Quote:We don't have the talent to play ANY scheme. It's not the "Seattle scheme" that's holding us back. It's the PLAYERS. Get some players, and the scheme, any scheme, will work.
Finally someone gets it lol. Like it is amazing to me that people think we have people who would intentionally lose with a bad scheme that could cost them their jobs instead of rectify it. Clearly there is another reason this scheme is struggling. Could it be the players are just not good. Could it be we have no pass rush so no matter what you play behind it just hold up.
We can play from cover 0 to cover 6, 3-4, 43, bears 46, nickle, 335, 246 I don't care. We don't have much defensively interms of talent and the most important part, the defensive line we have 0 of. The scheme is the least of my concerns.
How's that for math lol
Quote:We don't have the talent to play ANY scheme. It's not the "Seattle scheme" that's holding us back. It's the PLAYERS. Get some players, and the scheme, any scheme, will work.
I don't think that's entirely the case, the scheme can both help and hurt depending on the players. For instance, Bryce Paup was great in a 3/4 but was completely out of place when he came here. James Harrison wouldn't have the same impact if he were in the 4/3. You wouldn't put Simeon Rice as the end in a 3/4 because he's not the right guy in that scheme. All great players who would be awful if used wrong.
I'm not saying the Jags have great players, but the ones they do have don't seem to be a good fit for the scheme they've been running for 3 years now and the NFL is a copycat league that evolves quickly. It's past time to move on to something else.
Quote:Finally someone gets it lol. Like it is amazing to me that people think we have people who would intentionally lose with a bad scheme that could cost them their jobs instead of rectify it. Clearly there is another reason this scheme is struggling. Could it be the players are just not good. Could it be we have no pass rush so no matter what you play behind it just hold up.
We can play from cover 0 to cover 6, 3-4, 43, bears 46, nickle, 335, 246 I don't care. We don't have much defensively interms of talent and the most important part, the defensive line we have 0 of. The scheme is the least of my concerns.
How's that for math lol
No, we have someone who is stubborn about his way even when it's not working who then told us at a press conference that he didn't know what else to do. That's the whole issue, the guy doesn't know any other way.
Quote:Finally someone gets it lol. Like it is amazing to me that people think we have people who would intentionally lose with a bad scheme that could cost them their jobs instead of rectify it. Clearly there is another reason this scheme is struggling. Could it be the players are just not good. Could it be we have no pass rush so no matter what you play behind it just hold up.
We can play from cover 0 to cover 6, 3-4, 43, bears 46, nickle, 335, 246 I don't care. We don't have much defensively interms of talent and the most important part, the defensive line we have 0 of. The scheme is the least of my concerns.
How's that for math lol
246 is a great defense if you can get away with it. :thumbsup:
I'm intrigued as to which scheme should be run when you have no competent pass rushers.
Quote:I'm intrigued as to which scheme should be run when you have no competent pass rushers.
This.
There is no scheme that is going to save you when a well-over-the-hill Clemons and a flailing,windmilling Andre Branch are your "edge threats."
And don't tell me they didn't adjust the scheme. They tried a number of different 3rd down packages, four or five different ways of sending the nickel or corner on a blitz, and they mixed up the guys in the middle quite a bit too trying to find someone that could disrupt remotely like Marks. They even kicked Odrick inside at times.
If there was any real opportunity for Gus to intervene in a "square peg/round hole" situation it would have been putting the kibosh on Babich's overuse of soft zones. (he did eventually) But - ironically - it seemed that those zone coverages were actually Babich's answer to having square pegs - (one good corner, one young ascending corner that's better at nickel, and a dumpster fire at free safety.) His idea didn't work and late season adjustments barely helped because no one's gonna cover Hopkins, Cooks, and Julio when their QB has 4 or 5 seconds to find them.
Why don't 1 plus 1 equal 2.
Quote:This.
There is no scheme that is going to save you when a well-over-the-hill Clemons and a flailing,windmilling Andre Branch are your "edge threats."
