03-13-2017, 04:20 PM
03-13-2017, 04:32 PM
Quote:Allen was 6'3" 286. He's not really a candidate to replicate anything Poe would have offered.Versatility for the line generally, though in a different way from Poe.
Poe could have given us a true dominant NT, and would have given us the ability to line up in a pseudo 3-4/3-3-5 nickel. With him, we could have also lined up in a big 4-3, or a smaller 4-3, and given us rotation/depth.
Allen is not a NT, but could rush from inside and outside and increase the depth and rotation.
Poe would be better for run defense and formation versatility.
Allen would give us depth and inside/outside versatility.
03-13-2017, 05:04 PM
Quote:I don't know about the only acceptable answer, but trading down 2-3 spots and picking up an extra 3rd would be really good.
I wouldn't mind both of New Orleans' first rounders this year, or even their first 1st rounder and 2nd round pick.
I think they now have two third round picks after the Cooks trade. I would gladly take one of them off their hands, too.
I want a first rounder in 2018, in case we might need to draft a QB.
03-13-2017, 05:07 PM
Here's a top 10 (I couldn't manange a top-32) and let's assume Garrett is definitely off the board - because he will be.
Fournette - still think he makes the biggest difference to this team
Thomas - ok, I'm on the bandwagon too now!
Allen - I think his arthritis is a long-term issue and is over blown
Adams - we signed Church, but he looks a pretty awesome player
Howard - best available player in position of need
Hooker - last of the really special players and might start sitting behind Gipson, but will help with our lack of turnovers
Lamp - OL needs help
Ramczyk - OL needs help
Bolles - OL needs help
McCaffrey - a kick returner and could be valuable option on offense
I've left out the CBs because I think we are set there, with the signing of Bouye and we certainly don't need to spend a first round pick on a backup. And I left out the second tier of pass rushers because I don't think any of them would improve what we already have.
One more note - Mixon should be in this top ten. But he isn't on my list. I think we've been over that argument though, so I will leave it there.
Fournette - still think he makes the biggest difference to this team
Thomas - ok, I'm on the bandwagon too now!
Allen - I think his arthritis is a long-term issue and is over blown
Adams - we signed Church, but he looks a pretty awesome player
Howard - best available player in position of need
Hooker - last of the really special players and might start sitting behind Gipson, but will help with our lack of turnovers
Lamp - OL needs help
Ramczyk - OL needs help
Bolles - OL needs help
McCaffrey - a kick returner and could be valuable option on offense
I've left out the CBs because I think we are set there, with the signing of Bouye and we certainly don't need to spend a first round pick on a backup. And I left out the second tier of pass rushers because I don't think any of them would improve what we already have.
One more note - Mixon should be in this top ten. But he isn't on my list. I think we've been over that argument though, so I will leave it there.
03-13-2017, 05:20 PM
Quote:I want a first rounder in 2018, in case we might need to draft a QB.I think everyone would be down for that, including Caldwell and Coughlin. Problem is which team are you planning on giving us that and for which player? Seems pretty hard to pull off.
03-13-2017, 05:22 PM
This is hard
1) Thomas- Just don't think you can pass him if he's there
2) Lattimore - Sure we signed Bouye, but with the way the NFL is now you need 3 starting cornerbacks, Lattimore would gives us one of the best young groups of cornerbacks ever assembled and also would you let you potentially trade Bouye or let him walk down the line fairly easily.
3) Hooker- Not my favorite pick but he does seem like a pretty special talent. Wouldn't really be to happy if the chips fell that way but unless we can trade down I'd rather take a special talent like Hooker over a lesser talent like Allen perhaps.
After that I really don't know who. I mean i guess Howard would have to be an option, but I really dont rate him as high as most and a TE at #4 is kind of bananas. This would also be a crazy move but I wouldn't hate Lamp at #4. I mean if you think he can be an all pro type guard, step in day 1 as a rookie and play well, wouldn't it make more sense to pick that guy instead of taking a lesser talent simply because theres nobody else?
Fournette I'm in two minds about. On one hand I can absolutely see him putting the fear of god into the defense, helping out Bortles and giving us a top class talent at running back for the first time since MJD. Buuuuut on the other hand I absolutely hate taking a running back #4 and think Fournette has lots of ??? as a player in the NFL and I'm not even sure he's the best in the class.
