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Quote:No I don't believe government exist to protect culture. And there is no ground for the federal government to have any say on private unions between consenting adults. Could make a case about states having that authority but I'd still consider that an overrreach.

 

Conservatives do. In droves.

Quote:1 refusing to accept same sex marriage on the grounds of traditional marriage, either your for less government or your not can't pick when to have big brother interference.


2 patriot act


3 narcotic prohibition for the same reasons as number 1.

 

The problem is with civil marriage itself.  Religious marriage has become meaningless.

People do not realize that they are not marrying each other, they are marrying the State.  

This generally becomes much clearer during divorce. 

1. narcotic prohibition

2. military interventionism

3. REAL gender discrimination

Quote:Conservatives do. In droves.

 

It is a governments responsibility to protect it's nations culture. What is a nation without borders, language, and culture?

Quote:

Quote:Conservative policies in and of themseoves are fine for the most part. Two sides of a coin that can be argued for or against by whoever the more skilled debater or who can spin statistics to support their cause that the majority of people cannot possibly parse because they stay in their comfort bubble and can't tolerate being challenged. It's a wash IMO.


I actually only have two things about the conservative party I disagree vehemently with.

1. Constant war on someone somewhere always.


2. Keep your religion out of my government.

 

This is a conservative policy?  When did your president switch sides?

Quote:It is a governments responsibility to protect it's nations culture. What is a nation without borders, language, and culture?

What aspects of culture should government be "protecting"?

Quote:This is a conservative policy? When did your president switch sides?

Is it not advocated vocally, constantly by the right? I said I dont have much of a problem with the policies but gave examples of parts of the party I didn't like. I didn't call them policies. Warmongering isn't a policy.


I know it makes you feel icky and all but he's your president also.

Quote:What aspects of culture should government be "protecting"?

 

It is mostly subjective but generally agreed upon,

 

The American Dream achieved through hard work (not through illegal acquisition or welfare).

The Constitution.

The importance of assimilation.

The importance of small business.

The Protestant work ethic (doesn't have to be in the religious sense).

 

Just to name a few. Do you disagree with any of those?

Quote:Is it not advocated vocally, constantly by the right? I said I dont have much of a problem with the policies but gave examples of parts of the party I didn't like. I didn't call them policies. Warmongering isn't a policy.


I know it makes you feel icky and all but he's your president also.

Can you imagine if a liberal deigned to say "YOUR president" during the Bush era?

Quote:It is mostly subjective but generally agreed upon,


The American Dream achieved through hard work (not through illegal acquisition or welfare).

The Constitution.

The importance of assimilation.

The importance of small business.

The Protestant work ethic (doesn't have to be in the religious sense).


Just to name a few. Do you disagree with any of those?

I disagree with assimilation. That's a Borg thing. Our differences make us, as a country, better.


I also disagree with the work ethic concept. It's not the government's business whether someone chooses to work hard or hardly work, but it's also not (or shouldn't be) the government's obligation to provide for them if they won't provide for themselves.

Quote:Is it not advocated vocally, constantly by the right? I said I dont have much of a problem with the policies but gave examples of parts of the party I didn't like. I didn't call them policies. Warmongering isn't a policy.


I know it makes you feel icky and all but he's your president also.

 

I hate to break it to you, but "warmongering" happened during the Carter administration, the Clinton administration and continues with the Obama administration.  That's just recent history.  The only difference is that Republicans (conservatives) are more open about it.

Quote:I hate to break it to you, but "warmongering" happened during the Carter administration, the Clinton administration and continues with the Obama administration. That's just recent history. The only difference is that Republicans (conservatives) are more open about it.

So Im not wrong. Thank for agreeing with me.

Quote:I disagree with assimilation. That's a Borg thing. Our differences make us, as a country, better.


I also disagree with the work ethic concept. It's not the government's business whether someone chooses to work hard or hardly work, but it's also not (or shouldn't be) the government's obligation to provide for them if they won't provide for themselves.

I don't think he's wrong really. This country is all about assimilation. Mostly assimilation into American culture sure buy also a lot of foreign culture. Look at our food for a great example of foreign culture being embraced.


We are a melting pot. Not a bento box. The American dream and ideal, I think, is something completely separate than culture but that's probably just semantics.

The government is charged with protecting our political culture - i.e., the Bill of Rights, the separation of powers, judicial review of legislation, etc. With that culture protected and allowed to flourish the American people are free to develop what can be considered the American culture - which can be whatever you want it to be.

