Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:This sums up this team the last 4 years

 

This is how I feel everytime the halftime show ends for the last several seasons

The team was winning when Shack was the GM. His final season was the 2008 season so I'm not sure it's really fair to include him in the struggles since their '07 playoff appearance when they lost to the 2007 Patriots that's widely acknowleged as one of the best teams this century.

But 02, most of the 2007 teams core was still made up of TC's draft picks and his FA players... on offense there was Taylor and Garrard plus the OL had Meester, Maurice Williams, Naeole and Pashos starting... the defense still had Stroud, Henderson, Meier and Spicer... if I'm not mistaken Stroud, Henderson, Meier and Spicer had close to half the sacks the team had that year... so I wouldn't be fast to give Shack all that much credit...

We have had a series of bad first round picks like no other.


And sorry but still hate jeff fisher.

Quote:Even in those seasons, you never got the sense that the Rams didn't come to play really; and they've beat good teams like Seattle repeatedly. I think the last time we beat a team with a winning record was the Colts in 2012

 

I agree that the Rams have been competitive under Jeff Fisher and have clearly beaten some good teams.   Especially,  in the NFC West head to head games,  as you illustrated in part with the wins over Seattle.

 

Also,  there's no question that at this point in time,  Jeff Fisher is a much more accomplished Head Coach than Gus Bradley and that Fisher has been in a difficult situation in St  Louis with owner Stan Kroenke alienating the Rams fans in the region with his actions all pointing to him wanting to move the team to suburban Los Angeles ( Inglewood. ).

 

On the other side of the coin,  the Rams have had tremendous draft resources because of the RGIII draft resource trade with the Redskins.   Yet,  at least up until this current season,  Jeff Fisher has yet to have even a .500 season with the Rams.

 

 As for Gus Bradley,   the jury is out.   When Bradley became the Jags HC,  the team had amongst the least amount of talent of any teams this century.   In some respects it was even a worse situation than the post 2008 0-16 Lions because at least Calvin Johnson was on that team and there was a potential Franchise QB in the 2009 Draft (  Matthew Stafford ).  

 

 One concern with Bradley is he's already on his 2nd Offensive Coordinator.  

 

 There's no question the Jags need to show tangible progress this season.   If/ when the team gets some of it's key injured players back,   expectations should understandably be higher.  But it probably won't be until next season that the Jags might be a legit playoff contender when D. Fowler is back and S.D. Marks is a year further away from the major knee injury.    Not to mention,  another off-season of upgrades via FA and the Draft.  With a very favorable cap situation.

Quote:Honestly do you really think that Sam Young is that much different than that of Luke Joeckel at LT?  To me they are both the same a below average LT in the NFL on the top 10 teams they would be on the practice squad.

 

Yeah, I think it was night and day difference when Luke was in versus when Young was in.

 

I mentioned this in the game day thread on Sunday, but I don't remember hearing Luke Joeckel's name very much or at all (unill he got injured) and when you're an O-Lineman, not having your name called out is usually a good thing.

 

I thought Luke played pretty well Sunday, prior to the injury....  Maybe I missed something?  Did you see it differently?

Quote:The team was winning when Shack was the GM. His final season was the 2008 season so I'm not sure it's really fair to include him in the struggles since their '07 playoff appearance when they lost to the 2007 Patriots that's widely acknowleged as one of the best teams this century.

Very true. We are used to giving him a ton of flack. Then came Gene, so they lumped em together.

Quote:But 02, most of the 2007 teams core was still made up of TC's draft picks and his FA players... on offense there was Taylor and Garrard plus the OL had Meester, Maurice Williams, Naeole and Pashos starting... the defense still had Stroud, Henderson, Meier and Spicer... if I'm not mistaken Stroud, Henderson, Meier and Spicer had close to half the sacks the team had that year... so I wouldn't be fast to give Shack all that much credit...

Fact: During Shack Harris' tenure as personnel man, the Jags had an NFL team, and made the playoffs multiple times. Fact.


Credit is for ilks. I give Caldwell credit for assembling such a talented roster, from scratch too.

Quote:Yeah, I think it was night and day difference when Luke was in versus when Young was in.

 

I mentioned this in the game day thread on Sunday, but I don't remember hearing Luke Joeckel's name very much or at all (unill he got injured) and when you're an O-Lineman, not having your name called out is usually a good thing.

 

I thought Luke played pretty well Sunday, prior to the injury....  Maybe I missed something?  Did you see it differently?

