Quote:Source? I didn't see that. If it's true, then the coach certainly should be not only fired/banned from coaching high school football, he should also be brought up on charges.
It's all over today.
I do agree that the kids saying he used racial slurs is bogus. It just sounds like they want to double down on blaming someone. The ref talked about libel about them using it, as he should.
They're 17. They're old enough to know the difference between tackling another player and targeting a ref. At least one of them dove helmet-first into the ref's spine. They both deserve to be charged with assault, as does the coach. If the third player mentioned testifies that he didn't follow the coach's order to paralyze the ref, that should seal the deal.
Quote:Moellet
I like that. I'm going to use that.
The coach ordered them to paralyze the ref?
Quote:The coach ordered them to paralyze the ref?
According to the assailants, one of their coaches pulled them aside and told them to hit the ref.
"Ordered them to paralyze" was a mistatement on my part, but watching the video of the hits, as they drive their helmets into the ref's spine, assuming that they intended to cause severe bodily harm is not a long jump to make.
Quote:According to the assailants, one of their coaches pulled them aside and told them to hit the ref.
"Ordered them to paralyze" was a mistatement on my part, but watching the video of the hits, as they drive their helmets into the ref's spine, assuming that they intended to cause severe bodily harm is not a long jump to make.
I think it is a pretty big jump to make. I just prefer to deal with the facts at hand and not exaggerate what actually happened.
Sounds to me coach told them to hurt the ref (big difference) and the kids did as they were told. I put more blame on the coach than the kids. Not that the 17 year olds are blameless, but they are being told to do something by someone they most likely look up to. Its not an excuse and another team member did not do it, but its sucks the coach would put those kids in that situation. If they didn't hurt him they probably would have been punished by the coach.
Quote:I think it is a pretty big jump to make. I just prefer to deal with the facts at hand and not exaggerate what actually happened.
Sounds to me coach told them to hurt the ref (big difference) and the kids did as they were told. I put more blame on the coach than the kids. Not that the 17 year olds are blameless, but they are being told to do something by someone they most likely look up to. Its not an excuse and another team member did not do it, but its sucks the coach would put those kids in that situation. If they didn't hurt him they probably would have been punished by the coach.
I put the blame more on the coach for instructing these kids to do what they did. However, that being said a couple of 17 year olds should know the difference between right and wrong. I believe that all of those involved should be held accountable and made an example of. I also think that they should should suffer the consequences of their actions, up to and including criminal charges.
Quote:I think it is a pretty big jump to make. I just prefer to deal with the facts at hand and not exaggerate what actually happened.
Sounds to me coach told them to hurt the ref (big difference) and the kids did as they were told. I put more blame on the coach than the kids. Not that the 17 year olds are blameless, but they are being told to do something by someone they most likely look up to. Its not an excuse and another team member did not do it, but its sucks the coach would put those kids in that situation. If they didn't hurt him they probably would have been punished by the coach.
The first kid dove into his spine helmet-first, and the second slid his helmet into the ref's back while the ref was on the ground. Even a 17-year-old presumably knows where the spinal column is and what happens if you break it.
I put a lot of blame on the coach as well, but according to what I've seen, the coach told three 17-year-olds to attack the ref, and one of them refused to do so because he knew it was wrong. That should be all the evidence anyone needs to go after both assailants and the coach with criminal charges, and to give them all (including the "innocent" 17-year-olds who were "just following instructions") jail time. If the ref picked up any medical expenses or lost wages after the attack, I hope he goes after all three in civil court as well.
I doubt the ref used racial slurs to begin with and even if he did derogatory words don't justify a blindsided physical attack. Secondly, it is suggested the coach encouraged the attack because of missed calls not because of slurs.
Now, it's a bit convoluted to intertwine racial slurs and missed calls together to justify the cheap shot into the spine. They are merely trying to grow sympathy for their vicious assault any possible way, which anyone with any common sense can see it's a desperate attempt of fabrication.
IMO, the boys should be banned for the year and the coach fired.
Regards.................the Chiefjag
Quote:I think it is a pretty big jump to make. I just prefer to deal with the facts at hand and not exaggerate what actually happened.
Sounds to me coach told them to hurt the ref (big difference) and the kids did as they were told. I put more blame on the coach than the kids. Not that the 17 year olds are blameless, but they are being told to do something by someone they most likely look up to. Its not an excuse and another team member did not do it, but its sucks the coach would put those kids in that situation. If they didn't hurt him they probably would have been punished by the coach.
I played a lot of sports in high school and if a coach told me to do that to the ref, I'm pretty sure I would have told him thats not going to happen. Besides the fact that I know its being taped and its completely obvious, I have morals and self respect.
Quote:I played a lot of sports in high school and if a coach told me to do that to the ref, I'm pretty sure I would have told him thats not going to happen. Besides the fact that I know its being taped and its completely obvious, I have morals and self respect.
And the big issue here is that there are a lot of children who do not have those things. No one put in an authority position over children should be allowed to give such orders. This is beyond criminal in my mind. That guy needs to never have the privilege of teaching children again.
