Quote:If you ask Cleveland fans and sportwriters, they'd tell you that Mack had a very disappointing season. I think there's a lot of "we'd be all set!" thinking here that is looking at his <2014 performance.
Mack will be too expensive and likely not live up to that contract. I would rather them NOT sign him. I would rather they use say 10-15 million to sign say 8 average journeyman C, G, and T who may fit this scheme to prove it to me contracts of 1 or 2 year contracts that have incentives based on starts. That may seem like a lot of players/money, but then by using competition you potentially get the best. Then you also could have good depth.
Quote:I didn't see that and frankly I would be pretty disappointed if they moved Linder to center.
Agreed. Linder is one of the best guards we've had in a long time. Leave him be.
Caldwell saying Cann has been the best rookie G he's seem is notable considering how good Linder is
The O-line does need depth. Sam young should be bagging groceries. Im not sure about Luke. My previous opinion was that he was always good for one bad snap a game but usually did well thereafter. The #2 pick in the draft + starting LT being inconsistent like that however is rough. Caldwell literally can't be efficient now. It would be better if Luke was straight up a bust but instead hes...average.. "Oh just cut the man and move on" and replace him with who? A Vet FA who will command a much larger paycheck who doesn't know the system? Or a rookie LT in the 2nd or 3rd who also needs a year or two to "Get it". Sorry, Our first round pick should be exclusively a defensive pick. DT, DE, or FS/SS
The position isn't bad enough to warrant another 1st round pick or screwing up your salary cap numbers on an aging vet. Its a puzzle that everyone has different opinions to solve.
Edit: Cann and Linder give me so much hope.
Quote:Luke Cann Mack Linder Parnell
That's your starting line next year.
You're probably right...
If there was a way to upgrade LT then we could have one of the better lines in the league.
Wiz wasn't bad, but very average. He did significantly improve the line, however, with his veteran line calls. The team was lost under Bowanko and a majority of the pressures that year were busted assignments and miscommunication. It was significantly, significantly cleaned up this season.
With Mack you get the same veteran line calls and, probably, at worst, above average play and potentially elite level play.
Quote:
<div style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Jacksonville Jaguars @Jaguars 2m2 minutes ago
<p style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">"I think he can be." - Caldwell on if Joeckel is the answer at left tackle.
</div>
This isn't exactly a standing ovation. It's more like, "I think he can be as depth in case our starter goes down."
What I found a little surprising is his purposely not mentioning Wiz as a possibility at Center knowing how slim the position is in free agency. Instead he mentioned Bowanko, Cann and Linder as possibilities. Bowanko started last year and nearly won the job this year, but he's rather tall for a Center which can allow for DTs to gain leverage by getting underneath him.
Interestingly, Caldwell mentioned that now that they're a few years in, he's not necessarily opposed to sign a free agent in his early 30s. This makes me wonder if just perhaps he might be targeting Cards C Lyle Sendlein. ,,,or for that matter, the Raiders Donald Penn at LT.
Quote:He didn't mention LJ or Wis, thats very telling. I expect both of those guys to be replaced next year, rightfully so.
Center Wis had those bad snaps but he wasn't horrible this year, I would expect that he would return to compete in the offseason... Luke on the other hand is simply horrible.
Quote:Center Wis had those bad snaps but he wasn't horrible this year, I would expect that he would return to compete in the offseason... Luke on the other hand is simply horrible.
I agree with this. On WIz, I'm thinking we probably should retain him largely because of the lack of options in free agency, and I'd have him work on those shotgun snaps this offseason. That said, Caldwell not mentioning him could be a sign that he's ready to move on, and Wiz was never all that dominating in the run game. He was spot on in pass protection tho helping to give Bortles the time he needs for his deep pass, and he was an ace as far as diagnosing defenses and calling the plays. Sure it's possible to find an upgrade, but there's no guarantee there.
If we were to lose Wiz, we're down to only a few options...
1. Start Bowanko, Cann or LInder. However, starting Cann or Linder at Center would mean Shatley or Beadles at G.
2. Sign a UFA, but aside from backups with virtually no playing time, the only starters hitting free agency are the Cards Center and the Rams Center. That said, the Cards Center is old and may be nearing retirement, and the Rams Center started this year for the first time.Of course Mack might opt out and become a free agent, but signing him would mean paying him something like $10 mil per year.
3. Draft a Center, although to expect an immediate starter we're probably talking about round two which is a prime spot where we'd have to pass up other talent to do so.
Now with Luke there are a few more options with at least four FA starters who would represent an upgrade. I also like the idea of Joekel sticking around for depth because lack of depth at LT can kill a season should the starter go down, and the Jaguars have personally witnessed as much a few times in their history.
So...the smokescreens beginith
Cann or Linder playing C is interesting because there are WAY more guard options in free agency than center. Center is basically Mack, and that's only if he opts out.
