Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:The funny aka sad thing about that is that I would bet more than half of the 18 negative votes are openly stumping for Fournette.

Your openly not stumping for Fournette. That's even funnier.


If we had Jerry Rice at TE, it wouldn't matter bc of Bortles.


We need a guy to take pressure off of him who can score while he can't.


A freakin Guard or TE can't do that without involving Bortles in the equation.

Quote:KY is going to have a mental breakdown if Thomas is on the board and the Jags take Fournette.

He wouldn't be the only one.

I wouldn't mind Howard at all but not at #4

Quote:Good points but longevity plays a factor too. A TE can be effective into his mid 30s whereas a RB usually falls off before he's even 30.

This whole thing is stupid. You take the best player. You don't worry if a player is still going to be contributing in 11 years. You take the guy that you think is hands down the best player, some teams factor in need more than others.


But if fournette is graded at a 94 and Howard is graded at an 88. You don't pass on fournette because maybe, JUST MAYBE, Howard could have the longer career.


It's those kinds of decisions that lead to a team full of mediocre players.

Quote:Your openly not stumping for Fournette. That's even funnier.


If we had Jerry Rice at TE, it wouldn't matter bc of Bortles.


We need a guy to take pressure off of him who can score while he can't.


A freakin Guard or TE can't do that without involving Bortles in the equation.

He should just save us all the time and make it his signature. I'll make it for him...


"Fournette is a wasted pick. I don't like Fournette. He won't play long because I can see the future. Fournette can't play out of the shotgun. I know everything. Sparq percentile."

Quote:This whole thing is stupid. You take the best player. You don't worry if a player is still going to be contributing in 11 years. You take the guy that you think is hands down the best player, some teams factor in need more than others.


But if fournette is graded at a 94 and Howard is graded at an 88. You don't pass on fournette because maybe, JUST MAYBE, Howard could have the longer career.


It's those kinds of decisions that lead to a team full of mediocre players.

Actually I do not mind if we get Fournette, I was just making a response in regards to time since he was bringing that up. More or less just playing Devil's Advocate. There are just a few guys I would take ahead of him though

Quote:I wouldn't mind Howard at all but not at #4

I wouldn't like it at all but I'd welcome Fournette.


Thomas is my favorite player in the draft.

Quote:Actually I do not mind if we get Fournette, I was just making a response in regards to time since he was bringing that up. More or less just playing Devil's Advocate. There are just a few guys I would take ahead of him though

I didn't think you did mind. It was moreso a general statement just based on the back and forth.

Quote:Your openly not stumping for Fournette. That's even funnier.


If we had Jerry Rice at TE, it wouldn't matter bc of Bortles.


We need a guy to take pressure off of him who can score while he can't.


A freakin Guard or TE can't do that without involving Bortles in the equation.

If Bortles doesn't figure it out it's not going to matter if we have a run game or not. We'll just wind up being the Bengals/Texans next purgatory team up. 

 

If Blake does figure it out then a TE who is great at run blocking, great at pass blocking, and can beat you in the receiving game in multiple ways will help more than a running back.

Quote:I didn't think you did mind. It was moreso a general statement just based on the back and forth.

Yeah, I agree they will probably take the highest graded player out of their needs. If Fournette is a 94 and Howard is an 89, they'll take Fournette.

Quote:Yeah, I agree they will probably take the highest graded player out of their needs. If Fournette is a 94 and Howard is an 89, they'll take Fournette.

I'm not in love with the Fournette pick and I really like Howard, but I understand that Fournette is one of the best RB prospects to come out in a long time and also probably the best one that the jaguars have been in a proper position to get. So I'd understand the pick.


Adams is who I prefer, but I wouldn't be mad seeing a premier talent in Fournette on the team.

I think OJ at 4 is too high.  I think it's more likely we take him if we trade down a few spots with a team that may want Fournette like Carolina or a team that wants a QB like Cleveland trading up from 12, though OJ may not be there at 12.

