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Quote:This is an example of ignorance and why people get "hacked".  I would NEVER advise anyone to go to a Starbucks, Barnes & Nobel, etc. to use their Wifi.  It doesn't matter if it's a laptop computer or a cell phone.  It's not a matter of IF someone intercepts your activity, it's just a matter of WHEN.

 

Most people that use these kinds of "hot spots" have been breached, but they don't have anything "interesting" for a hacker.  The "small time script kiddie" might steal your data if you're stupid enough to access your bank accounts.  Most of the time they just want the machine, and they will get it.

 

Later, if your machine is on the internet, they have more control than most people think.

 

Yea, I'll be fine.  You probably also think It's crazy that I think anti-virus software is pointless for personal use.  I know enough about computers and security to feel comfortable with how I use them.  I woudln't do banking or purches on a public wifi.  But your position is pretty absurd.  I've heard all kinds of rhetoric from security people that when they say something like "without disclosing too much information" I'm thinking yea you should probably disclose that information. Explain to me how it's "easy" for a script kiddie to freely breach your computer.  Explain to me how it would be "easy" to bypass all encryption and security mesures that the script kiddie would have to bypass to access your computer.  Othewise, what's the point.  

 

Now off to get some more of that fast starbucks wifi...

Quote:I would rather things be hard wired for most of my computer work.  For one it's faster than Wifi, and two, it's just a little bit more secure.  Out in public, the only time I turn Wifi on is if I'm doing some kind of analysis.  In my opinion, if someone accesses their personal information (ie. bank accounts or otherwise) over a "public hot spot" they are opening themselves up to a huge risk.  I would also wager that most people that use "wireless" in their homes don't have things secured.

 

Call me paranoid or whatever, but broadcasting info out into the air is the easiest way to have that info compromised.

 

It's not like it's encrypted or anything...   :whistling:

 

Seriously, the days of people running unsecured wifi are over.  You'll have have to look very hard to find anyone running an unencrypted wifi.  Most of the time it's encrypted by default.  Both my AT&T modem and mobile hotspot came with a random default password that is unique to the device and printed directly on it .  Mr. script kiddie can intercept data all he wants, but does he have thousands of years and a supercomputer to decrypt it? 

 

btw, do you even use a cell phone, or is that too dangerous as well?

We've had Comcast in our house for many years now and we've always had issues with it. The internet will randomly slow down a lot and other times it will completely stop working and I have to reset the router and/or modem. Also, we have the router and modem upstairs on one side of the house in one of the bedrooms and even though my room is right down the hall, I only get 50-55% connection on my PS4 at all times. It's very frustrating. We have techs come out all the time to check things and they never do anything. We've asked them if we can move the modem and router to another part of the house and they always say they can't. I'm convinced that they just don't want to put the work in because it probably requires a lot of time or because it's difficult to do.

 

Also, we have some issues with the cable. It will get fuzzy or freeze up every once in a while, but that's not a big a deal as the internet issues.

 

I'm surprised we still even have Comcast, to be honest. They're horrible. I'd keep them for their cable, but I'd ditch their internet services and look elsewhere. I know a few people with Uverse and they say they have had no issues with it. Want to switch to them, but it's not my call.

 

Also, if Google Fiber ever makes its way to Miami, you bet I'm jumping on it.

Quote:It's not like it's encrypted or anything...   :whistling:

 

Seriously, the days of people running unsecured wifi are over.  You'll have have to look very hard to find anyone running an unencrypted wifi.  Most of the time it's encrypted by default.  Both my AT&T modem and mobile hotspot came with a random default password that is unique to the device and printed directly on it .  Mr. script kiddie can intercept data all he wants, but does he have thousands of years and a supercomputer to decrypt it? 

 

btw, do you even use a cell phone, or is that too dangerous as well?

 

If you encrypt your hard drive, then that's a good thing.

 

If you think that "the days of people running unsecured wifi are over" then you are seriously mislead.  In my own neighborhood I'm able to gain access to the internet from several "secured" wifi connections if I chose to do so.

 

If you think that your modem or wireless access point sends data encrypted, you are sadly mistaken.  If you think that the default password on your modem and/or wireless access point protects you, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Just because you might encrypt your hard drive, it doesn't mean that if you send a file via email or otherwise that said file is encrypted.  It's not unless you take steps to actually encrypt it and give the recipient the means to decrypt it.

 

Let me guess... you are either a Windows user that has some kind of "anti-virus" software running on your machine, or you are a mac user.

Quote:If you encrypt your hard drive, then that's a good thing.

 

If you think that "the days of people running unsecured wifi are over" then you are seriously mislead.  In my own neighborhood I'm able to gain access to the internet from several "secured" wifi connections if I chose to do so.

 

If you think that your modem or wireless access point sends data encrypted, you are sadly mistaken.  If you think that the default password on your modem and/or wireless access point protects you, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Just because you might encrypt your hard drive, it doesn't mean that if you send a file via email or otherwise that said file is encrypted.  It's not unless you take steps to actually encrypt it and give the recipient the means to decrypt it.

