Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:If Dave had a leadership style that worked and was followed down the line, there would have been no need for Coughlin to impose his style.

 

Tight or loose, either can work.

 

But not without a roadmap or recipe book.  We seemed to have good ingredients, but not necessarily ones that were good together or put together the proper way.

Any approach works. If its just one way, then everyone would be trying to do it the same way. You gotta have the right leadership in place to make sure whatever vision is followed through.

 

This is why you've had several Belichick disciples go all over the NFL and CFL, none of which has been able to duplicate what they have in New England.

 

Same thing in the NBA.

 

Everybody wants to emulate the Spurs way, but none of them have Pop.

Quote:Any approach works. If its just one way, then everyone would be trying to do it the same way. You gotta have the right leadership in place to make sure whatever vision is followed through.

 

This is why you've had several Belichick disciples go all over the NFL and CFL, none of which has been able to duplicate what they have in New England.

 

Same thing in the NBA.

 

Everybody wants to emulate the Spurs way, but none of them have Pop.

 

It's hard to emulate anything if you don't understand the "why" behind what they do.

 

Simply copying something isn't understanding the "why" behind the "how" it works.

Quote:You know you had Eli Manning as a quarterback right? So your last post is a shot at Blake please reevaluate that situation.

Wasn't a shot at Blake at all.

 

In fact, Eli once played a lot like Blake did last year, and even regressed into an interception machine a couple years ago.  I don't know if there's ever been a harder QB to figure out than Eli Manning, and Coughlin endured the experience.

 

And, the entire time, stuck to the system of his team, and put the team above individuals.  He put Kurt Warner on the bench to play Eli, because it was in the best interest of the team.

 

Coughlin often quotes John Wooden, the legendary UCLA coach, and uses his "Pyramid of Success" as a foundation for building his teams.  The pinnacle of that pyramid is "competitive success".  Coughlin's replacement for that pinnacle is "Love", as he told his team before the Giants' win in SB 46.

 

Yeah, he's all about team, and I honestly hope Blake's a part of it.

Quote: 

Coughlin often quotes John Wooden, the legendary UCLA coach, and uses his "Pyramid of Success" as a foundation for building his teams.  The pinnacle of that pyramid is "competitive success".  Coughlin's replacement for that pinnacle is "Love", as he told his team before the Giants' win in SB 46.

 

 

Quote:Wasn't a shot at Blake at all.

 

In fact, Eli once played a lot like Blake did last year, and even regressed into an interception machine a couple years ago.  I don't know if there's ever been a harder QB to figure out than Eli Manning, and Coughlin endured the experience.

 

And, the entire time, stuck to the system of his team, and put the team above individuals.  He put Kurt Warner on the bench to play Eli, because it was in the best interest of the team.

 

Coughlin often quotes John Wooden, the legendary UCLA coach, and uses his "<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.coachwooden.com/pyramid_of_success'>Pyramid of Success</a>" as a foundation for building his teams.  The pinnacle of that pyramid is "competitive success".  Coughlin's replacement for that pinnacle is "Love", as he <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/tom-coughlin-tells-ny-giants-love-guy-room-heartfelt-message-night-super-bowl-xlvi-article-1.1017462'>told his team</a> before the Giants' win in SB 46.

 

Yeah, he's all about team, and I honestly hope Blake's a part of it.

I understand and respect your message and I didn't mean any disrespect to your post. People quick to say that Tom is not a fan of Blake but fail to realize that Blake has a lot of similarities to Eli Manning so I think that was overblown by the local media and others in this city.

Buford would be a great coach.

Quote:

Quote:It's hard to emulate anything if you don't understand the "why" behind what they do.

 

Simply copying something isn't understanding the "why" behind the "how" it works.

 

There are Patriots/Spurs people all over the NFL/NBA that were hired by other teams to emulate those franchise's culture. It's a bit silly to think that those people don't understand the whys after spending many years learning from BB/Pop. It's not that they don't understand the "whys", its that those culture take a special blend (and some timing and luck) to do what they did.

 

Would Pop have been afforded the time to implement his vision had he not lucked into Tim Duncan, a superstar that is as selfless as they come, to build his team around? It's not just Duncan either, guys like Ginobili (a top Euro star at the time) was added and he too bought into the system. Ownership too didn't meddle with Pop's success. As great as Pop is, what if he had been with the Knicks with the disarray in their ownership in Dolan? 

 

Same with BB. Sure he's great, but his finding of Brady increased his chances of succeeding greatly (not to mention a "bad" call going his way for the first SB). If not for the tuck rule, maybe his legacy doesn't happen. Same as Pop, if BB was in Dallas with Jerry meddling all the time on FO decisions, would he be able to duplicate his success? 

 

Point is, you can take philosophies and learn it, and apply it when you take over for another team. But unless the execution of that vision go es perfectly with the right circumstances, most of the time it goes badly.

Luck has nothing to do with it.  Luck is preparedness + opportunity.

 

If it isn't working, then you aren't understanding why.  The why could very well be you're missing the players to execute.  You have to understand why it's failing in order to fix it, or change/create/modify/adapt to fit what you have until you do get the right ingredients.  You change the players to get the fit, or fit to the players.  Where you fail is where you're missing the pieces and unwilling to change them, or unwilling to change to best use your pieces.

 

Hubris is the most common reason for such failure.  If you aren't willing or simply fail to identify the problems, you can't possibly fix them.  

