Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

His lack of power does bother me.  You've spent several years now in an NFL strength program along with several in a high level college strength program and you still lack the power to do your job?  That boggles my mind.

Quote:His lack of power does bother me.  You've spent several years now in an NFL strength program along with several in a high level college strength program and you still lack the power to do your job?  That boggles my mind.

I didn't think I would ever see a LT with less power than Mike Pearson.

 

Then I watched Joeckel yesterday.

 

Actually Joeckel was beaten with speed, power, and poor technique (appeared woefully off balance on last sack-as if he lunged).

 

I hate to say this because lord knows we need a ton of defensive help, but with Jaylon Smith's injury, our draft position, and the need for LT, I could see Ronnie Stanley as our pick at 5. 

 

Not that I dislike Stanley, mind you, just that the talent available, need, etc., would seem to dictate that choice.

Quote:I didn't think I would ever see a LT with less power than Mike Pearson.

 

Then I watched Joeckel yesterday.

 

Actually Joeckel was beaten with speed, power, and poor technique (appeared woefully off balance on last sack-as if he lunged).

 

I hate to say this because lord knows we need a ton of defensive help, but with Jaylon Smith's injury, our draft position, and the need for LT, I could see Ronnie Stanley as our pick at 5. 

 

Not that I dislike Stanley, mind you, just that the talent available, need, etc., would seem to dictate that choice.

 

It's perplexing to say the least.  The sack I remember from Watt on Joeckel's side, I thought Joeckel was actually in good position for a moment and he was going to be able to ride it out and push Watt either away or to the ground.

 

Nope.  Watt blows right by him.

 

I personally don't know enough about Stanley to offer much thought on him.

Quote:Just to clarify. 

 

 

Jj Watt only got one sack from the left. His other two were from the right, where he normally plays. 

 

It was Whitney Mercilus that got all 3 of his sacks from the left. 

 

That's not right.

 

Watt had the sack/fumble from the left too.

Quote:It's perplexing to say the least.  The sack I remember from Watt on Joeckel's side, I thought Joeckel was actually in good position for a moment and he was going to be able to ride it out and push Watt either away or to the ground.

 

Nope.  Watt blows right by him.

 

I personally don't know enough about Stanley to offer much thought on him.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/ronnie-stanley/

We need a big, physical OT that is a senior, juniors just don't have the experience imo.

Also find one that has protected his QB.

Should be able to find a tackle later since teams are avoiding them early

<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PFF'>Pro Football Focus ‏@PFF </a> <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PFF/status/684014324659142656' title="9:11 AM - 4 Jan 2016">3h3 hours ago</a>
<p class="" style="font-size:26px;color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Jaguars left tackle Luke Joeckel allowed just two sacks between Week 1 and 16. In Week 17 he allowed five.

Quote:http://draftbreakdown.com/players/ronnie-stanley/

 

I still think Joeckel is a serviceable LT.  He had a bad game yesterday but that shouldn't cloud judgement on him having an OK overall year.  LT play as a whole is down league wide.

 

I looked at the Clemson game for Stanley and came away unimpressed.  I was more impressed by Shaq Lawson, his opponent for most of the snaps.

Quote:Should be able to find a tackle later since teams are avoiding them early

I don't understand this.

 

In 2015, two tackles Brandon Scherff and Ereck Flowers, went in the top ten, Sherff was 5th overall.

 

In 2014, three tackles were taken in the first 11 picks. 

 

• Greg Robinson was selected by the Rams 2nd overall
  
• Jake Matthews was selected by Atlanta 6th overall
  
• Taylor Lewan was selcted by the tacks 11th overall
  

Of course in 2013, tackles were the first two picks.

 

2012, Matt Kalil went to the Vikings 4th overall.

 

2011, Tyron Smith was taken 9th.

 

In my years of watching football and the draft, it seems one of the safest bets to happen is a tackle being selected in the top ten.  I don't see that changing.

Quote:Luke did improve, but he's still far from a good LT. I mentioned awhile back in one of the threads, I think speed rushers gives him more fits than one-dimensional "power" guys. Mercillus has owned him the past two match-ups.

 

The problem is...we're really not at a position to take another LT. A dominant LT might be tough to pass up (I haven't watched much of Tunsil yet, as tackle hasn't been my focus), but despite the 8 sacks given today...I still view the defense as the bigger issue. Besides...we can't go offense YET again when we've invested very little defensively.

 

I agreed until yesterday.  A performance of that quality is a sure fire way to get your QB fast tracked to IR year in and year out.  We need our first franchise QB in 15 years to not have his career go that way.

 

I still want most picks to go to defense, but they need to find tackle help in FA or the draft.

Quote:Still can't believe Dave didn't take a chance on him with the late round picks and call his bluff. 

 

Agreed.

Bullseye,  while I agree with you that it's best to secure the services of a LT early in a draft,  it seems like there have been many more disappointments at that position in the last decade + or so than compared to what was the case in the previous century.   Robert Gallery was a huge disappointment with pick # 2 back in 2004 and several others have followed him in that category since. 

