Quote:It's only different because you say it is. In every case it's a matter of an owner and his rights to his property.
Except when the life of another human being is involved. I'm not saying give the drug away to people who can afford it, but I am saying that there should be aid for those who can't afford the pill themselves. No one should have to die because they can't afford life-saving medication.
A second point of note: this pill can obviously be produced for a few dollars per, at most, given its previous price. One could argue that if the new owner were to arbitrarily raise the price and someone who had been on the pill died because they couldn't afford to continue treatment, the new owner had committed manslaughter.
Quote:Who's talking about criticism? We're talking about government mandated price controls. Criticize all you want.
And medicine and medical knowledge are a commodity, just like everything else. That it is essential only serves to make it more valuable. If you dont like it then go to medical school yourself or invent your own life saving drugs. That used to be the American way, now we just cry and make the government give us what we want like we're all 2 year olds.
If this were about cars or boats or houses or even food, we'd be in total agreement. The line for me is drawn when someone is dying, there's a pill out there that can save their life, and the pharmaceutical company charges $10k for a pill that costs them $0.10 to produce without offering any assistance or alternative to those
who will die without it.
Quote:Who's talking about criticism? We're talking about government mandated price controls. Criticize all you want.
And medicine and medical knowledge are a commodity, just like everything else. That it is essential only serves to make it more valuable. If you dont like it then go to medical school yourself or invent your own life saving drugs. That used to be the American way, now we just cry and make the government give us what we want like we're all 2 year olds.
You support price gouging at the expense of other people health? Let's be clear, this case, the one we are talking about is plan and simple price gouging. You may be addressing a more broader issue but I am not. In this case and others like it, it is price gouging at the expense of your fellow Americans. That is real evil.
The problem here isn't like if a car manufacturer decided to waaaay over charge for their vehicles as if people don't see value in them they won't buy them and will turn elsewhere for a vehicle more in their price/value range. It's completely different when people who are sick depend on the medication and due to pure greed have been priced out of it for no actual business reason.
I already know you will approve of despicable behavior like this based on previous stances you have taken. I just want to be clear in what the issue I have actually is.
Quote:You support price gouging at the expense of other people health? Let's be clear, this case, the one we are talking about is plan and simple price gouging. You may be addressing a more broader issue but I am not. In this case and others like it, it is price gouging at the expense of your fellow Americans. That is real evil.
The problem here isn't like if a car manufacturer decided to waaaay over charge for their vehicles as if people don't see value in them they won't buy them and will turn elsewhere for a vehicle more in their price/value range. It's completely different when people who are sick depend on the medication and due to pure greed have been priced out of it for no actual business reason.
I already know you will approve of despicable behavior like this based on previous stances you have taken. I just want to be clear in what the issue I have actually is.
He is actually the Turkey who votes for Christmas. You breed a special kind of idiot down there.
Quote:You support price gouging at the expense of other people health? Let's be clear, this case, the one we are talking about is plan and simple price gouging. You may be addressing a more broader issue but I am not. In this case and others like it, it is price gouging at the expense of your fellow Americans. That is real evil.
The problem here isn't like if a car manufacturer decided to waaaay over charge for their vehicles as if people don't see value in them they won't buy them and will turn elsewhere for a vehicle more in their price/value range. It's completely different when people who are sick depend on the medication and due to pure greed have been priced out of it for no actual business reason.
I already know you will approve of despicable behavior like this based on previous stances you have taken. I just want to be clear in what the issue I have actually is.
I support that another guy has the right to sell his property for what he deems its worth without my OK regardless of the outcome for me or anyone in my family.
And it is NO different because it involves possible death. If you can tell another person that they MUST work for you then that person is your slave. If a doctor MUST treat a patient then he is not free. If a grocer MUST sell his goods at a price you deem appropriate then he is not free. If this guy may not sell his pills for the price he wants to then the pills are not his, they are "Community Property." This is where all this foolishness about "access" is taking us, to the point where you only own what the government says you may.
The issue here is NOT what I would do, it's that I believe I don't have the right to decide for another person what he will do. You think you have rights to other people's will but I'm just teh dumbz.
Quote:If you set controls on the price, then the incentive to create more life-saving drugs is reduced. So your compassion* in forcing someone to give away his property at less than he values it may save lives now but result in others who could have been saved dying.
* Using force to give away someone else's property is not compassion.
BTW, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the date on the original manufacture implies that the patent on the drug in question should have expired by now. If so, any manufacturer could make it and sell it at cost. If the patent was extended by the government, then that implicates a corrupt government, which argues against giving our rulers more control over the medical system.
