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Dane Brugler‏Verified account @dpbrugler

Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes

59 - Webb

56 - Kizer

55 - Trubisky, Evans

53 - Peterman, Kaaya

49 - Watson

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<div>Ian Wharton‏Verified account @NFLFilmStudy

That's alarming for Watson considering only Tyrod has found any success in the NFL since 2008 with a velocity under 55 w/o injury in play

 

<div>Benjamin Allbright‏Verified account @AllbrightNFL

For combine velocity measurement for QBs remember this. Over 55 mph doesnt guarantee success, but under it pretty much guarantees failure

<div>Benjamin Allbright‏Verified account @AllbrightNFL

If you choose to ignore QB velocity, not your thing, that's fine. Teams take it VERY seriously.

 


 

 

2 MPH on a 20 yard pass = 3 feet of difference which is obviously big in NFL window measurements. Watson being 6 MPH under the threshold is a big deal. That's a lot of history that Watson needs to buck to even become a serviceable QB. 

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The windows in the pros get smaller, you need that extra velocity to complete anything. 49 is alarmingly weak. 

 

Think it will drop his draft stock? 

Quote:The windows in the pros get smaller, you need that extra velocity to complete anything. 49 is alarmingly weak. 

 

Think it will drop his draft stock? 

For a lot of teams it absolutely will drop him. For every team? He better hope not. 

In the second it be a no brainer to draft him. 

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/dpbrugler'>Dane Brugler‏Verified account @dpbrugler</a>


Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes

59 - Webb

56 - Kizer

55 - Trubisky, Evans

53 - Peterman, Kaaya

49 - Watson

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy'>Ian Wharton‏Verified account @NFLFilmStudy</a>


That's alarming for Watson considering only Tyrod has found any success in the NFL since 2008 with a velocity under 55 w/o injury in play

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL'>Benjamin Allbright‏Verified account @AllbrightNFL</a>


For combine velocity measurement for QBs remember this. Over 55 mph doesnt guarantee success, but under it pretty much guarantees failure
<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL'>Benjamin Allbright‏Verified account @AllbrightNF</a>L


If you choose to ignore QB velocity, not your thing, that's fine. Teams take it VERY seriously.




2 MPH on a 20 yard pass = 3 feet of difference which is obviously big in NFL window measurements. Watson being 6 MPH under the threshold is a big deal. That's a lot of history that Watson needs to buck to even become a serviceable QB.

I tend to think these are dumb.


1) how are they measured? The combine drills are mostly anticipation throws other than the go routes. Is it just the top velocity recorded? Is it all measured on the exact same type of throw at the exact same time?


2) Watching Watson's its pretty clear he has the arm to make all the throws. One of the best and most accurate deep throwers in all of college football over the past two years.


3) Flacco and Cody Kessler both scored a 55, Kizer got a 56. You telling me Flacco and Kessler throw the ball at the same velocity ? Of course not.


Its interesting but I'd like to find out more about how they are actually measured and recorded. I don't think it should change anyone's analysis of Watson's game.


Tyrod Taylor scored a 50

Quote:Its interesting but I'd like to find out more about how they are actually measured and recorded. I don't think it should change anyone's analysis of Watson's game.


Tyrod Taylor scored a 50

1. I don't know but it's measured the same for everyone on the same routes so it's still apples to apples. Unless you're thinking that maybe Watson was loafing during the drills when he knows he's been clocked and that it does matter to teams. 

 

2. Best and most accurate deep ball has nothing to do with velocity. 

 

Like the tweet says it's fine if it's not your thing, but teams take it VERY seriously. 

 

And yes Tyrod is the one shining example of a sub 55 MPH QB "working out", but Tyrod was also throwing through a shoulder injury cause I guess very late/UDFA caliber draftees don't have the luxury of skipping the combine if they aren't 100%.

Quote:1. I don't know but it's measured the same for everyone on the same routes so it's still apples to apples. Unless you're thinking that maybe Watson was loafing during the drills when he knows he's been clocked and that it does matter to teams.


2. Best and most accurate deep ball has nothing to do with velocity.


Like the tweet says it's fine if it's not your thing, but teams take it VERY seriously.


And yes Tyrod is the one shining example of a sub 55 MPH QB "working out", but Tyrod was also throwing through a shoulder injury cause I guess very late/UDFA caliber draftees don't have the luxury of skipping the combine if they aren't 100%.

Really though I wonder how they do measure them. I know for some pro days these use chips in balls , think the combine is some kind of radar gun. Nah don't think he was loafing , just doesn't seem like too many guys were putting it all into the throws, mainly because, they didn't need to.


That's the point I'm making. The velocity wasn't an issue in college for him so I don't think seeing he threw low velocity at the combine would change my thoughts.


Also think you read the twitter bit wrong, I believe it was Dak who had the shoulder injury and threw a 54.

I'll die on Watson hill this year. Its too late to turn back now

Looking at the list since 2008 that threw under 52 MPH is terrifyingly bad 

 

Colt Brennen, Josh Johnson, Booty, Pat White, John Skelton, Ponder, Kellen Moore---this is a bad bunch. Tyrod is the lone exception here. 

 

I loved Kellen moore in college but everyone knew he didn't have an NFL arm, and he still threw harder than Watson. 

 

Add this to legitimate questions about his accuracy, coming out of a spread offense, injury history (1 torn acl already), it's a lot to take a chance on, even in the 2nd round. 

 

The only things I really like about him is seeing him rise to the challenge in the biggest games. He seemed to thrive under pressure and from everything I have gathered, he's a good guy. 

 

Count me out, even if hes there that the top of the 2nd, I dont want em. 

