Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I don't like gambles. It is important to know what we are getting with all eight picks.

What a lovely idea - I admire your optimism!


Unfortunately, I don't think we can ever be that certain and all picks in the later rounds are a gamble.


I was suggesting Smith might turn out to be worth that gamble.

Quote:Jonnu Smith worth a gamble later-on? Not the tallest though.

 

 

That's just it. I'm starting to look at some of these names, and what strikes me early is how tiny several of them are.


 

Look, Neal Sterling is a small TE and we all know that. I'd like a TE that dwarfs him, but several of these top names are the same size or even smaller including David Njoku, Gerald Everett, Even Ingram and Jonnu Smith. I sort of want to cross out these names on size alone.


 

Michael Roberts at 6' 4 3/8", 261 is maybe a hair bigger than Sterling but still a tad undersized. Looking up Sterling's official combine numbers, he checked in 6' 3 3/8", 238, so Roberts is a good inch taller and 20 lbs heavier.


 

As I said earlier, I'm going to start out looking at Roberts projected to go anywhere from round 3 according to Walters to round 6 according to nlfdraftscout. I'll start with JackCity's quote about him from above...


 

Quote: 

I like Michael Roberts the Toledo tight end. He's 6'5 260. He's a great run blocker and with enormous hands (11" 5/8)

Only really had one year starting but had 16 TDs this year 550 yards and helped block for Kareem Hunt.


He's the proper inline tight end who can still make yards in the passing game. Something crazy like 70% of his catches in college have gone for 1st downs or TDs. Can be had in the 3rd or 4th.

 

 

So he's still a bit raw but already impressive as a blocker and is good at knowing where the first down or TD marker is when running routes. His projected 40-time is a 4.9, which is typical for NFL TEs but may limit him to shorter routes. Regarding his hands,  I read where he had the biggest hands of anyone invited to the Senior Bowl. Also, his 16 TDs was a school record and was the best in college football among TEs last year. I mentioned we need to replace the guy we thought we were getting when we signed Julius, and that was in part a guy who would catch a lot of TDs considering how may he had with the Broncos.


 

As a blocker, Walter's has an intriguing quote about their #9 ranked TE...


 

Quote: 

Scouting sources said that Roberts could be the best pure Y (blocking) tight end in the 2017 NFL Draft.

 

A year developing behind Marcedes might do him a world of good. Here's some more from hoghaven.com...


 

Quote: 

While at Toledo Roberts was also used on the outside, in the slot, and as an H-back. Roberts plays every bit to his size while run blocking and is a massive target for short to intermediate yardage...Roberts is almost a 6th offensive lineman showing a good base and great strength and can actually move and control opponents...Lacks initial quickness and quickness getting out of breaks. http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/1/18/14282...roberts-te

 

His lack of quickness actually makes me think of Marcedes, as does talk of his ability to box out linebackers to position himself for the catch. Watching film at the bottom of this page, they mentioned him having a huge "catch radius" with the ability to catch passes anywhere near his body.


 

I'll be looking at more TEs, but he does sounds like good bar setter.

Quote:That's just it. I'm starting to look at some of these names, and what strikes me early is how tiny several of them are.


 

Look, Neal Sterling is a small TE and we all know that. I'd like a TE that dwarfs him, but several of these top names are the same size or even smaller including David Njoku, Gerald Everett, Even Ingram and Jonnu Smith. I sort of want to cross out these names on size alone.


 

Michael Roberts at 6' 4 3/8", 261 is maybe a hair bigger than Sterling but still a tad undersized. Looking up Sterling's official combine numbers, he checked in 6' 3 3/8", 238, so Roberts is a good inch taller and 20 lbs heavier.


 

As I said earlier, I'm going to start out looking at Roberts projected to go anywhere from round 3 according to Walters to round 6 according to nlfdraftscout. I'll start with JackCity's quote about him from above...