Quote:Bullseye,  while I agree with you that it's best to secure the services of a LT early in a draft,  it seems like there have been many more disappointments at that position in the last decade + or so than compared to what was the case in the previous century.   Robert Gallery was a huge disappointment with pick # 2 back in 2004 and several others have followed him in that category since. 

I agree completely.

 

Some argue the proliferation of the spread offenses has made it more difficult for college tackles to transition to the NFL.

 

But whatever the reason, the "golden age" of left tackles that ushered in the likes of Boselli, Ogden, Pace, Tra Thomas, Walter Jones seems long over.

Quote:I agree completely.

 

Some argue the proliferation of the spread offenses has made it more difficult for college tackles to transition to the NFL.

 

But whatever the reason, the "golden age" of left tackles that ushered in the likes of Boselli, Ogden, Pace, Tra Thomas, Walter Jones seems long over.

 

  Even back in the 1980's,   I recall the then NFC Central teams all having high quality LTs that were drafted early.   Gary Zimmermann,  Lomas Brown,  Jimbo Covert,  Paul Gruber,  and Ken Ruettgers weren't collectively in the class of the ' golden age' LTs you mentioned.   But all were clearly winning level players and in most cases multiple Pro Bowlers.  

 

  One thing I mentioned in another thread recently is I believe that less practice time in the off-season and less padded practices in the summer and regular season have hurt the quality of Offensive Line play in general, since the new CBA went into effect in 2011.

Quote:Boselli: "HIS FEET ARE GOOD. YOU CANT TEACH THAT."

 

Lageman: "If you don't think Joeckel is going to be a great player in this league, you just don't know football"

And where do most coaches come from? From mediocre or retired QB's and LB's who couldn't make first string and are now needing a second career. Remember these two players predictions the next time someone says trust the "Professionals", that the professionals know 1000 times more than any fan. It's nonsense. A lot of coaches are boneheads who went from stupid player to stupid scout to stupid special teams coach, kissing butt the whole way,and finally found a mentor, or married a coach's daughter and lucked into a couple decent seasons with a loaded team that Norm from Cheers couldn't screw up.

 

Suddenly they turn into a football genius? Not hardly. On the other hand there are men who have spent thousands of hours a year, for 50 years, watching every aspect of football, and in the gambling game of which player is going to turn out good, quite a lot of those non professionals on the couch can decide on a player as well or better than some dumb ex jock. Football is one of the few professions where there is no real college for it, no advanced university degree. It's a profession based upon making the right contacts and getting with the right mentor, then usually lucking into the right job, and within ten years some real morons go from dumb players to the respected top of their football profession. There is too much coach turnover, and GM turnover to believe otherwise. A lot of these professional football minds do not know anything special about the game that half the members of this board knew  a decade ago. I won't put myself in that category but I know there are bright minds here that could out coach Bradley and half his staff.

I'm wondering if the man has long term foot/leg issues.  This seems to be the year that he can hit a regimen to improve his deficiencies.  Back in the day they use to have M.Lewis help out for protection.  Heck I thought that was why we still had him on the team was blocking.

 

Just seems to me there are things we don't know about his lower body strength.  Being in the right position, not being jumpy at the start and having good hands are all skills that he seems to have already.

Quote:  Even back in the 1980's,   I recall the then NFC Central teams all having high quality LTs that were drafted early.   Gary Zimmermann,  Lomas Brown,  Jimbo Covert,  Paul Gruber,  and Ken Ruettgers weren't collectively in the class of the ' golden age' LTs you mentioned.   But all were clearly winning level players and in most cases multiple Pro Bowlers.  

 

  One thing I mentioned in another thread recently is I believe that less practice time in the off-season and less padded practices in the summer and regular season have hurt the quality of Offensive Line play in general, since the new CBA went into effect in 2011.

Outstanding post, D6.

 

Those were all good to great tackles drafted highly (though Zimmerman came from the USFL).

 

I think the new CBA has hurt the quality of play overall.  I think tackle is not exempt from that.

Quote:Outstanding post, D6.

 

Those were all good to great tackles drafted highly (though Zimmerman came from the USFL).

 

I think the new CBA has hurt the quality of play overall.  I think tackle is not exempt from that.

 

  Thanks,  Bullseye!

 

  You are correct regarding Gary Zimmermann.   If I now recall correctly,  he was projected as a very high 1st Round pick but chose to sign a USFL contract.  

 

 Agreed,  regarding the overall play being hurt by the new CBA.   The tackling in the NFL these days doesn't remind anyone of watching Joey Browner in his day.  

Quote:Outstanding post, D6.

 

Those were all good to great tackles drafted highly (though Zimmerman came from the USFL).

 

I think the new CBA has hurt the quality of play overall.  I think tackle is not exempt from that.

 

No doubt this CBA has hurt the quality of play.  They just don't get in the work during the week to hit those teaching moments.  They move the season to 18 games and it is going to really trash the quality of play further.