Quote:Really though I wonder how they do measure them. I know for some pro days these use chips in balls , think the combine is some kind of radar gun. Nah don't think he was loafing , just doesn't seem like too many guys were putting it all into the throws, mainly because, they didn't need to.


That's the point I'm making. The velocity wasn't an issue in college for him so I don't think seeing he threw low velocity at the combine would change my thoughts.


Also think you read the twitter bit wrong, I believe it was Dak who had the shoulder injury and threw a 54.

Oh yeah, it is a radar gun I know that. I don't know if it's max or average or at point of release or what though. 

 

I did see lack of velocity on the honey hole deep outs and seam busters so I'm not surprised it's low, but maybe surprised it was that low.

 

Yeah that tweet said Dak did, but other tweets I didn't add cause the post was getting too long said Dak and Tyrod were the two below 55 and they both threw with not 100% shoulders. 

So, he's the michael air jordan of qbs.

Quote:Oh yeah, it is a radar gun I know that. I don't know if it's max or average or at point of release or what though.


I did see lack of velocity on the honey hole deep outs and seam busters so I'm not surprised it's low, but maybe surprised it was that low.


Yeah that tweet said Dak did, but other tweets I didn't add cause the post was getting too long said Dak and Tyrod were the two below 55 and they both threw with not 100% shoulders.

A lot of people see a lot of different things with Watson. I think he has the arm to make every throw so the velocity stuff doesn't really bother me with him.

Most of the good QBs didn't throw or we don't have their speed


There are no good QBs over 56 other than Kirk Cousins.


Over 56= Huge red flag!! Too much velocity to be good.

Here's an interesting article on the subject: 

 

http://www.pass2win.com/ball-velocity-ex...er-qb.html

 

On an interesting side note, if you take a look at the list of QBs in the article, you'd think drafting a QB is a real chancey thing, with all the busts listed. 

 

Name, College, NFL Team – Ball Velocity in MPH
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State, Browns – 59
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada, 49ers - 59
Kirk Cousins, Michigan State, Redskins - 59
Zac Dysert, Miami (OH), Broncos - 59
Tyler Bray, Tennessee - 59

Ryan Mallett, Arkansas, Patriots - 58
Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi, Falcons - 58

Nick Foles, Arizona, Eagles - 57
Mark Sanchez, Southern Cal, Jets - 57
Josh Freeman, Kansas State, Free Agent - 57
Chase Daniels, Missouri, Chiefs 57
Chandler Harnish, Northern Illinois, Colts - 57

Andy Dalton, TCU, Bengals - 56
Cam Newton, Auburn, Panthers - 56
Colt McCoy, Texas, 49ers - 56 (recorded in a private workout with a radar gun & computer chip in the football)
Ryan Nassib, Syracuse, Giants – 56
Curtis Painter, Purdue, Giants - 56
Brad Sorensen, Southern Utah 56
Patrick Devlin, Delaware, Dolphins - 56

Joe Flacco, Delaware, Ravens - 55
Geno Smith, West Virginia, Jets - 55
Scott Tolzien, Wisconsin, Packers - 55
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin, Seahawks - 55
Casey Keenum, Houston, Texans - 55
Tyler Wilson, Arkansas, Chiefs - 55

Jake Locker, Washington, Titans - 54
EJ Manuel, Florida State, Bills - 54
Matthew Scott, Arizona 54

Landry Jones, Oklahoma, Steelers - 53
Chad Henne, Michigan, Jaguars - 53
Stephen McGee, Texas A & M 53

Graham Harrell, Texas Tech 52
Pat White, West Virginia 52
Kellen Moore, Boise State, Lions - 52
TJ Yates, North Carolina, Texans - 52
Michael Kafka, Northwestern 52
Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St. 52
Ryan Lindley, San Diego State, Cardinals - 52

Christian Ponder, Florida St, Vikings - 51
Colby Cameron, Louisiana Tech 51

Matt Flynn, LSU, Packers - 50
John Skelton, Fordham 50
Ricky Stanzi, Iowa 50
Tyrod Taylor, Va Tech, Ravens - 50

Michael Glennon, North Carolina State, Buccaneers - 49
Josh Johnson, San Diego, Bengals - 49

DID NOT THROW:
Matt Ryan, Boston College, Falcons - Did not throw
Robert Griffin III, Baylor, Redskins - Did not throw
Andrew Luck, Stanford, Colts - Did not throw
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma, Rams - Did not throw
Matt Stafford, Georgia, Lions - Did not throw
Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M, Dolphins - Did not throw
Brock Osweiler, Arizona State, Broncos - Did not throw
Tim Tebow, Florida, Free Agent - Did not throw
Sean Renfree, Duke – Did not throw
Matt Barkley, Southern Ca, Eagles - Did not throw
Greg McElroy, Alabama - Did not throw
Blaine Gabbert, Missouri, Jaguars - Did not throw

Blake and Garropolo both had a score of 56.

Well like it said above... throwing over doesn't guarantee success.

Throwing under pretty much makes it certain you won't succeed. 

Quote:Well like it said above... throwing over doesn't guarantee success.

Throwing under pretty much makes it certain you won't succeed. 

 

Yeah 49 seems super low. In the NFL you need to be able to throw the ball fast into tight windows. The higher the score the better, just have to use it right. 

Yes because Cody Kessler throws with the same velocity as Joe Flacco

What does the tape say?

Quote:Yes because Cody Kessler throws with the same velocity as Joe Flacco

This stat is a poop stat for numerous reasons.


The variables just aren't considered in their diagnosis of players.


I'm not big on Watson but I don't think this stat should count against him.


Like knarnn said, what's the tape say? Watch the tape and if you think it matches up with this low score and would show in the NFL, then don't draft him.