 

 

 

So he's still a bit raw but already impressive as a blocker and is good at knowing where the first down or TD marker is when running routes. His projected 40-time is a 4.9, which is typical for NFL TEs but may limit him to shorter routes. Regarding his hands,  I read where he had the biggest hands of anyone invited to the Senior Bowl. Also, his 16 TDs was a school record and was the best in college football among TEs last year. I mentioned we need to replace the guy we thought we were getting when we signed Julius, and that was in part a guy who would catch a lot of TDs considering how may he had with the Broncos.


 

As a blocker, Walter's has an intriguing quote about their #9 ranked TE...


 

 

A year developing behind Marcedes might do him a world of good. Here's some more from hoghaven.com...


 

 

His lack of quickness actually makes me think of Marcedes, as does talk of his ability to box out linebackers to position himself for the catch. Watching film at the bottom of this page, they mentioned him having a huge "catch radius" with the ability to catch passes anywhere near his body.


 

All be looking at more TE, but he does sounds like good bar setter.

Yeah hes not going to be a crazy weapon in the passing game but can block with the best of them and can be a great red zone target. Perhaps we want more of a receiving tight end though.

Quote:Oj howard from Alabama is the best tight end prospect I have seen come out in years.


Njoku from Miami is an absolute freaks how with so much raw ability. He makes Vernon Davis look like a slob.


That's just the top two guys, there is a lot of depth and potential behind them.


I think we wind up with at least 1TE from draft picks and maybe another couple udfa

Dude the only thing njoku might beat Davis in is his jumps and that might not even happen. I don't know if you were following the draft then but Vernon dominated the combine. He ran a 4.35 I believe at over 250 lbs.

I'm a Bucky Hodges fan,very athletic but not a good blocker. Pretty much what Julius was supposed to be

Quote:I'm a Bucky Hodges fan,very athletic but not a good blocker. Pretty much what Julius was supposed to be

 

Very much agree. Very intriguing player.  Great length, athleticism.

 

The guy who's getting a lot of buzz right now...

 

Adam Shaheen

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/adam...id=2558144

Quote:Dude the only thing njoku might beat Davis in is his jumps and that might not even happen. I don't know if you were following the draft then but Vernon dominated the combine. He ran a 4.35 I believe at over 250 lbs.

It was hyperbole talking about his physique. Just a joke!

Quote:Very much agree. Very intriguing player.  Great length, athleticism.

 

The guy who's getting a lot of buzz right now...

 

Adam Shaheen

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/adam...id=2558144

 

 

Now we're starting to get to someone with legit TE size. I was thinking given how many undersized TEs are already on the roster that we should probably limit our search to TEs at least as big as Michael Roberts. Shaheen measures in at 6' 5 1/8:", 277 lbs. I'll look deeper at him next.

It's interesting that Shaneen played basketball as well. Most of the best tall athletes go into the NBA when they would otherwise be an awesome NFL TE. Here we have a case of a good, tall athlete willing to go the football route. I wish more did that, but the NBA pays more than NFL TEs tend to make.


 

As a pass catcher he's been productive since moving to TE his sophomore season. He led college TEs in receptions as a Junior in his first season as a starter, and it's impressive that he tied Michael Robert's 16 TDs his senior season for the most TDs among college TEs while also setting his school's record. His nfl.com profile goes into detail about his route running both good and bad...


 

Quote:STRENGTHS ...Accomplished high school hooper who brings the same footwork to the field. Has good sink into breaks and can make sharp cuts coming out. Has foot quickness for clever stutter-and-go double moves to uncover against linebackers. Above average speed and acceleration for his size. Creates leverage points against man coverage before breaking his routes off and pulling away. Moved all over the field. Was isolated for fade routes near endzone. Plus hand-eye coordination and shows ability to alter body positioning to improve catch-odds while ball-tracking...

 

WEAKNESSES ...Upper body is stiff and mechanical in his routes. Hasn't learned how to utilize hands to free himself against press. Gets jammed up in his release and can be knocked off the timing of his patterns. Will need to learn to adjust in space in order to maneuver past traffic...