1) Thomas- Just don't think you can pass him if he's there
2) Lattimore - Sure we signed Bouye, but with the way the NFL is now you need 3 starting cornerbacks, Lattimore would gives us one of the best young groups of cornerbacks ever assembled and also would you let you potentially trade Bouye or let him walk down the line fairly easily.
3) Hooker- Not my favorite pick but he does seem like a pretty special talent. Wouldn't really be to happy if the chips fell that way but unless we can trade down I'd rather take a special talent like Hooker over a lesser talent like Allen perhaps.
After that I really don't know who. I mean i guess Howard would have to be an option, but I really dont rate him as high as most and a TE at #4 is kind of bananas. This would also be a crazy move but I wouldn't hate Lamp at #4. I mean if you think he can be an all pro type guard, step in day 1 as a rookie and play well, wouldn't it make more sense to pick that guy instead of taking a lesser talent simply because theres nobody else?
Fournette I'm in two minds about. On one hand I can absolutely see him putting the fear of god into the defense, helping out Bortles and giving us a top class talent at running back for the first time since MJD. Buuuuut on the other hand I absolutely hate taking a running back #4 and think Fournette has lots of ??? as a player in the NFL and I'm not even sure he's the best in the class.
03-13-2017, 05:25 PM
Quote:I think everyone would be down for that, including Caldwell and Coughlin. Problem is which team are you planning on giving us that and for which player? Seems pretty hard to pull off.
I fully believe there will be several players on the board at #4 that teams would be willing to trade up for. Sometimes teams just fall in love with a player for whatever reason and they have to have them.
03-13-2017, 06:03 PM
To me, this is the least talented top end of the draft in my lifetime. This list wasn't easy.
1. Solomon Thomas - I don't think he will be elite, I do think he'll provide 7-9 sacks a year.
2. Reuben Foster - The best defender in this class. This guy will be a starter at ILB for the next decade.
3. Jonathan Allen - See Thomas but without as many sacks. I like his versatility as he can be moved up and down the line.
4. Marshon Lattimore - The nickel corner is essentially a starter these days. A team can't have too many solid guys at this position.
5. Malik Hooker - I wouldn't normally take a safety this high, but this draft sucks as far as top 10 goes. I struggle to find someone else I'd take above him.
6. - Derek Barnett - like all the other pass rushers, I don't think he'll ever be elite. I do think he can average 7-9 a year.
7. O.J. Howard - He's exactly the kind of TE Coughlin craves. I love that he can do it all which makes the offense less predictable.
Howard and Foster are the only players on this list I think will be pro bowlers.
1. Solomon Thomas - I don't think he will be elite, I do think he'll provide 7-9 sacks a year.
2. Reuben Foster - The best defender in this class. This guy will be a starter at ILB for the next decade.
3. Jonathan Allen - See Thomas but without as many sacks. I like his versatility as he can be moved up and down the line.
4. Marshon Lattimore - The nickel corner is essentially a starter these days. A team can't have too many solid guys at this position.
5. Malik Hooker - I wouldn't normally take a safety this high, but this draft sucks as far as top 10 goes. I struggle to find someone else I'd take above him.
6. - Derek Barnett - like all the other pass rushers, I don't think he'll ever be elite. I do think he can average 7-9 a year.
7. O.J. Howard - He's exactly the kind of TE Coughlin craves. I love that he can do it all which makes the offense less predictable.
Howard and Foster are the only players on this list I think will be pro bowlers.
03-13-2017, 07:34 PM
Quote:To me, this is the least talented top end of the draft in my lifetime. This list wasn't easy.
So you are three years old? J/K. But seriously you think the top of the 2013 draft (Fisher, Joeckel, Jprdan, Johnson, Ansah, Mingo, Cooper) was better??!?
Quote:I think Thomas, Allen and Barnett will all be better than Dion Jordan (I hated that guy, more than KY hates the idea of RB at 4).
1. Solomon Thomas - I don't think he will be elite, I do think he'll provide 7-9 sacks a year.
2. Reuben Foster - The best defender in this class. This guy will be a starter at ILB for the next decade.
3. Jonathan Allen - See Thomas but without as many sacks. I like his versatility as he can be moved up and down the line.
