career".  They are demanding higher (unrealistic) wages and benefits at the cost of the normal "average" wage earner.  Granted, there are many people that actually move up within a company and go on to be successful in those kinds of industry, but the one thing that makes them stand out are work ethic and the characteristic of working hard to achieve.

 

You don't see that today.  Many want to "get paid now" for work/positions that were once considered a stepping stone to a better career.  More important is the latest cell phone so they can "tweet", the latest cars, clothing, etc. as well as cable/satellite television.  They have been raised around it and expect it to be something that is "a given" rather than something to work for and achieve.

 

Typical trades such as being a plumber, carpenter, electrician, auto mechanic, etc. are "looked down upon" as "working class jobs" even though the skills necessary to perform those jobs are much higher than the skills required to work at McDonald's. People working in those trades are very much more higher skilled and earn (starting out) around what people that think that McDonald's is a career are demanding.

 

I would say that today's younger generation hasn't learned one important lesson that my generation and those before me learned.  SACRIFICE.  Nothing comes easy and nothing is a given.

Quote:Answer this question.  Are you better off now at this point in your life than your parents were?  I don't know if you are old enough to have adult children, but if so ask yourself this.  Are they better off now than you were at their age?  What about the young ones growing up now?  Is the opportunity there for them to succeed?

 

If we are talking career and money than yes, I'm better off at this point in my life than my parents were.  I have two kids, 6 & 2.  The school they go to, which is public, is pretty well disciplined and they hold all kinds of events, thing I do not remember when I went to school (the frequency of them).  As far as the education standards, I honestly can't remember too much of kindergarten other than reading books in class, but they have a much different system than I had growing up.  Are they better off?  Well, hard to answer that as I had a good childhood, but my Dad divorced my mom when I was 2 and he was pretty unstable (alcoholic) until I turned 20 (sobriety).  I would be whisked away every summer and pretty much lost that part of my childhood since he lived in New Hampshire.  Often times I was by myself there, but it wasn't all bad.  Currently my wife and I have been together since we were 15 so as of now our kids have had both of their parents their entire lives.  Better?  I don't know.  Different, yes.  This of course is only my experience.  I try not to judge the world solely through my own eyes.  

 

It used to be that high school students would work part time and/or summer jobs in fast food and/or retail in order to have some spending money and also to save for college.  Today those jobs are filled by people that either dropped out of school or are unable to find gainful employment.  You have people that think that working as a fast food employee or a retail clerk at WalMart is a "career".  They are demanding higher (unrealistic) wages and benefits at the cost of the normal "average" wage earner.  Granted, there are many people that actually move up within a company and go on to be successful in those kinds of industry, but the one thing that makes them stand out are work ethic and the characteristic of working hard to achieve.

 

The job market has changed.  That is based on supply and demand.  Walmart is the largest company in the US and employs 2,200,000 people.  That wasn't the case before.  I guess we should blame the consumer or middle class whose wages have stayed basically the same for 40 years shopping at a store whose main selling point is low prices because they couldn't afford the rising living costs?  In 1955 General Motors was the largest company.  Is that the fault of the workers that there are less of those types of jobs?  

 

Correct, they are demanding higher wages and benefits.  I don't get the unrealistic part.  Minimum wage is under what it should be when adjusted for inflation and when you add efficiency into the mix it is way under, but of course, there are different opinions on the math and what it should be.  Lets go back to the good ole' days though.  Back then in 1955, CEO's were paid about 20 to 1 compared to their works.  In the 70's it was 30 to 1.  Now, depending on if you count stock options cashed or invested, we have figures from 200 to 1 up to 400 to 1.  9 CEO's make 800 to 1 compared to their employees.  So maybe if all the high executives and CEO's weren't making way more than they use to they could afford to pay their employees more.  You say unrealistic.  I'm just having a hard time digesting that.  I thought free market was supposed to work for the workers?  Based on the numbers, that is not occurring.  These companies are bringing this upon themselves and the workers are fighting back, yet you are sticking up for the super rich.  I don't get it.  

 

You say people worked harder then and now and the average American is lazier, yet more by a substantial amount are going to college if they graduated High School than they did.  You state things, but never back it up with anything.  

 

You don't see that today.  Many want to "get paid now" for work/positions that were once considered a stepping stone to a better career.  More important is the latest cell phone so they can "tweet", the latest cars, clothing, etc. as well as cable/satellite television.  They have been raised around it and expect it to be something that is "a given" rather than something to work for and achieve.