 

 

 

The big question is how "stiff and mechanical" because that could get exposed, although the rest of his weaknesses can be developed out of him. He's clearly more of a pass catcher than a blocker, although he has good size for a blocker (roughly 6-5, 280) so the hope is he can develop there. As his profile sums him up, "...he's a pass catching tight end in a Y-tight end's body." They ding him a bit for his struggles blocking, citing...


 

Quote: 

Physically overwhelmed a lower level of competition...In need of his fair share of technique work as a run blocker. Ducks head into initial contact. Finds himself lunging and chasing when asked to climb to second level. ...He's a poorer blocker than what might be expected for a player with his frame...

 

He's projected to run a sub-4.9, but claims he'll run a sub-4.6 and is often cited as being a "fast TE." Shaheen made first-team across the board including All American. Generally ranked around #8 among TEs, he's also projected to go anywhere from round 3 to 7, although he probably goes ahead of Michael Roberts who tends to rank just outside the top 10. I'll guess round 5 for Shaheen and round 6 for Roberts, although with this draft so deep in TEs you might see both fall a round later.


 

If you scroll down on this page...
http://draftblaster.com/2017-NFL-Draft/s...haheen-te/


 

...you'll get a good look at his extremely natural hands during his 2016 junior season. He truly is a gifted receiver who can make the tough catch, and that has me thinking he's worth developing him into his frame as a blocker. Looking at a few more scouting reports, it's worth noting that has an extra breakaway gear with the ball in his hands that helps him pick up YAC, and he's great at positioning his body to win contested balls. He does seem to have an issue beating press coverage, and it's worth noting that he played against total scrubs, but he still should be a tremendous receiver in the NFL and potentially a tremendous blocker given his frame once he does develop in that area.

Quote:Oj howard from Alabama is the best tight end prospect I have seen come out in years.


Njoku from Miami is an absolute freaks how with so much raw ability. He makes Vernon Davis look like a slob.


That's just the top two guys, there is a lot of depth and potential behind them.


I think we wind up with at least 1TE from draft picks and maybe another couple udfa

 

 

Is there any chance Njoku falls into the Jaguars lap in round two? If so, I'll take a look at him. If not, then why bother
? There doesn't appear to be an opportunity to trade down in this draft, and they're not about to trade up for a TE in such a TE-rich draft. 

Quote:From this draft. Realistically thinking where we'll be at in each round. I really like Bucky Hodges out of Virginia Tech, Gerald Everett out of South Alabama & Jake Butt out of Michigan. 

 

 

I might get around to Gerald Everett, and Jonnu Smith for that matter, if you truly think they'd beat out Neal Sterling for his roster spot, but in effort to not end up with a bunch of tiny TEs on the roster, I'm going to focus on the TEs who are at least average in size. With that in mind I will take a look at Bucky Hodges and the now oh-so-famous Jake Butt.


 

I'm seeing Bucky Hodges ranked anywhere from #3 to #6 among TEs and he measures in at 6' 6 1/8", 245 lbs with a projected sub-4.8 40-yard dash.


 

 

Unfortunately I have to cut this short. I'm about to lose this computer and will have to continue on another one later today.

I don't care about a TE being a bit undersized if he can block when called upon. 

 

Plenty of NFL teams are employing undersized speedy ends to good success.  I wouldn't get too hung up on a guy being only 6'4" - 257lbs.  Many of those guys block well enough to be versatile.  

 

If he can block when he has to and you've got another prototypically-sized TE on the roster for goal-line type stuff - it's really not a big deal. 

 

I have no idea of Marrone and Hackett's intentions for the TE in their playbook and game planning, but if I had to guess, a later round bruiser type may go hand in hand  with the intent to "build the trenches."  However - if there's a speedy guy with good hands that falls to them at a mid-round pick  - I'd bet he's in play as well. 

Quote:Eric Saubert and Adam Shaheen are the day 3 tight end standouts to me. 

