Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:And Lane Johnson is a right tackle

Oh yeah, Peters is there. True that

The pendulum swings...  Right now we are seeing years of quality pass rushers and poor tackles coming out of college.  He is serviceable but please point out the large volume of other LT's stonewalling game in game out in the NFL?  Elite tackles are rare we just got spoiled by getting Tony to start the franchise.

 

Maybe the college systems just aren't translating to the oline play in the nfl.

Teams not happy with their offensive line

 

San Francisco

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_2872...ne-concern

 

Arizona

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_...erformance

 

Tampa Bay

 

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/...cs/2243483

 

And I am sure there are more. Offensive line play in this league is as bad as it has been in years.

Quote:The pendulum swings...  Right now we are seeing years of quality pass rushers and poor tackles coming out of college.  He is serviceable but please point out the large volume of other LT's stonewalling game in game out in the NFL?  Elite tackles are rare we just got spoiled by getting Tony to start the franchise.

 

Maybe the college systems just aren't translating to the oline play in the nfl.

 

I look at someone like DJ Humphries. He was pretty mediocre at Florida but still went in the first round. And, not surprisingly, has struggled so far.

Quote:The pendulum swings...  Right now we are seeing years of quality pass rushers and poor tackles coming out of college.  He is serviceable but please point out the large volume of other LT's stonewalling game in game out in the NFL?  Elite tackles are rare we just got spoiled by getting Tony to start the franchise.

 

Maybe the college systems just aren't translating to the oline play in the nfl.

 

We got spoiled by a golden age of LTs: Boselli, Ogden, Jones, Roaf, Pace. Even second tier guys like Bruce Armstrong, Tony Jones, Bob Whitfield and Todd Stussie that we don't really remember were really good.

Quote:We got spoiled by a golden age of LTs: Boselli, Ogden, Jones, Roaf, Pace. Even second tier guys like Bruce Armstrong, Tony Jones, Bob Whitfield and Todd Stussie that we don't really remember were really good.

 

Completely agree. You could add Richmond Webb, John Fina, Erik Williams to that list also.

Short passing game, flooding the routes, using borderline offensive pass interference to create open receivers, these are the trade marks of the open NFL we are seeing.  Anyone remember any 5-7 step drops lately?  You have to have that rock solid line and with the way the NFL has changed, you are seeing quick strike movement game (Basketball on Grass).

 

Scheme will help our situation at LT.  That draft was awful and even worse when you were in the top 5.

Quote:Personally, I don’t think Joeckel is as bad as people are making him out to be.  I think the problem is that the times he does make a mistake, they are pretty glaring.  Let’s also add that the crop at the LT tree is about as easy to pick from as the QB tree.  And finally, people clamor for them to draft another LT.  Who’s to say the next one is going to be any better?  I think the style of football that college has gone to has made it more and more difficult to truly evaluate line play.  It’s even more of a crapshoot than ever. 

 

 

So what you do is draft a guy that is the concensus best OT in the entire draft.


 

Oh wait...nevermind.

Shack Del Rio...

 

Erik WIlliams was a RT for Dallas, but your larger point remains.

 

FLSportsgod,

 

I'm not sure if I would list Bruce Armstrong as a "second tier" LT.  He made 6 Pro Bowls before it went to fan balloting.

Quote:Shack Del Rio...


Erik WIlliams was a RT for Dallas, but your larger point remains.


FLSportsgod,


I'm not sure if I would list Bruce Armstrong as a "second tier" LT. He made 6 Pro Bowls before it went to fan balloting.

Good call. Tuinei (sp?) was LT. The Bucs had a good one too, Paul Gruber.

I don't think they're desperate at all. I think that Joeckel is more or less average for an NFL tackle right now. As others have said, if you think Joeckel is bad, try watching the play of some other offensive lines out there. Some of them are just flat-out terrible, and there really aren't many great left tackles in the NFL today.

 

If Joeckel doesn't show progress this year, I'd anticipate the Jaguars either pursuing a veteran tackle or drafting one in the second or third round next year to challenge him for the spot. I just don't see the same awful LT that so many here seem to when Joeckel plays. I see a young tackle who has a lot of learning left to do, and he'd better do it fast, but I don't see anything that makes me want to try Austin Pasztor at LT (he'd be a train wreck, btw).

Shack Del Rio...

 

Good call on Gruber. 

 

From about 1987-2000 or so represented that golden age at LT.

 

Sadly, the position seemingly has regressed to a large degree.

 

Interesting post script:  Tuinei was actually a college DL, who was converted under Landry.  But he was no great shakes by any means.  He didn't become a reliable, dependable pass blocker until Jimmy Johnson got there and he was coached by Wise.

Another part is the CBA. It doesn't allow for enough practice or contact which is what the offensive line needs to gel and for players to improve.

Astute observation, SuperJville.

 

Without the time to coach players like they used to, teams and fans will seemingly need to be more patient with players.  Is that possible or realistic?

After watching him get knocked on his keester I would say it's a concern.  A QB needs confidence on the blindside.

It's a premium position, nobodys giving up a good left tackle and Good luck finding one on the streets. Roll with Joekel this year and if he has another bad year then you address the position in the offseason.

Quote:Astute observation, SuperJville.

 

Without the time to coach players like they used to, teams and fans will seemingly need to be more patient with players.  Is that possible or realistic?

 

or just teams need to draft guys that are redshirt seniors and not true juniors.

 

I've actually been saying that for a while now.  These guys barely practice.  I go to training camp practices and they really don't do that much.

 

I'm actually amazed that they put some sort of cohesive unit on the field (although that is a questionable statement for us) given the lack of practice.

 

As a comparison, soccer players train pretty much year-round and play year-round except for a few short weeks in the summer.  And a lot of times during the summer they are playing in the world cup and what not.

 

 

The CBA is doing their players a disservice.  Why can't Joeckel come to Jacksonville and start 3 weeks early, working with his teammates and try to get better?  How is that a bad thing in their eyes?  You're a professional athlete, you should work and practice constantly.

Quote:I feel like Left Tackle is one of those positions you can't leave untouched going into the season if you think your current starter isn't looking so hot. According to a majority of this board Luke Joeckel is awful.

 

So my question is, how desperate are the Jaguars when it comes to adding starter-level insurance before the regular season? Do you think it'll happen?

 

Do the Jaguars themselves feel they have a problem?

They (the coaching staff, you know the ones who get paid lots of money to do their job) have talked about how he's not where he needs to be, but he's improving. 

 

Our expectation on him was too great, he's the #3 pick in really just his 2nd year cause he lost a lot of his first year and within that year changed positions from RT to LT. 

 

So he's not gotten a fair shake in terms of legit development. You could say that last year was his rookie year almost, and this is his 2nd year. I will see him fail at his job, but do see his improvement as well. I admit to be concerned at the slowness of development, but I remain optimistic.