Quote:I put the blame more on the coach for instructing these kids to do what they did. However, that being said a couple of 17 year olds should know the difference between right and wrong. I believe that all of those involved should be held accountable and made an example of. I also think that they should should suffer the consequences of their actions, up to and including criminal charges.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished. I don't like making "examples" of people. Judge them for their actions, period. And yes, criminal charges should apply. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the situation.
Quote:The first kid dove into his spine helmet-first, and the second slid his helmet into the ref's back while the ref was on the ground. Even a 17-year-old presumably knows where the spinal column is and what happens if you break it.
I put a lot of blame on the coach as well, but according to what I've seen, the coach told three 17-year-olds to attack the ref, and one of them refused to do so because he knew it was wrong. That should be all the evidence anyone needs to go after both assailants and the coach with criminal charges, and to give them all (including the "innocent" 17-year-olds who were "just following instructions") jail time. If the ref picked up any medical expenses or lost wages after the attack, I hope he goes after all three in civil court as well.
Yes, but you aren't considering the fact it was done in the heat of the moment. You are presuming a lot by saying they were trying to paralyze him. Were they trying to hurt him? Yes, but I doubt the kids wanted the guy not to walk for the rest of his life.
I didn't say not to criminally charge them. I was simply saying let's deal with the facts and look at everything as a whole instead of getting out the pitch forks.
Quote:I played a lot of sports in high school and if a coach told me to do that to the ref, I'm pretty sure I would have told him thats not going to happen. Besides the fact that I know its being taped and its completely obvious, I have morals and self respect.
Great, that is you and I hope so. I don't think we need to say "I did this and I wouldn't do that". Environment, upbringing, how those coaches treated the kids all play a roll. Your situation is not these kids situation.
Quote:And the big issue here is that there are a lot of children who do not have those things. No one put in an authority position over children should be allowed to give such orders. This is beyond criminal in my mind. That guy needs to never have the privilege of teaching children again.
And the above is what I was trying to get across.
Quote:I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished. I don't like making "examples" of people. Judge them for their actions, period. And yes, criminal charges should apply. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the situation.
My "making examples of" comment is for bringing charges against both the coach and the players. This should be a "teachable" moment not only for high school coaches that manipulate their players to do something wrong, but also to 16-17 year old kids that should know better.
Heck, when I played organized football at 10-11 years old I knew better than to hit a ref. Evidently, teens in this day and age seem to think that it's fine. They need to learn not only that there are consequences for their actions, but they also need to learn about what competition and sportsmanship are all about.
Back in my day... Come on now. So much bad crap happened back in the day. We just didn't have media coverage and news being fed to us like it was "back in your day". Most kids know better. Most coaches know better. There is how many high school teams and coaches and players in the US? And how many incidents like this occur each year? I honestly can't think of anything being reported so I would say this is pretty isolated.
They should be judged on what they did, period. They don't need a harsher punishment for the sake of making an example out of them. That is what making an example out of them is. Harsher punishment to show others. I just don't believe in that.
Quote:Yes, but you aren't considering the fact it was done in the heat of the moment. You are presuming a lot by saying they were trying to paralyze him. Were they trying to hurt him? Yes, but I doubt the kids wanted the guy not to walk for the rest of his life.
I didn't say not to criminally charge them. I was simply saying let's deal with the facts and look at everything as a whole instead of getting out the pitch forks.
It wasn't done "in the heat of the moment". It was premeditated. The players said that he had missed "several" calls and used racial slurs against them (lolwutever), and there was enough time between the missed calls and the hit for those players to go to the sideline, potentially for multiple plays, maybe even an entire series, and decide to take follow their coach's instructions and take out the ref.
Even at 17, their tiny little brains had to be aware of the consequences of spearing an unprotected, unaware person in the back with your helmet at full speed. If they wanted to show their disappointment in the worst possible way, "bumping into him" heads-up at full speed would have gotten their message across. By lunging helmet first, they displayed intent to paralyze imo, and should spend time in prison along with their coach.
Quote:It wasn't done "in the heat of the moment". It was premeditated. The players said that he had missed "several" calls and used racial slurs against them (lolwutever), and there was enough time between the missed calls and the hit for those players to go to the sideline, potentially for multiple plays, maybe even an entire series, and decide to take follow their coach's instructions and take out the ref.
Even at 17, their tiny little brains had to be aware of the consequences of spearing an unprotected, unaware person in the back with your helmet at full speed. If they wanted to show their disappointment in the worst possible way, "bumping into him" heads-up at full speed would have gotten their message across. By lunging helmet first, they displayed intent to paralyze imo, and should spend time in prison along with their coach.
I'm not denying what they did was wrong and dangerous, but you are making a huge leap stating their intent was to paralyze. Of course, that is your opinion, but it can't be proven.
As far as premeditated, it came up during the game. This wasn't something they thought about before the game or planned in advance. It was done in the heat of the moment.