You're so mean. How can you not agree that we can take other people's stuff when its to benefit our chosen cause of the moment?
Quote:You're so mean. How can you not agree that we can take other people's stuff when its to benefit our chosen cause of the moment?
You're generalizing. There's a big difference between compelling a company to make its life-saving drug available to someone who will die without it and taking "other people's stuff to benefit or chosen cause of the moment". Keep trying though. This is a fun thread to read.
Quote:You're generalizing. There's a big difference between compelling a company to make its life-saving drug available to someone who will die without it and taking "other people's stuff to benefit or chosen cause of the moment". Keep trying though. This is a fun thread to read.
Sorry, no different. If you know CPR are you compelled to use it? The Heimlich? Nope, and no different than giving away your property.
Quote:Sorry, no different. If you know CPR are you compelled to use it? The Heimlich? Nope, and no different than giving away your property.
Corporations should not have the same rights as individuals.
Quote:Corporations should not have the same rights as individuals.
What's it called when corporations are beholden to the whims of the state?
Quote:What's it called when corporations are beholden to the whims of the state?
Who said anything about corporations being beholden to the state? Again, you're taking one example and blowing it up into a blanket statement. If a corporation sells a life-saving drug and someone who needs that drug to survive can't afford it, the corporation should make it affordable for them to use. It's life or death, not "Bob wants a new car". Do you really value a corporation's IP rights over human life?
Quote:Who said anything about corporations being beholden to the state? Again, you're taking one example and blowing it up into a blanket statement. If a corporation sells a life-saving drug and someone who needs that drug to survive can't afford it, the corporation should make it affordable for them to use. It's life or death, not "Bob wants a new car". Do you really value a corporation's IP rights over human life?
It's not a blanket statement, its a basic principle of property rights. You may believe the corp should do that, heck, I believe they should, but that is still short of "they must do that." Because, let's be honest, if other people had to do what I think they should then they don't have free will. Freedom means other people get to make their own decisions. And yes, I value that principle over individual human life.
Quote:Freedom means other people get to make their own decisions. And yes, I value that principle over individual human life.
"Other people".
Corporations are not people. The second something becomes the property of a corporation, it no longer has "human" rights.
I agree with you on this 99% of the time. Completely. But if a company has a pill that is proven to save human lives and they price that pill in the stratosphere, government should have the ability to compel that company to make the pill affordable--not give it away--to people who will die without that medication. I just find the concept of "if they can't afford it, then let them die" to be a difficult pill to swallow (pun intended), especially when we
know that the company that previously owned that pill was able to produce it for a matter of a few dollars each. If this new company has so many doctors and lawyers on staff that it suddenly costs $1,500 to produce a single pill, well, that would seem to be a lesson in corporate bloat that they needed to learn anyway, wouldn't it?
Quote:If the government does that, what incentive does any corporation have to spend millions to develop another new life saving drug?
Most pharmaceutical money comes from insurance companies, which would obviously not qualify for the life-saving exemption.
Quote:If the government does that, what incentive does any corporation have to spend millions to develop another new life saving drug?
The same incentive as always to make obscene amounts of money. Only slightly less obscene.
This next part is not directed at you in particular.
The defense of a clear case of price gouging for the sake of price gouging is quite sad especially considering those that are likely to defend this scumbag are, in a lot of cases, the same that tout morals and values and part of their core principles.
Quote:
The defense of a clear case of price gouging for the sake of price gouging is quite sad especially considering those that are likely to defend this scumbag are, in a lot of cases, the same that tout morals and values and part of their core principles.
Who are you to define other people's morals for them?
Oh, liberal. Rigggghhhtttt.
Quote:Who are you to define other people's morals for them?
Oh, liberal. Rigggghhhtttt.
You can't define morals for people who don't have them to begin with.
That aside I remember all those times you said the same thing to conservatives on here, or about conservative politicians. Oh right...... hypocrisy.
Quote:Who are you to define other people's morals for them?
Oh, liberal. Rigggghhhtttt.
I don't agree with how boudreaumw phrased it, but he does have a point. In your mind, an unborn child has a right to life regardless of the desires of the mother, but the right of a born human to life is subjugated to the right of a corporation to control its intellectual property? Do I have that about right?
Quote:I don't agree with how boudreaumw phrased it, but he does have a point. In your mind, an unborn child has a right to life regardless of the desires of the mother, but the right of a born human to life is subjugated to the right of a corporation to control its intellectual property? Do I have that about right?
You are a phrasing nazi now? You are definitely turning liberal. :teehee: :yes: