I'm interested to get the input from especially Libertarians and others that support either Ron Paul and/ or his son Rand Paul. By all means, feel free to offer any input you want under the terms of the COC. But the questions that come to mind are as follows:
1. Do you support one or both of the Pauls? If yes, which one ( s )?
2. Do you see them similar in terms of their beliefs or are their major differences?
3. Do you think that Rand Paul has the same or more support/ enthusiasm as his father Ron Paul has had over the last decade or so?
4. If you are a Rand Paul supporter, what would you advise him, if anything, in order to help his Presidential Campaign?
One major reason I'm asking these questions is it doesn't seem like to me that Rand Paul has the type following that his father had in the last two Presidential Elections. Maybe that will change when the debates start. But for now, I don't think Rand Paul is connecting to the Libertarian base the way that his father has connected to them. Having said that, because I consider myself a Conservative Republican, not a Libertarian Republican, maybe I'm missing something in terms of the support level for Rand Paul.
I support both the Paul's but view Ron as the more pure ideologist then Rand. Ron's strength and weakness was his unwilling compromising views as to where Rand is more willing to compromise in order to accomplish something.
For example Ron voted against the patriot act and the ndaa on the grounds it creates vehicles for government to abuse against the public and infringe on civil liberties. Rand on the other hand has voted for lesser versions of the ndaa and simply voiced disagreement with parts of the legislation that are most likely to be abused.
Both have taken a strong anti-intervention stand on foreign policy which I support 100%.
Both are strongly pro-life and argue that one of governments legitimate roles is the protection of life. That's a big deal for me, I've Walked away from other libertarians that are more pro-choice leaning.
Both support decriminalizing pot but more importantly argue for changing the criminal justice system. Standing against the for profit prison system in bed with over legislated codes designed to create a constant flow of prisoners. Prison should be reserved for violent offenders that are a danger to society.
Both most importantly advocate auditing the private federal reserve, abolishing the irs, and changing the tax code to a consumption tax instead of production tax.
Ron was popular for being consistent and ahead of the curve for decades. Ron wasn't popular when warning about the housing crisis in the earl part of the decade, or the financial ramifications we where facing in the future during the 90s. Rand is trying to find that middle ground to accomplish change but it's a hard line to walk.
Pretty much what Eric said, although the Paul family and I disagree on abortion.
I think Rand has become entangled with the politics of the establishment party. His dad would never waver. I disagree on abortion with them but strongly agree on other matters.
In a nutshell, Rand isn't Ron and that's a shame to me but he's more electable in general than Ron which is good for the right.
Ron Paul isn't as great a guy as some may think. I wonder if maybe the reason he was so popular was because of some of the newsletters he wrote... Seems to me he had a good idea of how to employ the Southern Strategy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_newsletters
Quote:I think Rand has become entangled with the politics of the establishment party. His dad would never waver. I disagree on abortion with them but strongly agree on other matters.
In a nutshell, Rand isn't Ron and that's a shame to me but he's more electable in general than Ron which is good for the right.
If by "entangled with the politics of the establishment party" you mean he actually would like to formulate and implement some policies and legislation (i.e., do what he was elected to do) instead of coming across as some doctrinaire loon, then yes Rand isn't Ron.
Rand actually comes across as a viable politician (obviously not to everyone's taste) instead of the crazy uncle kept in the attic.
Don't know much about Rand, but Ron Paul is a cook who would have failed miserably in office. Thank God that joke has run it's course.
Quote:If by "entangled with the politics of the establishment party" you mean he actually would like to formulate and implement some policies and legislation (i.e., do what he was elected to do) instead of coming across as some doctrinaire loon, then yes Rand isn't Ron.
Rand actually comes across as a viable politician (obviously not to everyone's taste) instead of the crazy uncle kept in the attic.
By entangled by the politics of the establishment party I meant exactly that. He's more willing to follow the party than his own ideals. Ron was not.
Thanks everyone who has already provided input in this thread. While I'm interested and encourage debate on the topic, I'm looking at this thread from an information/ learning perspective instead of adding my opinions based on what you have expressed.