 

But minimum wage isn't keeping up with inflation.  Let's start there.  Workers overall are making their CEO's way more profitable than they use to.  Their reward?  

 

Yes, we are in a different age.  I won't argue against everything you say.  People could make better purchasing decisions, but also, we have a lot more to choose from than we did.  Also, if Americans are buying more and making these companies more money, shouldn't they be earning more?  If Americans stopped purchasing than more companies will go out of business.  It is a double edged sword.  

 

Feel free to sight some actual statistics on Americans expect to be given things and not work and achieve it.  Again, more are going to college than they did in the past.  

 

Typical trades such as being a plumber, carpenter, electrician, auto mechanic, etc. are "looked down upon" as "working class jobs" even though the skills necessary to perform those jobs are much higher than the skills required to work at McDonald's. People working in those trades are very much more higher skilled and earn (starting out) around what people that think that McDonald's is a career are demanding.

 

Per PayScale the average pay for a plumber, pipe fitter, etc...  in February 2016 was about $55,000.  If a fast food worker earned $15 an hour at 40 hours a week they would make $31,200.  Maybe your math is off or you didn't bother looking.  Per PayScale as of January 2016 the average income of a fast food worker was $17,000,  I think $23,800 difference per year which is more than average income of fast workers now is not around what plumbers make.

 

I would say that today's younger generation hasn't learned one important lesson that my generation and those before me learned.  SACRIFICE.  Nothing comes easy and nothing is a given.

 

I think they have.  The OECD ranked the US 29th out of 34 countries in work-life balance.  I think Americans are sacrificing plenty.  The middle class has sacrificed a lot.  Productivity is way up yet pay is basically the same.  CEO's on the other hand are cashing in.  Are Americans not working harder and sacrificing or are they being underpaid? The middle class being stagnant while production and profits are up along with the 1% continuing to gain ground would suggest Americans are under paid.

jagibelieve, where did you go?

Quote:jagibelieve, where did you go?

 

Nowhere, I'm still here.  I'll even respond to some of your comments above.

 

First off, yes I base my outlook based on my own life experiences.  While monetarily I do earn/have more than my parents did at my age, but the thing is, the tax burden is much higher for me than it was for them.  The cost of healthcare is way higher than it was for them.  The education system is worse and has been getting worse for the younger generations.

 

Regarding your comments on the job market and my idea of unrealistic wages.  Cashiers, fast food workers, etc. are still only worth a certain amount.  The same goes for laborers in the construction industry.  An argument can perhaps be made that these used to be "middle class jobs", but in reality, they have always been entry level positions.  Those kinds of jobs were never meant to be a "career" they were meant to get a foot in the door, or provide a means for a young high school kid to earn some money for college or perhaps a "want" such as a car.  Many of the manufacturing jobs used to be better paying and were a good source for middle class people to have a career.  However, a few things drove those types of jobs to pretty much extinction.  New technology, demand for higher wages and benefits, over regulation and taxation.  It's gotten to the point where it's cheaper for companies to produce products elsewhere.

 

As far as minimum wage not keeping up with inflation.  The value of workers has not risen for the same reasons that I already outlined.  A worker at a fast food restaurant is no more valuable now than they were 5, 10 or even 15 years ago.  They are expendable and the turnover is generally pretty high.  There isn't any real skill involved and there is a large pool of workers who will take the job for what the going wage is.  Add in the cost of regulation (workers compensation, mandated healthcare costs, etc.) and it's not too hard to see why wages haven't risen, especially at the bottom.

 

You bring up the fact that the average pay for a plumber in February 2016 was $55,000.  That works out to roughly $26.44 per hour.  Show me a plumber in Jacksonville that makes that much.  The reality is that a plumber in Jacksonville probably makes somewhere in the mid 30's (just an estimate on my part).  The problem with your figure is that it takes into account the higher tax rate/higher cost of living states.  Yes, a plumber in California or New York might make the amount that you quoted, but how much more does it cost to live there?

When I come to the political section I've learned to read and not read certain peoples opinions.  I've come to realize that some here will take the opposite side of a discussion just because it's fun for them.  Be it people on the right or the left.

 

Everyone on the left here are just making up bogus reasons on why Trump supporters should not be bad, when in reality if he has the most delegates he should be the nominee.  If the same thing happened to Bernie Sanders you would be equally as mad at the system, so to come here and act like it's some sort of a joke that others are mad is idiotic.

 

**Disclaimer:  I would not ever vote for Trump.