Quote:Name three stupid conservative policies.

 

 

I think this thread is kind of interesting.  For the last 7 Years liberals have gotten just about everything that they could have ever dreamed of.  We don't have a thread about the altruistic utopia that we are living in now, so they have to resort to this kind of stuff.  

 

Quote:With pleasure:

 

1. The Patriot Act, and everything it's led into. This should come as no surprise to anyone here, but the Republican Party laid the framework to systematically strip Americans of our rights when they passed the Patriot Act. It was the beginning of the modern push for stupidity over liberty, and will almost certainly haunt us into the next administration.

 

Yeh, all those people in San Bernandino were really haunted by someone reading their E-mails.  


 

2. Extreme military spending. We're going to spend $400 billion (or, likely, more) on a jet platform that is inadequate for all three of its primary users and gets its butt kicked by a 40-year-old F-16 in mock dogfights. As it stands, our Air Force can kick the crap out of the rest of the world. Why do we need to increase military spending? Why not just, I don't know, stop wasting resources trying to topple regimes in the Middle East and bring equipment home rather than continuing to sink money into a military industrial complex that gives us virtually zero return on investment?

 

That has nothing to do with conservatism.  


 

3. Imperialism in the Middle East. JJ can tell you all about my thoughts in this area, so I won't waste much breath beyond saying that America has been screwing around in the Middle East since the 1940's, and it's worked out for us exactly zero times.

 

He's right.  As i have said before I don't and no one should blame TJ for his views on the middle east.  He has been taught his whole life that Islam was invented in the early 20th century by two guys names psyches and pichot.  Everyone please keep the giggling to a minimum.  


 

4. Continuing to focus on stupid crap like same-sex marriage and abortion as the economy and job market tank, i.e., legislating morality. Maybe, just maybe, if more conservatives would approach the issue like John Kasich and come out against both issues while recognizing that we have a million more pressing agenda items than who someone else chooses to sleep with or what a woman does with her body before we double back to those, the GOP wouldn't be facing the lack of millennial support and, ultimately, bleak future that it does.

 

Lol.  I don't even know where to start on this one.  A I have said before, with the exception of the most transcendent candidate in the History of national electoral politics (The first black president) you basically have three straight dominant election performances by the GOP in the Senate, house of representatives, state legislatures, gubernatorial races etc. etc.  I think that the number is somewhere north of a thousand seats nationwide.  Not so much of a bleak future.  


 

I don't know about you, but I can both oppose the slaughter of 15-20% of our population and come up with ideas on the economy.  Moreover, you've had your guy in the white house for the last 7 years, essentially unopposed.  You're seriously going to sit here and blame us for the economy and the job market?  I don't think so.  Also I remember that it was the sitting president that had Rick Warren at his inauguration and lit the white house with a rainbow when the Supreme Court made its ruling.  So it's us that is focusing on the sexual habits of 2% of the population?  Yeh right.  


 

But i am glad to see that you approached this item with the same level of maturity that i have come to expect from you.  


 

5. Illegal immigration. "Build the wall and deport them all" is stupid, expensive and unmanageable. The border fence cannot be completed. It's not just budgetary; it's about terrain. Beyond that, the border fence is comically easy to defeat, even in the highest-security areas like right along the border in southwestern San Diego, where you have the fence, 100 yards of well-lit cement ditch then a second, stronger fence. If you go out to the shoreline, it's even easier: swim out 100 yards, cross the border, swim back in and vanish into a crowd. Any policy focused on spending even more money on a system doomed to fail is asinine.

 

How many times does the man have to say "Strategic fencing & using natural Terrain?"  I mean for crying out loud.  If you are going to make an objection, make one that hasn't been asked and answered already.  No one is proposing build a fence and then leave it unattended.  


 

And, for bonus points, here are a bunch of liberal policies that I absolutely can't stand:

 

1. The expansion of spying on Americans. Bush laid the foundation, but Obama gave us militarized police, naked body scanners in airports, TSA checkpoints on highways, vast expansion of the NSA's data collection, and he "encouraged" Google, Yahoo, Facebook, etc. to provide data to the DOJ without a warrant. He's as much an enemy of the American people as Cheney was in that regard.