Not seeing how joeckel suddenly had a "solid" or decent year after all we've done all season is crucify him for constant sacks and pressure.
He has been beaten all season multiple times per game. I cant count how many times Blake had to rush throws that could have been huge completions. Even if its not sacks he has consistently been beaten for pressures and big hits on blake all season.
Joeckel imo needs to be replaced in the offseason with a veteran LT.
Quote:Joeckel imo needs to be replaced in the offseason with a veteran LT.
The only vet really worth a damn out there right now is Cordy Glenn. There's Okung too, but he's not that great and has an injury history.
I don't think we can "move on" from Joeckel that easy. There isn't any top graded tackles in this year's draft. And this team can't afford to reach on an OT when it has more pressing issues to address on defense this off-season. We'll see. I haven't looked at the market yet. Maybe Caldwell can find a stop-gap guy that does enough to get us by in 2016. I still think we need to address the run blocking more and get the ground game going more consistently. It's easy to tee off on our lineman and QB when they throw it more often than not. We need balance to put it simply.
I doubt they sign someone with the idea of straight up starting at LT, competition at that position is a must though.
Center I see could see them bringing in a vet starter or resigning Wiz and letting him compete with Bowanko again.
Bottom line I doubt they give more than one big contract out to the oline in free agency.
Makes me wonder if he means move one of them over and make a play for Kelechi Osemele. A line with Osemele/Cann/Linder/Parnell is pretty nasty.
Quote:Cann or Linder playing C is interesting because there are WAY more guard options in free agency than center. Center is basically Mack, and that's only if he opts out.
Quote:Not seeing how joeckel suddenly had a "solid" or decent year after all we've done all season is crucify him for constant sacks and pressure.
He has been beaten all season multiple times per game. I cant count how many times Blake had to rush throws that could have been huge completions. Even if its not sacks he has consistently been beaten for pressures and big hits on blake all season.
Joeckel imo needs to be replaced in the offseason with a veteran LT.
I don't know about all that... He had a terrible game against Houston in week 17... But I can't recall any other really terrible performances.
Yes, he made a mistake here or there in some games, but I think overall he played very OK. Meaning that he was not a liability on the O-Line as some may think.
I think at this point, with the other bigger pressing needs (Center and LG along with the entire defensive line and FS, and possibly another LB...) Luke is in good shape for another year...
Quote:I don't know about all that... He had a terrible game against Houston in week 17... But I can't recall any other really terrible performances.
Yes, he made a mistake here or there in some games, but I think overall he played very OK. Meaning that he was not a liability on the O-Line as some may think.
I think at this point, with the other bigger pressing needs (Center and LG along with the entire defensive line and FS, and possibly another LB...) Luke is in good shape for another year...
Nope for the most part, especially early in the season, Beadles was whiffing a lot.
He's on the left side, so people see pressure from there and assume they know what they are watching.
But if you look closely... Beadles was the culprit more often than not.
That being said, Joker gives up his fair share of pressures (As did Parnell).... but hadn't whiffed bad until facing Watt at the end of the season.
Quote:I don't know about all that... He had a terrible game against Houston in week 17... But I can't recall any other really terrible performances.
Yes, he made a mistake here or there in some games, but I think overall he played very OK. Meaning that he was not a liability on the O-Line as some may think.
I think at this point, with the other bigger pressing needs (Center and LG along with the entire defensive line and FS, and possibly another LB...) Luke is in good shape for another year...
I think many fans suffer from familiarity syndrome - we see a guy screw up and that becomes our image.
I certainly see other left tackles give up sacks all the time. Were do we think all the league's sacks come from - they're not all from the right or center. With all the needs on defense I'd be really surprised and disappointed if they use any draft capital on left tackle, and from what's been stated here there is not much available through FA. Would any team give up on a LT who is better than Luke?
I think he gets another year to prove to Caldwell that he is or isn't an NFL starting left tackle.
Quote:Wiz wasn't bad, but very average. He did significantly improve the line, however, with his veteran line calls. The team was lost under Bowanko and a majority of the pressures that year were busted assignments and miscommunication. It was significantly, significantly cleaned up this season.
With Mack you get the same veteran line calls and, probably, at worst, above average play and potentially elite level play.
I think it was better than with Bowanko, but I was far from impressed with our blitz pickup this season. In fairness to Luke, he was a rookie C with a rookie RG, Luke and Beadles on the left, and a turnstile at RT. With a rookie QB.
Wiz and this year's offense certainly has the advantage from sheer experience. IMO, him and Beadles are big reasons why we can't run short yardage/goal line. He's adequate and can get the job done, especially if we upgrade the G spots by the return of LInder and continued development by Cann. But I wouldn't certainly oppose finding his replacement either.