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If there is a scenario where no QB is taken before we pick, would you be in favor of taking the highest rated QB and pulling an Eli Manning type draft day trade? The pass rushers I like would be a reach at 5, but if we could get additional picks, we may have the luxury of trading back up in the draft to grab guys we covet.


Or do you feel like whoever is there at 5 we have to select regardless?

That trade was worked out before the draft.  You don't draft a QB without having a trading partner lined up already.

I don't recall San Diego having that deal worked out ahead of time. There would definitely be a market, but it would be a gamble for sure.

Quote:I don't recall San Diego having that deal worked out ahead of time. There would definitely be a market, but it would be a gamble for sure.

San Diego already knew he wasn't going to play there.

No way.  Imagine if we tried that in 2013 with Geno.

In the event they can't move the QB can play LEO?

Quote:If there is a scenario where no QB is taken before we pick, would you be in favor of taking the highest rated QB and pulling an Eli Manning type draft day trade? The pass rushers I like would be a reach at 5, but if we could get additional picks, we may have the luxury of trading back up in the draft to grab guys we covet.


 

Absolutely NOT!  

 

No no no a thousand times NO!!!!!!!

 

What if teams don't view any of the QBs as high first round picks, much less worth having to deal up to get them?

 

We're stuck with the guy without any hope of getting anything of value in return-at least for another year or so-and maybe even then we don't return that equals or surpasses the value of the 5th overall pick.

 

In the meantime, the QB languishes on our bench behind Bortles, we miss out on potentially a superior athlete at a position of need, and barring injury, we get zero impact whatsoever from our first round pick.

 

With due respect, that is one of those message board things that never come to reality.

 

Even the Eli Manning thing you discussed wasn't the same, because that was viewed as a very strong QB class with three QBs carrying top 12 grades,  two with a top 5 grade, one from a family of elite QB prospects.

 

In that instance, SD had the #1 overall pick and picked Manning, who didn't want to play for them.  The Giants had #4 overall, and there was a QB worth that pick that SD was willing to take in case they couldn't convince Manning to play for them.

 

Those draft and trade things are common in the NBA.  I can only think of three instances it has happened in the NFL:  In addition to the one referenced above, In 1991 Dallas and Detroit were working out a deal on the clock, but they were running out of time.  Dallas, who was trying to trade down, asked Detroit who they were targeting (DT Kelvin Pritchett, who wound up a Jaguar).  Dallas selected Pritchett for Detroit, then finished up the details of the trade.  Dallas sent Pritchett to Detroit for the package of picks.

 

There was another involving Dallas back in 1989.  At the top of the second round, Dallas wound up taking Steve Wisniewski, then wound up trading him to the Raiders for later picks.

 

But that sort of thing is atypical, and I certainly don't want the Jaguars gambling like that with our pick.  I'd rather the team be criticized for a mild reach than to be potentially stuck with a QB we don't need.

I think in that scenario, we could unload that QB as early as 7 and get an additional pick or two.

Not a fan of the QB hostage tactic unless it's a pre-arranged trade involving a vet edge rusher and a boat load of additional picks.

Quote:No way.  Imagine if we tried that in 2013 with Geno.

Imagine if we tried it in 2004... I was shouting at the TV that we should, but the TV didn't listen to me. But this year? If teams that need QB help as badly as those ahead of us aren't taking those quarterbacks, what makes you think anyone will be willing to make a good trade for one?

Quote:I think in that scenario, we could unload that QB as early as 7 and get an additional pick or two.

The only way that works is:

 

1.  The 49ers actually value the QB we select and do not value any other QB comparably.

2.  Somebody else is actually willing to trade up for that QB

 

In that scenario, the best you could hope to do is what Dallas did with Steve Walsh.  They took him in the first round of the 1989 supplemental draft, which cost them the top overall pick in the 1990 draft.  Later (1990) they traded Steve Walsh to New Orleans for a 1st and 3rd round pick in 1991 and a 2nd round pick in 1992.

 

In the Kelvin Pritchett and Wisniewski examples I mentioned above, the risk was minimal for Dallas because when building, they could always use another DT or another G.  If they got stuck with those players, they could reasonably count on immediate contributions from those players.