 

2. The refusal to say no to a minority group. The Missouri students' protest was created on a solid foundation, and they made some great points, but they chose to go over the top in their demands, and no one in a position of authority called them on demanding the university president to provide a lengthy, written and verbal apology at the same time that he resigned. No one called them on wanting a say in the new president's hiring. Black lives matter is another great one: it started with the best of intentions, but it's lately been more of an excuse to riot than anything else. Liberal politicians continue to cozy up to them, though, because they're afraid to say no to their voters. There are still a healthy number of people in and around Dallas supportive of the clock kid, even after his parents made it very clear that the whole thing was little more than a shakedown. There's a difference between reaching an understanding and giving the thief all your money because you're afraid his family won't like you if you shoot him.

 

3. The "political correctness" movement. When a girl with male genitalia wants to use a locker room designed for girls with female genitalia and people actually defend her wanting to do so, we have problems. When schools are sending kids home for having Star Wars blasters on their shirts, we have a problem. When a black student at a prestigious university says that she feels oppressed because she has to learn from white professors and read books written by white people and the school's response is to lend credibility to her claims, we have a problem. The next generation of Americans will be softer than warm butter if the milennials (and earlier) don't start saying "no" to them, even if it means that a few feelings get hurt or a few white professors end up before academic review boards because they're, um, white.

 

4. Opening the gates to tens of thousands of Syrian refugees, if not more, despite the fact that the FBI has said that they can't even adequately vet the ones coming over now. You can provide charity and compassion to people coming from a war-torn country without letting them off the boat, handing them a visa and asking politely that they not radicalize any American citizens or blow up a bus or anything. Ultimately, we should be focused on getting them into the UN refugee camps abroad that were kinda, sorta designed for that sort of thing.

 

5. Thought policing. This kind of ties into 2 and 3, but it's more related to the handling of high-profile opponents of same-sex marriage and that stupid bakery example that won't die. Apparently, one can't hold to their beliefs in this country without being a bigot. If you're a county clerk and your job is to uphold the law of the land, you have no choice but to do so or resign. That Kentucky twit's sin wasn't thinking differently from the mainstream; it was that she actively broke the law by enforcing those beliefs. You wouldn't know that from reading Huffington Post or watching MSNBC, where she was derided daily as some sort of backwards-thinking neanderthal. That bakery that won't die? They could very easily have avoided the whole mess by putting up a sign saying that they'd gladly bake a cake for anyone, but they reserved the right to not design cakes in a manner against their beliefs. Instead, again, made monsters by the left. That's become the far left's MO--either you're with us, or you're demonized. It's every bit as insidious a method of control as the NSA is, only this time peer pressure is being used instead of government oversight to force compliance.

 

6. The refusal to call radical Islamic terrorism for what it is: plain and simple. If eight Muslims take a tour of Paris, killing anyone they see during that tour, and they do so on the grounds of their beliefs, it's radical Islamic terrorism. One can acknowledge that it's radical Islamic terror without demeaning 1.6 billion people, but the left doesn't seem to get that. It doesn't fit in with the narrative of, "No, seriously guys, we're all friends here, really." We're not. There are a small number of radical Muslims who want us dead. The left is afraid that acknowledging that Islam is a motivation for terrorism would play into the right's hands, so they don't do it. Political expediency.

 

7. The war on guns. Gun restrictions need to happen. Gun registries need to happen. Trying to take away all guns is stupid, it's unconstitutional, it's unfair and it's bound to lead to dozens of shootouts, if not more, when the cops show up to take guns away from people's homes. The "all-or-nothing" mentality of gun control espoused by so many on the left is disingenuous and does nothing to help solve the growing problem of gun violence.

 

8. Fixing the economy. We can only throw borrowed money at our debt for so long before the house of cards collapses. It's time to put a plan into place that scales back that borrowing and tapers it down to zero over the course of a couple years, and makes drastic cutbacks to government policies and programs (including, especially including, the military industrial complex) so that we can balance the budget and be stable as a nation again. If China were to come calling one day and say that they weren't going to lend us any more money until we paid them in full, we'd be boned.

 

9. Education. Common Core is a joke. Education in America is a regionalized thing, and trying to govern it from the federal level is a disaster in waiting. The notion that college should become the equivalent of a high school diploma is unrealistic given the state of our economy--and the number of college grads that make a living collecting unemployment. Instead, funnel kids out of high school into trade schools, with college being an option for those who want to pursue it. Liberals are using schools to indoctrinate kids into many of their policies above, and that's wrong. It needs to stop happening.