4. Marshon Lattimore - The nickel corner is essentially a starter these days. A team can't have too many solid guys at this position.
5. Malik Hooker - I wouldn't normally take a safety this high, but this draft sucks as far as top 10 goes. I struggle to find someone else I'd take above him.
6. - Derek Barnett - like all the other pass rushers, I don't think he'll ever be elite. I do think he can average 7-9 a year.
7. O.J. Howard - He's exactly the kind of TE Coughlin craves. I love that he can do it all which makes the offense less predictable.
Howard and Foster are the only players on this list I think will be pro bowlers.
03-13-2017, 08:00 PM
Quote:So you are three years old? J/K. But seriously you think the top of the 2013 draft (Fisher, Joeckel, Jprdan, Johnson, Ansah, Mingo, Cooper) was better??!?
I think Thomas, Allen and Barnett will all be better than Dion Jordan (I hated that guy, more than KY hates the idea of RB at 4).
I'm talking about heading into the draft. I agree, it will be hard for any group to beat the horror show that was 2013. I'm just not thrilled with this draft at all. Hopefully we get lucky.
03-13-2017, 08:21 PM
Quote:I'm talking about heading into the draft. I agree, it will be hard for any group to beat the horror show that was 2013. I'm just not thrilled with this draft at all. Hopefully we get lucky.Well...I can kinda see the reason to be less than enthusiastic.
In most drafts, there is a stud LT or two in the top 5.
There is none here.
In most drafts, there is a stud DE or two in the top 5.
There is only one, Garrett. Thomas is a heckuva player, but many see him as a tweener. Not the DE/OLB tweener, but the DE/DT tweener.
In many of the great drafts, there is a stud QB or two at the top that pushes other positional players down. Just last year, we were the beneficiaries of Goff and Wentz getting inflated grades, allowing Ramsey to fall to us. This year, it's a question whether that will happen.
I think there is a lot of talent at the top of this year's draft. Just not at most of the marquee positions of QB, T and DE.
03-13-2017, 08:25 PM
Quote:If this, then that, blah blah blah.
Instead of laying out every conceivable scenario, why not just take a list of the top picks, and rank them in order of your preference for the Jaguars at pick #4? Or if we trade down a little.
In other words, when it's our turn, you would take the top remaining player from this list.
Here's mine:
Myles Garrett - DE, Texas A&M
Solomon Thomas - DE, Stanford
Jonathan Allen - DT, Alabama
Marshon Lattimore - CB, Ohio State
Leonard Fournette - RB, LSU
Malik Hooker - S, Ohio State
Jamal Adams - S, LSU
Derek Barnett - DE, Tennessee
Forrest Lamp - G, Western Kentucky
Ryan Ramczyk - OT, Wisconsin
In other words, if Garrett, Thomas, and Allen are all taken, I would take Lattimore over Fournette. I like the idea of having he best coverage in the league. I'm not quite as much in love with Fournette as some other people. But I would still take him over the two safeties.
And if we trade down, for example, then I take the highest remaining player on my list as I have ranked them above.
I'm good with your short list, although I'll put Fournette over Lattimore and his hammy issues.
03-13-2017, 08:45 PM
Here's my list:
Garrett
Thomas
Adams
Hooker
Lattimore
Howard
Garrett
Thomas
Adams
Hooker
Lattimore
Howard
03-13-2017, 08:59 PM
1. Fournette- Worth the risk.
2. Allen- Overblown talk about arthritis.
3. Thomas- High motor. Good for 8-10 sacks.
Of course, Garrett won't be there. If trade back from 6-10 and none of above on the board:
1. Barnett
2. Cook
3. Hooker
4. Howard
2. Allen- Overblown talk about arthritis.
3. Thomas- High motor. Good for 8-10 sacks.
Of course, Garrett won't be there. If trade back from 6-10 and none of above on the board:
1. Barnett
2. Cook
3. Hooker
4. Howard
03-14-2017, 04:57 AM
Foster
Fournette
Thomas
Adams
Hooker
Allen
Fournette
Thomas
Adams
Hooker
Allen
03-14-2017, 05:09 AM
Garrett
Thomas
Fournette
Adams/Hooker tie
Want a tackling machine that is solid in coverage? Adams
Want a turnover machine?