 

It's worth going back and watching Joke in the first half.  I'm not declaring he played disastrous but he wasn't good (but was effective).  However, he had some stumbles and the D was a split second away from sacking BB through Joke.  The quick passes often negated the pressure that was coming through Joke.

Quote:The team was winning when Shack was the GM. His final season was the 2008 season so I'm not sure it's really fair to include him in the struggles since their '07 playoff appearance when they lost to the 2007 Patriots that's widely acknowleged as one of the best teams this century.

I believe we have to lump Shack in because of the Leftwich pick and then reaching for WR's in the 1st round the next few years.  It is my opinion that this is what started the downward spiral that we just cannot get untracked from.

Ok, I get ya. So the argument can be made that Shack inherited a decent TC roster, as Shag expressed, muddled it up, passed on to Gene who then massacred it.

Quote:Ok, I get ya. So the argument can be made that Shack inherited a decent TC roster, as Shag expressed, muddled it up, passed on to Gene who then massacred it.

 

He inherited more than a "decent" roster. Mark Brunell (past his prime but a good trading chip), David Garrard, Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith, Kyle Brady, Maurice Williams, Chris Naeole, Brad Meester, Paul Spicer, Rob Meier, Marcus Stroud, John Henderson. Shack did a decent job at drafting, just not in the first round. 

Quote:But 02, most of the 2007 teams core was still made up of TC's draft picks and his FA players... on offense there was Taylor and Garrard plus the OL had Meester, Maurice Williams, Naeole and Pashos starting... the defense still had Stroud, Henderson, Meier and Spicer... if I'm not mistaken Stroud, Henderson, Meier and Spicer had close to half the sacks the team had that year... so I wouldn't be fast to give Shack all that much credit...

 

 

There is something to be said for knowing who to keep as well. This is the one area where I do kind of wonder about Caldwell. I understand the need to get rid of dead weight such as Rashean Mathis, who at least at the time looked be going downhill, and Jeremy Mincey, who was failing to show up at practices, along with Uche Nwaneri, Greg Jones and MJD, all of whom never did much of anyting since, but was he maybe too quick to part with Daryl Smith, Terrance Knighton, Dwight Lowery, Rashad Jennings, LB Brandon Marshall and Cecil Shorts?

Conner Cook in next years draft please

Quote:Yeah, I think it was night and day difference when Luke was in versus when Young was in.

 

I mentioned this in the game day thread on Sunday, but I don't remember hearing Luke Joeckel's name very much or at all (unill he got injured) and when you're an O-Lineman, not having your name called out is usually a good thing.

 

I thought Luke played pretty well Sunday, prior to the injury....  Maybe I missed something?  Did you see it differently?

 

 

That's how I saw it too. Blake went down one time when Joekel was in there, and we hadn't heard a peep out of Charles Johnson. Insert Sam Young and all of the sudden Blake is sacked four more times and Charles Johnson was suddenly a big time player for the Panthers. I really don't think the pick-six happens if Joekel was in there.

Quote:He is a good head coach, but out of current HCs playing as HC I would rather have Andy Reid (heck if he can make KC good in his first year going from the leagues worst to a playoff contender that won almost all of their games he could do a lot here). 

 

I want to preface this by saying in no way am I downplaying Andy Reid's coaching ability (nor am I attacking you), but let's not pretend that the Chiefs' team Reid inherited wasn't loaded with talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I remember "everyone" up in arms about the job he did when he took over, but that KC team was not one hurting in the talent department at the time.

Quote:Ok, I get ya. So the argument can be made that Shack inherited a decent TC roster, as Shag expressed, muddled it up, passed on to Gene who then massacred it.

 

 

I still see Shack as the Jaguars best GM since the first few years under TC. Now granted Shack had a high bust rate among his lower tier players even compared to Gene Smith, and he was responsible for Huge Mistake Douglas, however, Shack hit quite a few home runs in the draft especially in the second round.

Jeff Fisher, Jags head coach? After hell unfreezes...


NEVER EVER EVER EVER

Quote:Jeff Fisher, Jags head coach? After hell unfreezes...


NEVER EVER EVER EVER

 

 

The Jaguars would probably lose a third of their fan base if they brought him in.

Quote:I still see Shack as the Jaguars best GM since the first few years under TC. Now granted Shack had a high bust rate among his lower tier players even compared to Gene Smith, and he was responsible for Huge Mistake Douglas, however, Shack hit quite a few home runs in the draft especially in the second round.

Agreed. The angst on him were curious. He came from the best in the biz in Bmore and had that old school knowledge and connections. We measured up with him on the reigns.