Quote:Thanks everyone who has already provided input in this thread. While I'm interested and encourage debate on the topic, I'm looking at this thread from an information/ learning perspective instead of adding my opinions based on what you have expressed.
I don't know that you'll get any real debate. I know of very few Rand Paul fans who weren't also fans of his father.
Quote:I'm interested to get the input from especially Libertarians and others that support either Ron Paul and/ or his son Rand Paul. By all means, feel free to offer any input you want under the terms of the COC. But the questions that come to mind are as follows:
1. Do you support one or both of the Pauls? If yes, which one ( s )?
2. Do you see them similar in terms of their beliefs or are their major differences?
3. Do you think that Rand Paul has the same or more support/ enthusiasm as his father Ron Paul has had over the last decade or so?
4. If you are a Rand Paul supporter, what would you advise him, if anything, in order to help his Presidential Campaign?
One major reason I'm asking these questions is it doesn't seem like to me that Rand Paul has the type following that his father had in the last two Presidential Elections. Maybe that will change when the debates start. But for now, I don't think Rand Paul is connecting to the Libertarian base the way that his father has connected to them. Having said that, because I consider myself a Conservative Republican, not a Libertarian Republican, maybe I'm missing something in terms of the support level for Rand Paul.
1. I don't necessarily dislike either one, they both have/had good intentions in my opinion. I could support Rand Paul over anyone on the democrat side. He's not in my "top 5" at the moment.
2. I think Rand is a little more towards the center than Ron.
3. I think that Rand might have a bit more support than his father had, though not much more.
4. I wouldn't really call myself a "supporter" at the moment, so I really couldn't answer this one.
Quote:I support both the Paul's but view Ron as the more pure ideologist then Rand. Ron's strength and weakness was his unwilling compromising views as to where Rand is more willing to compromise in order to accomplish something.
Since we are a nation with vast points of view, sometimes compromise is necessary in order to get something done.
For example Ron voted against the patriot act and the ndaa on the grounds it creates vehicles for government to abuse against the public and infringe on civil liberties. Rand on the other hand has voted for lesser versions of the ndaa and simply voiced disagreement with parts of the legislation that are most likely to be abused.
I think that when it was first introduced and signed into law, The Patriot Act was a necessary evil. What it's become I don't fully agree with. As far as the National Defense Authorization Act, I don't know why it's such a bad thing.
Both have taken a strong anti-intervention stand on foreign policy which I support 100%.
This is where I disagree 100%, especially in today's world.
Both are strongly pro-life and argue that one of governments legitimate roles is the protection of life. That's a big deal for me, I've Walked away from other libertarians that are more pro-choice leaning.
I'm personally pro-life and I don't believe that abortion and/or birth control should be funded by the federal government. However, I also believe that there are cases when abortion is possibly the best choice, depending on the circumstance. I don't think that abortion should be illegal with the exception of late-term abortion (except in extremely rare circumstances).
Both support decriminalizing pot but more importantly argue for changing the criminal justice system. Standing against the for profit prison system in bed with over legislated codes designed to create a constant flow of prisoners. Prison should be reserved for violent offenders that are a danger to society.
This brings up a couple of policies. The first is the legalization of marijuana. I personally don't really have an opinion either way since it won't have any affect on me. The biggest caveat for me is if it's made legal, then employers should still be given the right to not hire or to fire someone for it's use.
Regarding privatization of the prison system, I believe that should be an issue for the states rather than the federal government with the exception of federal prisons. As far as federal prisons go, either way they are going to be staffed by non-government employees and as we all know, private industry does the job better than the government.
Both most importantly advocate auditing the private federal reserve, abolishing the irs, and changing the tax code to a consumption tax instead of production tax.
I am in agreement with this.
Ron was popular for being consistent and ahead of the curve for decades. Ron wasn't popular when warning about the housing crisis in the earl part of the decade, or the financial ramifications we where facing in the future during the 90s. Rand is trying to find that middle ground to accomplish change but it's a hard line to walk.
Ron Paul was not the only one warning about the impending housing bubble.
I would vote for Rand over any democrat. He would be the only republican I could vote for. Bout a 0% chance he gets the republican nomination tho.