Hooker
Thomas
Fournette
Adams/Hooker tie
Want a tackling machine that is solid in coverage? Adams
Want a turnover machine?
Hooker
03-14-2017, 07:11 AM
I don't mean to be a nag, but my point with this thread was to take out all of the "if this, then that."
If you simply make a list of your top 10 or 15 players, in order of your preference for the Jags, and say, whether we trade up, or trade down, or stay the same, I would take the top remaining player on this list, then it takes care of every hypothetical.
For example, you could say, if we trade up to #1, I would take Myles Garrett, and if we trade up to # 2, and if Myles Garrett is gone, I would take Solomon Thomas, or, you could do as I suggest, and simply put make a list that goes like this:
Garrett
Thomas
Allen
Just make a list! A list of your top 10 or 15 picks in order of your preference. Then you don't have to say, "I prefer Thomas over Allen." And you don't have to say, if this guy is gone, I would take this guy, or if I trade down, I would like one of these guys. We can see all of that, because you have listed your choices in sequence.
And I know a lot of you guys don't get this, because you failed to put Myles Garrett on your list!
If you simply make a list of your top 10 or 15 players, in order of your preference for the Jags, and say, whether we trade up, or trade down, or stay the same, I would take the top remaining player on this list, then it takes care of every hypothetical.
For example, you could say, if we trade up to #1, I would take Myles Garrett, and if we trade up to # 2, and if Myles Garrett is gone, I would take Solomon Thomas, or, you could do as I suggest, and simply put make a list that goes like this:
Garrett
Thomas
Allen
Just make a list! A list of your top 10 or 15 picks in order of your preference. Then you don't have to say, "I prefer Thomas over Allen." And you don't have to say, if this guy is gone, I would take this guy, or if I trade down, I would like one of these guys. We can see all of that, because you have listed your choices in sequence.
And I know a lot of you guys don't get this, because you failed to put Myles Garrett on your list!
03-14-2017, 07:12 AM
1. Garrett
2.Thomas
3.Fournette
4.Allen
5. Hooker
6.McDowell
7.Lattimore
8. Barnett
9.Tabor
10. Cook
2.Thomas
3.Fournette
4.Allen
5. Hooker
6.McDowell
7.Lattimore
8. Barnett
9.Tabor
10. Cook
03-14-2017, 07:53 AM
Garrett
Thomas
Howard (moving up fast......HUGE mismatch.....would help Bortles the most along with OL help in later rounds)
Hooker
Allen
Barnett
Thomas
Howard (moving up fast......HUGE mismatch.....would help Bortles the most along with OL help in later rounds)
Hooker
Allen
Barnett
03-14-2017, 08:41 AM
Quote:This is hardOJ Howard is a big question mark for me. He's a dynamic tight end and would add a different layer to our offense.
1) Thomas- Just don't think you can pass him if he's there
2) Lattimore - Sure we signed Bouye, but with the way the NFL is now you need 3 starting cornerbacks, Lattimore would gives us one of the best young groups of cornerbacks ever assembled and also would you let you potentially trade Bouye or let him walk down the line fairly easily.
3) Hooker- Not my favorite pick but he does seem like a pretty special talent. Wouldn't really be to happy if the chips fell that way but unless we can trade down I'd rather take a special talent like Hooker over a lesser talent like Allen perhaps.
After that I really don't know who. I mean i guess Howard would have to be an option, but I really dont rate him as high as most and a TE at #4 is kind of bananas. This would also be a crazy move but I wouldn't hate Lamp at #4. I mean if you think he can be an all pro type guard, step in day 1 as a rookie and play well, wouldn't it make more sense to pick that guy instead of taking a lesser talent simply because theres nobody else?
Fournette I'm in two minds about. On one hand I can absolutely see him putting the fear of god into the defense, helping out Bortles and giving us a top class talent at running back for the first time since MJD. Buuuuut on the other hand I absolutely hate taking a running back #4 and think Fournette has lots of ??? as a player in the NFL and I'm not even sure he's the best in the class.
4 isn't too high for him based on talent, it's just high based on projected value because of the position he plays and where teams normally do start to draft those guys.
I won't be mad at all if we wind up taking him at 4, even if everyone tries to crap on the pick.
It comes down to who the first three guys off the board are, I guess.