 

I wouldn't be upset at any pick, because I just don't let football upset me once the game is over, but the concern I have about Fournette is that we didn't run block well last year.  I'm not high on Yeldon, but I think he could be a top 10 back in this league behind Dallas's O-line which is why I'd rather focus on the line and at least OJ can help somewhat in that regard, but 4 is still too high I think.  I'm really liking the trade into the teens and take Lamp scenario and pick up an extra 2nd and maybe more in the process, but that may prove difficult to find a willing trade partner.  I wonder is 12 too high to take Lamp?  I could see a trade between Cleveland and us if Trubisky is there at 4.

Quote:If Bortles doesn't figure it out it's not going to matter if we have a run game or not. We'll just wind up being the Bengals/Texans next purgatory team up.


If Blake does figure it out then a TE who is great at run blocking, great at pass blocking, and can beat you in the receiving game in multiple ways will help more than a running back.

I don't think Bortles matters. Fournette is the best player in the draft. He will give us 10 years to fix the oline. He could run for 1000 yards and 8 TDs behind our current line.


If we have 5 Boselli's, Bortles will still need to fix himself. /thread

Quote:I don't think Bortles matters. Fournette is the best player in the draft. He will give us 10 years to fix the oline. He could run for 1000 yards and 8 TDs behind our current line.


If we have 5 Boselli's, Bortles will still need to fix himself. /thread

1k yards and 8 TDs...well that would be downright bad for a top 5 RB pick.

Here are some highlights..

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://youtu.be/bFobCyK8LIg'>https://youtu.be/bFobCyK8LIg</a>

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://youtu.be/CgGCLCBwzHU'>https://youtu.be/CgGCLCBwzHU</a>


Nick saban said that with the running game being so good plus the passing game.. Alabama didn't fully utilizing Howard talent properly..


Personally I would rather trade with carolinas 8th pick and get Howard there.. They take fournette we get extra picks..


4th overall though is a bit too high..


I say go fournette here.. Better move not just for bortles.. But the team as a whole..

Quote:I think any receiving position shouldn't be taken in the top 5. Unless they have a combination of Calvin Johnsons character/physicality/talent.


But a WR's or TE's ratio of Impact is lower compared to a HB or obviously QB. Depending on the personell package a Receiver will have a 1/3 chance of making an impact or in some other packages a 1/5 chance. Whereas a starting running back is going to constantly have a 1/2 chance of touching the ball if he's on the field.

Howard isn't on Megatron's level (let's not kid ourselves, there's only a few of them out there), but he's pretty up there as far as "freak" athletes go.

 

For me, what intrigues me with Howard is his possible "fit" in this offense. I've talked in previous posts about how I feel our personnel (having our three best offensive players being WRs) and our target identity (physicality and running the football) don't quite "mesh". Teams who want to be physical and run the football often do it with 2 WRs, 1 FB, and 1 TE. 

 

For us, there's a few issues:

 

1. We do not have a FB in our roster right now

2. Our TEs are either good blockers (Lewis/Koyack) or good receivers (Rivera/Sterling), but not both

3. It takes one of our 3 best playmakers (Lee, Hurns, ARob) off the field.

 

So, how do you get 3 WRs and still have a run-the-football identity?

 

By having a 6'6 251 TE who can run block, pass block, speed to stretch the defense, catch passes and get open in the middle of the field, catch passes out of the backfield, and has the speed to run away and pick up YAC.

 

The thought of adding Howard to this offense just sounds so tempting. 

 

When teams go 3 WRs, the normal tendency for the defense is to go nickel to match speed. A player like Howard creates such a mismatch. Let's say we motion Howard to the slot to give us a 4 WR look. As a defense, what do you do?

 

If you put your SS on him to leave the two LBs for run support, you leave your passing defense vulnerable.

 

If you put a LB on him to keep the safety deep, you now have left yourself with 4 down lineman + 1 LB to go up against 5 OL and a running back.

 

Simply put, having a player like OJ (if he lives up to his potential and utilized as a weapon), will change how teams defend against us.

Quote:Howard isn't on Megatron's level (let's not kid ourselves, there's only a few of them out there), but he's pretty up there as far as "freak" athletes go.


For me, what intrigues me with Howard is his possible "fit" in this offense. I've talked in previous posts about how I feel our personnel (having our three best offensive players being WRs) and our target identity (physicality and running the football) don't quite "mesh". Teams who want to be physical and run the football often do it with 2 WRs, 1 FB, and 1 TE.