And don't tell me they didn't adjust the scheme. They tried a number of different 3rd down packages, four or five different ways of sending the nickel or corner on a blitz, and they mixed up the guys in the middle quite a bit too trying to find someone that could disrupt remotely like Marks. They even kicked Odrick inside at times.
If there was any real opportunity for Gus to intervene in a "square peg/round hole" situation it would have been putting the kibosh on Babich's overuse of soft zones. (he did eventually) But - ironically - it seemed that those zone coverages were actually Babich's answer to having square pegs - (one good corner, one young ascending corner that's better at nickel, and a dumpster fire at free safety.) His idea didn't work and late season adjustments barely helped because no one's gonna cover Hopkins, Cooks, and Julio when their QB has 4 or 5 seconds to find them.
Not having any good pass rushers is a dilemma, that's for sure. You and 'iapetus ' are right... without competent pass rushers, no defensive scheme is going to bring good results. So I'm thinking that there is necessarily a 'priority of order' when it comes to addressing the defensive issues. First, we have to get some more decent players on defense, no matter what type scheme we run. If this need is successfully addressed in the off season, then the type scheme should be reconsidered. Dave has said that finding a top end FS is as hard as finding a franchise quarterback. For the defensive scheme that Gus has installed here to work, a top end FS is mandatory.
Gus did throw in some different looks on third down situations... and mostly they failed. But those were more like 'desperation strategies' and not the norm.
Quote:Exactly, the Jags don't have the guys to play the scheme they are trying to force and by the time the figure it out the league will have moved on.
stop... no not exactly.
The scheme doesn't matter is the point.
The players do.
Call the positions whatever you want. We got 11 dudes on D, and only about 2 of them have star quality.
Period.
Quote:
I'm not saying the Jags have great players, but the ones they do have don't seem to be a good fit for the scheme they've been running for 3 years now and the NFL is a copycat league that evolves quickly. It's past time to move on to something else.
But we actually played the scheme fairly well the year prior. Were held back by offense .
This past season quite the opposite.
Carry on though. You're right, we're all wrong.
Gus is turrible.
Cover 3 is turrible.
Leo's and Elephants are dumb.
The players are great and wasting their careers under this inept coach staff.
Quote:But we actually played the scheme fairly well the year prior. Were held back by offense .
This past season quite the opposite.
Carry on though. You're right, we're all wrong.
Gus is turrible.
Cover 3 is turrible.
Leo's and Elephants are dumb.
The players are great and wasting their careers under this inept coach staff.
Did you even read what I said? I mean, you quoted it for crying out loud, do the words "I'm not saying the Jags have great players" mean I'm saying "the Jags have great players" in your brain?
Quote:stop... no not exactly.
The scheme doesn't matter is the point.
The players do.
Call the positions whatever you want. We got 11 dudes on D, and only about 2 of them have star quality.
Period.
The scheme matters if the guys you have are terrible running it but would be average in a different one. But no, coaches and schemes don't matter so it doesn't matter who rolls the ball out there.
Quote:Did you even read what I said? I mean, you quoted it for crying out loud, do the words "I'm not saying the Jags have great players" mean I'm saying "the Jags have great players" in your brain?
Did you read what I said? You quoted it....
The scheme didn't seem to be an issue when Clemons got 8 sacks, and Marks got 8 sacks, and we were top 5 in sacks.
So... when the injuries happened and the play of people like Clemons and Branch were nil, the scheme is suddenly bad?
So our average players would be better players in a Tampa 2 Cover scheme?
Or maybe we have really good players for a 3-3-5 and the coaches are just too stupid to run the right scheme.
Dang... they really should hire you.
Quote:stop... no not exactly.
The scheme doesn't matter is the point.
The players do.
Call the positions whatever you want. We got 11 dudes on D, and only about 2 of them have star quality.
Period.
I tend to agree. However there are examples of good players performing at significantly lower levels in different schemes. For instance, Mario Williams this year.
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