 

10. Illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants should not receive welfare, access to free healthcare, education (especially in-state tuition), any of that. Just like I said above that "build the wall and deport them all" is idiotic, so is the far left's plan for solving the problem by opening the doors to any and all who want to walk through them, regardless of whether they go through the right way or not.

 

TL;DR- everyone with a D or an R on their voter card is a blind fool

 

 

Quote:Ending governments role in consenting adult unions, gay marriage, pologomy, prostitution and ending prohibition of non-pharmesuticals isnt anarchy.

 

Traditional marriage isn't a conservative idea.  Traditional Marriage has been the position of every president ever elected to office.  It has so much Bipartisan support that even in blue states like California it couldn't be over turned through the democratic process.  

 

1.) If you support Gay Marriage fine, but don't throw the totality of human history at the feat of conservatives to try and label them homophobic.  

 

2.) Eric, this wasn't about getting the government out of anyone's life.  It was about proliferating the idea that the government can sell indulgences, and grant the power to those who oppose traditional institutions to, in some cases, force them out of business.  

Okay, this is going to sound a little bit arrogant, but honestly, guys, once you start calling yourself "liberal" or "conservative" that is a sign that you have given up independent thinking.   It means that you have signed onto an orthodoxy, a dogma, and that you prefer to have "leaders" to tell you what to think.   This is why self-identified "conservatives" watch Fox News, and self-identified "liberals" read Huffington Post.  They have made their decision which side they are going to be on, and want to have their political positions explained to them and not challenged by any facts that may cause intellectual dissonance.   They have bought into the "liberals=bad/conservatives=good" or vice-versa.   They want to be given a default position on any issue so they don't have to work through it intellectually.   It's LAZY.  

Quote:Okay, this is going to sound a little bit arrogant, but honestly, guys, once you start calling yourself "liberal" or "conservative" that is a sign that you have given up independent thinking.   It means that you have signed onto an orthodoxy, a dogma, and that you prefer to have "leaders" to tell you what to think.   This is why self-identified "conservatives" watch Fox News, and self-identified "liberals" read Huffington Post.  They have made their decision which side they are going to be on, and want to have their political positions explained to them and not challenged by any facts that may cause intellectual dissonance.   They have bought into the "liberals=bad/conservatives=good" or vice-versa.   They want to be given a default position on any issue so they don't have to work through it intellectually.   It's LAZY.  

 

You're absolutely right.  That is incredibly arrogant.  Calling yourself liberal conservative or even independent is just a means of characterizing your belief system if you have one.  That doesn't inherently mean that you blindly sign on point by point to some tablet written in stone.  

 

There are people across the political spectrum, yes even independents, that  don't want to hear anything other than their own preconceived notions and refuse to engage when facts on the ground change.  There are also people who are rigidly ideological who can give very pointed detailed support for their position given changes in circumstances.  

 

Calling someone LAZY just because they use a commonly accepted descriptor to summarize their political beliefs is LAZY and AAROGANT.  If you want to rail about being able to take individual circumstance into account then you could start by evaluating each person based on how they actually process information rather than just trying to label everyone who thinks they fit in an established thought process.  

Quote:You're absolutely right.  That is incredibly arrogant.  Calling yourself liberal conservative or even independent is just a means of characterizing your belief system if you have one.  That doesn't inherently mean that you blindly sign on point by point to some tablet written in stone.  

 

There are people across the political spectrum, yes even independents, that  don't want to hear anything other than their own preconceived notions and refuse to engage when facts on the ground change.  There are also people who are rigidly ideological who can give very pointed detailed support for their position given changes in circumstances.  

 

Calling someone LAZY just because they use a commonly accepted descriptor to summarize their political beliefs is LAZY and AAROGANT.  If you want to rail about being able to take individual circumstance into account then you could start by evaluating each person based on how they actually process information rather than just trying to label everyone who thinks they fit in an established thought process.  

 

Lol. 

 

Okay.  Point taken.  

 

I still think I'm right, though.  

Quote:Can you imagine if a liberal deigned to say "YOUR president" during the Bush era?

 

You're right, no liberals ever said that like, ever.

 



 

The American dream is long dead. Long live nepotism. Just look at your choice in politics.


Trump, Bush, Clinton etc etc