From Daniel Jeremiah's Ask 5 series: 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...sf58068206

 

<b>Executive 1:</b> Ashland TE Adam Shaheen
"He's clearly the third-best tight end in this year's class and I think you'll start to hear first-round buzz about him by the time his workout is finished. It's hard to find tight ends with his combination of size, speed and toughness. He's a unique talent."

 
 
Ok...so maybe just Saubert as the day 3 standout I really like...

Quote: 

From Daniel Jeremiah's Ask 5 series: 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...sf58068206

 

<b>Executive 1:</b> Ashland TE Adam Shaheen
"He's clearly the third-best tight end in this year's class and I think you'll start to hear first-round buzz about him by the time his workout is finished. It's hard to find tight ends with his combination of size, speed and toughness. He's a unique talent."

<div> 
 
Ok...so maybe just Saubert as the day 3 standout I really like...
 

</div>

 

 

Wow... 3rd best in class? Mayock can spot them too.


 

I noticed somewhat of a trend with his rankings based on how early they came out and his anticipated round. Shaheen announced late and is missing from half the rankings. Among those that do show him, the initial ones had him as a 6th or a 7th. Then I noticed a 4th or 5th round along with a 3rd to 6th round more recently. With Mayock saying this, his stock could be skyrocketing. That said, it appears Mayock is ignoring the knock on him for not being a polished blocker even though he sure looks the part.

How fast is Shaheen. I keep seeing references to his speed, but the only time I saw projected for him was something in the 4.8 range. But there was one quip about him claiming to do under a 4.6, and now I just saw this article about him suggesting he will...
http://sportdfw.com/2017/01/24/dallas-co...-galore/6/

<p style="margin-left:40px;"> 

If he's 6-5 and can run a 4.6, he'd be the new Gronk.

Quote:I don't care about a TE being a bit undersized if he can block when called upon. 

 

Plenty of NFL teams are employing undersized speedy ends to good success.  I wouldn't get too hung up on a guy being only 6'4" - 257lbs.  Many of those guys block well enough to be versatile.  

 

If he can block when he has to and you've got another prototypically-sized TE on the roster for goal-line type stuff - it's really not a big deal. 

 

I have no idea of Marrone and Hackett's intentions for the TE in their playbook and game planning, but if I had to guess, a later round bruiser type may go hand in hand  with the intent to "build the trenches."  However - if there's a speedy guy with good hands that falls to them at a mid-round pick  - I'd bet he's in play as well. 

 

 

The players get measured on March 1, so this should get interesting as I'm noticing heights varying quite a bit. I can see a guy 6-4, 257 working out at TE, but the NFL will always be an uphill battle for him. That's right about as small as you want to be at TE, and some of these guys are even smaller. When I see something like 6-2, 228, I'm thinking the guy simply should not be a TE.

Quote:The day Lewis retires I will be happy. The only te. To have multiple contracts and always be injured.

11 seasons...

8 seasons of 15+ games played.

 

5 full seasons including 2015

 

 

I mean... I'm all for arguing against Lewis if you want. But use something like... only topped double digit TDs once.

Topped 500 yards like twice...

 

 

IDK... he was always a good blocker, he developed into an OK pass catcher at times... now he's just an OK all around TE that probably wasn't used any better than JT was...

And he isn't even really overpaid.

I'm now curious to know Mayock's ranking, so here it is...

1. OJ Howard
   
   
2. David Njoku
   
   
3. Evan Engram
   
   
4. Jake Butt
   
   
5. Gerald Everett
   
   

Now this ranking is about a week old, so did he update his TE rankings with Adam Shaheen #3?


 

BTW, it's interesting that Bucky Hodges, who I'm about to look into more, is not in Mayock's top five. Bucky is said to be a 2nd to 3rd round pick, but with Shaheen possibly moving up and again with so many TEs in this class, Hodges very well might be sitting there when the Jaguars pick in the early third.

Bucky Hodges = Devin Funchess.


Pass

Quote:Bucky Hodges = Devin Funchess.


Pass

 

But what if he ends up being Marques Colston?

 

That's why the tall, speedy, athletic TEs are so intriguing.  You can create so many mismatches.