Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:2016 Jaguars defensive Coordinator?

I just posted in the "we tried everything" thread... I'd like to see Rob Ryan hired to replace babich.


After this offseason he should have some good pieces to work with and could bring a new more aggressive culture to the defense.

Really to understand the scheme is to get into "football theory" for lack of a better term. The scheme isn't the issue though. The team just doesn't have enough speed and a good pass rush really. To me it's a non issue. If anyone has been paying attention we can see that Caldwell has placed a major emphasis on the offense trying to get that together. That seems to be fixed now.


There is only one first rounder every year and only so much you can fix in an off-season. I'd rather him get one side straigh than try to fix both at the same time and they both suck. Next year will be when the resources get placed on the defense and there will be a dramatic improvement.

Quote:Caldwell also snagged a bunch of Seattle's old guys. Well, They are all over the hill now. I don't really have an issue with the way Caldwell has done business in this regard because while patching the defense in F/A, He fixed the offense via the draft (Most important). Expect the defense to get some more draft love going forward and expect the defense to get better as we go. 

True, he did; but it was the guys that the seahawks were ready to let go of for various reasons such as age or lack of production. What we got was the seahawks 'cast offs'. No wonder they didn't do that much here... they weren't doing that much for Seattle by the time they were let go. I think that, as you pointed out, the emphasis has been more on fixing our offense the past couple of years. I think that we have our offense shored up enough for the present that more emphasis can be put back on shoring up our defense... which I've no doubt is exactly what Dave will work on. This isn't to say we still don't have needs on our offense; to be sure, we could use upgrades on our o-line. That being said, I still think the lions share of emphasis will go this next draft and f/a to defensive players, particularly linesmen. It'll be interesting to see what we have in Fowler over the next couple of years.

Quote:Really to understand the scheme is to get into "football theory" for lack of a better term. The scheme isn't the issue though. The team just doesn't have enough speed and a good pass rush really. To me it's a non issue. If anyone has been paying attention we can see that Caldwell has placed a major emphasis on the offense trying to get that together. That seems to be fixed now.


There is only one first rounder every year and only so much you can fix in an off-season. I'd rather him get one side straigh than try to fix both at the same time and they both suck. Next year will be when the resources get placed on the defense and there will be a dramatic improvement.

Which is why I really like Ramsey as our first round pick because I think he gets ln the field quick and makes an immediate impact. Add back in fowler. Then you have the rest od the draft and of course free agency before it, to bolster the lines more and add depth.

Quote:I'm thinking they started the scheme when Gus got there, and he didn't seem to have any problems when he was in Seattle. So, no, I don't think that's it. I do feel it's largely a matter of not having adequate players in key spots for the scheme to work. Get Jaylon Smith in here at OTTO with Fowler at LEO, and this is a much improved defense. It also helps to have Kam Chancellor at S to bring the boom. The secondary really doesn't have anyone after Colvin and House, and with Sen'Derrick gone most of the year the other true playmaker on defense is Telvin Smith, and to a lesser extent Poz. This defense simply needs far more talent to work, and they need someone better than Babich coordinating their efforts.

well said.

Quote:I just posted in the we tried everything" thread... I'd like to see Rob Ryan hired to replace babich.


After this offseason he should have some good pieces to work with and could bring a new more aggressive culture to the defense.

 

 

The tricky part in a D-Coord is that ideally he should continue on in the "Seattle" scheme they've learned. Would Ryan be willing to do that? I'd hope so, because his own scheme has been sucking as of late.

Quote:Look at us, Atlanta and to a lesser degree, Seattle. It seems to have been figured out.

Well... I think it is just KEY on having TWO lockdown CBs, and play makers at OTTO, LEO and FS...

 

that is a lot to ask of a scheme isn't it? or of a GM to fill the scheme?

 

-shrug- I don't have the answer.

Quote:Well... I think it is just KEY on having TWO lockdown CBs, and play makers at OTTO, LEO and FS...

 

that is a lot to ask of a scheme isn't it? or of a GM to fill the scheme?

 

-shrug- I don't have the answer.

 

But no scheme is going to cover up less than adequate talent. Think back to Manning when he would go back and forth with all of his machinations and "calls" at the line. All he was trying to do was figure out what coverage the Defense was in then isolate the weak spot. That's what Offenses do now. Granted, you aren't going to play Manning every week, but with the current environment around the League regarding Pass Defense, you really have to let the guy catch the ball! So that means you either play Man, where it's a lot more likely to get burned. Or you play Zone and hope that you can get enough Defenders in the zones to be able to close quick enough.

 

Every scheme works and every scheme has a weakness, but it's not illegal to want and get great players to fit into your scheme.