 

Not so with us and one of the QBs.

 

But there is a reason that is a rare exception.

 

I think the only hand you end up forcing is your own.

 

If you want to trade down, just complete the deal and let them pick the QB then you pick the guy you want.

 

Don't risk getting stuck with the QB you can't use.

Just take the BAP at 5 and be done with it. If we draft a QB there for some kind of weird trade idea, we'd lose all leverage and it would be like a brand new car, once you drive it off the lot, you've lost thousands of dollars in value. 

Quote:Imagine if we tried it in 2004... I was shouting at the TV that we should, but the TV didn't listen to me. But this year? If teams that need QB help as badly as those ahead of us aren't taking those quarterbacks, what makes you think anyone will be willing to make a good trade for one?

But that's the point.

 

NOBODY does that because the rest of their teams need building.

 

Bill Polian is a hall of fame GM.  He built the Bills into a Super Bowl team, he built Carolina into a quick contender, and built the Colts into a Super Bowl champion.

 

In 1998, he drafted Peyton Manning first overall.  In 1999, he had a top five pick in the draft.  1999 was considered a top heavy QB draft, and there were at least 4 that went in the top dozen or so picks (Tim Couch, McNabb, McNown, Culpepper). 

 

Under your logic, he would have been better served bypassing Edgerrin James (who gave his Colts some 10,000 plus yards rushing), drafting McNown or Culpepper in the hopes someone would turn around and trade him a boatload of picks.

 

That never happens.

lol Draft Wentz or Goff? What is wrong with some of you people?

 

And if we can't make the trade? Then what?

 

Just stupid.

Quote:lol Draft Wentz or Goff? What is wrong with some of you people?

 

And if we can't make the trade? Then what?

 

Just stupid.

Exactly.

 

If you want to trade down, just do it.  Don't try to get cute and extort other teams by hoarding a QB you clearly can't use.

I was just thinking out loud as I see several truly QB needy teams out there. And a minimum of 2 will go day 1.

Quote:But that's the point.
 
NOBODY does that because the rest of their teams need building.

 
I might not know much about football, but I do know now and did know then that if the rest of your team needs building, then you don't draft Reggie Williams.
 

Quote:Bill Polian is a hall of fame GM.  He built the Bills into a Super Bowl team, he built Carolina into a quick contender, and built the Colts into a Super Bowl champion.
 
Under your logic, he would have been better served bypassing Edgerrin James (who gave his Colts some 10,000 plus yards rushing), drafting McNown or Culpepper in the hopes someone would turn around and trade him a boatload of picks.

No, under my logic, he would have been better off picking Daunte Culpepper at that position than James Johnson.

No way, the difference between Elway, Eli Manning and this year's draft is that those two were considered by far the top pick in the draft.  Colts screwed up by not holding out for more picks in the Elway trade but the Chargers did alright.  The problem for the Jaguars is that no QB is rated that high.  If they were, the Jaguars would have no chance drafting that player #5.  If a team really wants a QB so bad, they would probably make a trade with San Diego or Tennessee.  So there is really only so much the Jaguars can ask for.  Also the Jaguars need a few more players on defense and this draft is loaded with defensive players.  So I can't see them passing up on a top defensive prospect. 

Quote:No way, the difference between Elway, Eli Manning and this year's draft is that those two were considered by far the top pick in the draft.  Colts screwed up by not holding out for more picks in the Elway trade but the Chargers did alright.  The problem for the Jaguars is that no QB is rated that high.  If they were, the Jaguars would have no chance drafting that player #5.  If a team really wants a QB so bad, they would probably make a trade with San Diego or Tennessee.  So there is really only so much the Jaguars can ask for.  Also the Jaguars need a few more players on defense and this draft is loaded with defensive players.  So I can't see them passing up on a top defensive prospect. 

Exactly.

Quote:I was just thinking out loud as I see several truly QB needy teams out there. And a minimum of 2 will go day 1.

I was thinking about the Jags trading Lee for Julio. I'll go start a thread about it.