For us, there's a few issues:


1. We do not have a FB in our roster right now

2. Our TEs are either good blockers (Lewis/Koyack) or good receivers (Rivera/Sterling), but not both

3. It takes one of our 3 best playmakers (Lee, Hurns, ARob) off the field.


So, how do you get 3 WRs and still have a run-the-football identity?


By having a 6'6 251 TE who can run block, pass block, speed to stretch the defense, catch passes and get open in the middle of the field, catch passes out of the backfield, and has the speed to run away and pick up YAC.


The thought of adding Howard to this offense just sounds so tempting.


When teams go 3 WRs, the normal tendency for the defense is to go nickel to match speed. A player like Howard creates such a mismatch. Let's say we motion Howard to the slot to give us a 4 WR look. As a defense, what do you do?


If you put your SS on him to leave the two LBs for run support, you leave your passing defense vulnerable.


If you put a LB on him to keep the safety deep, you now have left yourself with 4 down lineman + 1 LB to go up against 5 OL and a running back.


Simply put, having a player like OJ (if he lives up to his potential and utilized as a weapon), will change how teams defend against us.

!!!!!

Quote: 

 

1. We do not have a FB in our roster right now

2. Our TEs are either good blockers (Lewis/Koyack) or good receivers (Rivera/Sterling), but not both

3. It takes one of our 3 best playmakers (Lee, Hurns, ARob) off the field.

 

So, how do you get 3 WRs and still have a run-the-football identity?

 

By having a 6'6 251 TE who can run block, pass block, speed to stretch the defense, catch passes and get open in the middle of the field, catch passes out of the backfield, and has the speed to run away and pick up YAC.

 

The thought of adding Howard to this offense just sounds so tempting. 

 

 

 

^  

This is the best argument for taking him high. Our TEs currently are primarily one dimensional and if you want a threat on the field in a one TE set, you need a guy that can be a swiss army knife.  (pass protect, run block, get open and catch)

Quote:Here are some highlights..

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://youtu.be/bFobCyK8LIg'>https://youtu.be/bFobCyK8LIg</a>

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://youtu.be/CgGCLCBwzHU'>https://youtu.be/CgGCLCBwzHU</a>


Nick saban said that with the running game being so good plus the passing game.. Alabama didn't fully utilizing Howard talent properly..


Personally I would rather trade with carolinas 8th pick and get Howard there.. They take fournette we get extra picks..


4th overall though is a bit too high..


I say go fournette here.. Better move not just for bortles.. But the team as a whole..

 

 

I see him finding space in zones to get wide open deep and turning shorter passes into huge plays, but I'm not seeing much in the way of red zone work.

I thought I'd look up combine results of past TEs to see if I can find an OJ Howard clone, or at least comparable TEs.


 

Let's see...


 

• OJ Howard, Alabama - 6'6, 251, 4.51 40, 22 reps, 30" vert, 121" broad, 4.16 20-yd, 6.85 3-cone
  
  
• Greg Olsen, Miami - 6'6", 254, 4.51 40, 23 reps, 35.5" vert, 114" broad, 4.48 20-yd, 7.04 3-cone
  
  
• Owen Daniels, Wisconsin - 6'4", 253, 4.65 40, 23 reps, 34.5" vert, 114" broad, 4.11 20-yd, 6.88 3-cone
  
  
• Tyler Gronkowski, Maryland - 6'6" 255, 4.79 40, 26 reps, 33" vert, 122" broad, 4.26 20-yd, 6.92 3-cone
  
  
• Jared Cook, S. Carolina - 6'5", 246, 4.49 40, 23 reps, 41" vert, 123" broad
  
  
• Jimmy Graham, Miami - 6'6", 260, 4.53 40, 38.5" vert, 120" broad, 4.45 20-yd, 6.90 3-cone
  
  
• Zach Ertz, Stanford - 6'6", 249, 4.76 40, 26 reps, 30.5" vert, 111" broad, 4.47 20-yd, 7.08 3-cone
  
  
• Jason Witten - 6'6", 264, 4.65, 25 reps, 31" vert
  
  

 

Low vert, but otherwise stacks up well. Still not sold on him at #4 tho.