Quote: 

Every scheme works and every scheme has a weakness, but it's not illegal to want and get great players to fit into your scheme.

Well yeah.... Seattle kind of caught lightning in a bottle I think.

They had guys from the 1st thru 5th rounds and undrafted guys making plays. This scheme worked really well early.

 

I'm just not sure it is fair to think Caldwell can find guys to fill those roles. 

And it handcuffs him to have to find a "Leo" or a "super playmaking FS"

those guys don't just grow on trees....

 

Seattle had Sherman and Maxwell, Kam and Earl, Irvin, Wagner, Wright on both SB teams...

and Red and Clem in their final good years when they actually won the SB

 

And 3 years later, their D isn't even why they are winning games anymore. It's still good but not elite...

flash in the pan...

 

I think we may need to move away from the scheme.... and build around the playmakers we currently have.

It works for Seattle because they have like 5 pro bowlers on their team

People act like these schemes didn't exist before Seattle got good. It's the same stuff recycled over and over.

Quote:People act like these schemes didn't exist before Seattle got good. It's the same stuff recycled over and over.

 

Yup. It may blow people's minds if they found out that what Carroll is running in Seattle is what Monte Kiffin ran while with the Buccaneers and Dungy got the credit for running a "Tampa Two".

Quote:People act like these schemes didn't exist before Seattle got good. It's the same stuff recycled over and over.

 

It's true that Carroll's D is a hybrid of pre-existing schemes, but it was pretty unique for a few years when looking around the league at the time. 

 

Some teams had/have their version of a wide LEO-type end, some teams use/used press coverage and outside leverage with their corners  - and a number of teams had/have their own version of a "tampa-two," but they were the only one combining all of those things  - and with impressive results. 

Quote:Yup. It may blow people's minds if they found out that what Carroll is running in Seattle is what Monte Kiffin ran while with the Buccaneers and Dungy got the credit for running a "Tampa Two".

 

Seahawks and Jags run Cover 3 predominantly.

Quote:It's true that Carroll's D is a hybrid of pre-existing schemes, but it was pretty unique for a few years when looking around the league at the time. 

 

Some teams had/have their version of a wide LEO-type end, some teams use/used press coverage and outside leverage with their corners  - and a number of teams had/have their own version of a "tampa-two," but they were the only one combining all of those things  - and with impressive results. 

 

I dunno man, I'm gonna disagree with you here. Kiffin was running this thing (scroll down to the first picture in the Link, it'll look spookily familiar) at Arkansas back in the 60's and 70's, and from what I can tell he was running this thing with a Wide 9 / LEO / ELEPHANT End with CBs being up in Press there as well.

Quote:Seahawks and Jags run Cover 3 predominantly.

 

My mistake then.

Quote:I dunno man, I'm gonna disagree with you here. Kiffin was running this thing (scroll down to the first picture in the Link, it'll look spookily familiar) at Arkansas back in the 60's and 70's, and from what I can tell he was running this thing with a Wide 9 / LEO / ELEPHANT End with CBs being up in Press there as well.

 

I meant unique to the NFL  at the time Seattle introduced and succeeded with it, be we can still argue if you want.  Dummy.  

 

"... but it was pretty unique for a few years when looking around the league at the time. "

 

BTW  --  Have you tried this yet?



 

You'll be tempted to do a little tampa-two-step after a good nip. ^

Quote:I meant unique to the NFL  at the time Seattle introduced and succeeded with it, be we can still argue if you want.  Dummy.  

 

"... but it was pretty unique for a few years when looking around the league at the time. "

 

BTW  --  Have you tried this yet?



 

You'll be tempted to do a little tampa-two-step after a good nip. ^

 

I have not, but I like that you've opened my eyes to new things!

Quote:I just posted in the "we tried everything" thread... I'd like to see Rob Ryan hired to replace babich.


After this offseason he should have some good pieces to work with and could bring a new more aggressive culture to the defense.

 

I think he's the most overrated coordinator in the league and that's saying something since not many people think he's all that great.

 

Assuming we wouldn't go in house for our coordinator, I'd much rather look at some good coaches on existing staffs who may be out of a job soon. Spagnuolo (NYG) if Coughlin "retires" at the end of the season and Teryl Austin (DET) if Caldwell is let go and he doesn't get a head coaching job. If they wanted to really switch things up, Ray Horton (TEN) could also be an interesting one since his scheme is almost the opposite of ours in that it's a 3-4 that functions like a 4-3. Pettine could also be someone to look at since he was a DC in both New York and Buffalo before getting a head coaching opportunity. Jim Schwartz and Mike Smith are both sitting at home right now too, though I think both are waiting/hoping for head coaching opportunities.

In Madden,  my defense is a punt block formation with the return man as the last line of defense.  It works most of the time.