Man, every interview I have seen with TC so far he is just brimming with enthusiasm. He seems to be thriving in this position and really enjoying it.

 

http://www.jaguars.com/media-gallery/vid...d849e5caa6

Quote:Luck has nothing to do with it.  Luck is preparedness + opportunity.

 

If it isn't working, then you aren't understanding why.  The why could very well be you're missing the players to execute.  You have to understand why it's failing in order to fix it, or change/create/modify/adapt to fit what you have until you do get the right ingredients.  You change the players to get the fit, or fit to the players.  Where you fail is where you're missing the pieces and unwilling to change them, or unwilling to change to best use your pieces.

 

Hubris is the most common reason for such failure.  If you aren't willing or simply fail to identify the problems, you can't possibly fix them.  

 

The Spurs and the Patriots are successful for a reason. To think that the people who Belichick and Popovich have groomed under them would not know the "why" goes against the very nature of why those teams are successful. 

 

To think that luck didn't play a role in those teams success is being naive. Had the Spurs not lost David Robinson for the entire year, they would not have been in the position to land Tim Duncan. And even after that, they made a jump in the NBA lottery to leap frog the Celtics who had much better odds to have the #1 pick that year. The Celtics, btw, ended up with Raef Lafrentz. There's no other possible way to "spin" that circumstance as having a bit of luck.

 

The Spurs could have prepared themselves as best as they could, but if Robinson doesn't get hurt, they go to the playoffs, don't end up with the #1 pick to get Duncan, there's absolutely no telling if they are the dynasty that they are now.

 

Same thing with the Patriots. Yes, they were one of only two teams to really scout Brady. But it still took every single team passing on him for 6 rounds before they drafted him. And what if Bledsoe didn't get hurt? Would Brady have gotten the chance to play and make the playoff run?

 

It takes everything top-to-bottom (ownership, management, coaching, players) to click for franchises like those two to emerge. And yes, that includes some luck too.

I choose not to call everything I don't understand "luck."

Quote:I choose not to call everything I don't understand "luck."

I prefer the term "magic"

Quote:I prefer the term "magic"

Agree, "luck" is trademarked by the clots.

Quote:I prefer the term "magic"

 

Magic.  Pixie.  Dust.

I've been reading up on the concept of "expectations" lately, specifically when it comes to coaching, and in even more open-ended ventures like managing an organization. 

 

I stumbled across this statement / transcribed conversation:

 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Interviewer: "Coach, what are your expectations for your team and your players?"

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Coach: "For my team, I expect to win. That's what we work for. For my players, I have no expectations."

 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Interviewer: "'No expectations' Coach? That seems odd. Don't you have an idea in your head of what your players should accomplish?"

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Coach: "Yes I do. I have a very clear idea of what they need to do.

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Interviewer: "Aren't those 'expectations' then? You have a goal that they need to accomplish?"

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Coach: "I don't have expectations for my players, I have demands. There are things that they need to do in order to be successful, and these things they are required to do. Expectations leave room for someone to fall short. Demands do not. If they players cannot perform to the demands, then they aren't doing their job. We don't have people who can't do their jobs, so we make sure as coaches that the players perform what they are told to do and in the manner that they are told to do it. In short, we have no expectations, only demands."

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

Now, while I don't think you can employ that kind of heavy handedness in a more traditional workforce / organization, I do like the idea of a coaching staff not allowing one single rep of any one exercise falling below the level demanded of the participants. I like that a lot. It's not about yelling and getting in player's faces. It's about not allowing them to walk away from a rep when full effort was not given.

Quote:<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

Now, while I don't think you can employ that kind of heavy handedness in a more traditional workforce / organization, I do like the idea of a coaching staff not allowing one single rep of any one exercise falling below the level demanded of the participants. I like that a lot. It's not about yelling and getting in player's faces. It's about not allowing them to walk away from a rep when full effort was not given.

 

What about a message board?  Can we demand you get back to making the damn birthday threads? 

Quote:What about a message board?  Can we demand you get back to making the damn birthday threads? 

 

Make me.

 

But yeah, I'll do better.

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<div style="color:rgb(28,32,34);font-family:Helvetica, Roboto, 'Segoe UI', Calibri, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
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Coughlin on Bortles: In order for him to produce at level we want we need a team effort; he needs to protect the ball & control his position

<div style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(105,120,130);">8:14 AM - 24 Mar 2017
 

<p style="color:rgb(28,32,34);font-size:16px;">#Jaguars Ex. VP Tom Coughlin: The guys we added, Church, Calais, Bouye, will come in & the 1st thing that will be noticed is the work ethic

<div>8:11 AM - 24 Mar 2017
 

<p style="color:rgb(28,32,34);font-size:16px;">#Jaguars Exec. V.P. Tom Coughlin: This is a team that needs to learn how to win and learn how to finish. We added guys who will help do that

<div>8:08 AM - 24 Mar 2017
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+1, I like hearing these things. TC has expectations around here. We haven't had those around here in a while, at least not REAL expectations.

Quote:It all starts with the right players.  Can't achieve without them.

 

You have to have the right Head Coach too. You won't achieve without one of those either, no matter how talented your players might be.

Quote:You have to have the right Head Coach too. You won't achieve without one of those either, no matter how talented your players might be.

 

To sustain success, you certainly do need both, but it can't be done at all without the players.

 

Jerry Jones and Barry Switzer would agree.  It can be done without the coach if you get to keep the players.

 

No coach has won without them.  Look at Belichick in Cleveland, vs his time after Brady.