 

Let me guess... you are either a Windows user that has some kind of "anti-virus" software running on your machine, or you are a mac user.

 

Here you go again making off the wall statements without backing it up with further information.  So let me ask you this question.  If anything you say is true WHAT IS THE POINT OF WIFI SECURITY EVEN EXISTING.  Is the whole world mad?  

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the statement that wifi transmissions on secure networks is not encrypted is ridiculous.  Sure there are elaborite attacks on Wi-fi networks but most of the time it seems to involve cracking the wifi password.  Why would anyone try to crack a password if the data isn't encrypted in the first place??  Please elaborate on this.

 

After that, most people have wired internet connection, and all the traffic is pretty much identical security wise at that point (wireless network or not).  

 

OK, I don't know, maybe you know something we don't know.  But of course can't disclose that information.  

 

by the way, I run windows/linux with no anti-virus (for my personal computers).  I do encrypt certain data, but not my whole harddrive.  
 
 

Quote: 

Here you go again making off the wall statements without backing it up with further information.  So let me ask you this question.  If anything you say is true WHAT IS THE POINT OF WIFI SECURITY EVEN EXISTING.  Is the whole world mad?  

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the statement that wifi transmissions on secure networks is not encrypted is ridiculous.  Sure there are elaborite attacks on Wi-fi networks but most of the time it seems to involve cracking the wifi password.  Why would anyone try to crack a password if the data isn't encrypted in the first place??  Please elaborate on this.

 

After that, most people have wired internet connection, and all the traffic is pretty much identical security wise at that point (wireless network or not).  

 

OK, I don't know, maybe you know something we don't know.  But of course can't disclose that information.  

 

<div>by the way, I run windows/linux with no anti-virus (for my personal computers).  I do encrypt certain data, but not my whole harddrive.  
 

</div>

 

I believe that you have a misunderstanding regarding Wifi and encrypted transmissions.

 

Cracking the Wifi password is for the sole purpose of getting on the network itself, and it's not really that hard to do.  Once on the network, it's no longer a "secure" network.  Data being sent is not encrypted by default.  As an example.  Ever use FTP for uploading or downloading files?  If I'm on your network sniffing traffic, your username and password is sent in clear plain text.  I can also see where you are browsing, I can find out where you are accessing an email server, etc.

 

More importantly though, once on the network it's easy to conduct a MITM.  It doesn't really matter if the transmission is encrypted or not.

 

Think that free Wifi at Starbucks is safe to use?  Think again.

Quote:I believe that you have a misunderstanding regarding Wifi and encrypted transmissions.

 

Cracking the Wifi password is for the sole purpose of getting on the network itself, and it's not really that hard to do.  Once on the network, it's no longer a "secure" network.  Data being sent is not encrypted by default.  As an example.  Ever use FTP for uploading or downloading files?  If I'm on your network sniffing traffic, your username and password is sent in clear plain text.  I can also see where you are browsing, I can find out where you are accessing an email server, etc.

 

More importantly though, once on the network it's easy to conduct a MITM.  It doesn't really matter if the transmission is encrypted or not.

 

Think that free Wifi at Starbucks is safe to use?  Think again.

 

Your mixing everything up.  Being "on the network" means you have the correct security key, which means your password can be validated and you can decrypt the data correctly.   It's the same thing.   On a secure network, the data is encrypted.  Every packet.  THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF IT.

 

You could decrypt the data with any security key but unless you have the right one, the output is just garbage.  The key is a hash of a password string.  Getting "on the network" is just validating that you have the correct key and can decrypt the data correctly. This is done by comparing the hash of the entered password string plus an arbitrary string with a stored key that was generated with the actual password and an arbitrary string.  I'm not even pretending to be some kind of expert on encryption, but this is the  most basic explanation of how encryption ususally seems to work.  

 

The stuff about FTP is irrelevant.  That's like saying a wired ethernet connection is not secure if a hacker is plugged into your switch.

 

Which leads me back to yet another statement of you saying cracking the password is easy.  How is it easy?  The only way it's easy (as far as I know) is if the password itself is stupid, or if you use a bad encryption scheme.  But you didn't even mention anything about password strength or type of encryption, so i'm assuming you're saying ANY wifi password is easy to crack.  If that is so, please educate us so we can protect ourselves, instead of just saying don't use WIFI because it's unsafe for reasons you can't disclose.  You should also contact all the million businesses worldwide who are perfectly fine with using WIFI.

 

As far as the WIFI at starbucks being safe.  It sorta is.  I may be even more paranoid that I should be by avoiding doing banking or purchases there.  That stuff is always encrypted through https. Anything a legit website thinks is sensitive information goes through https.  So even that is encrypted.

 

But seriously, why even hack these people.  All their information is on facebook anyway.   :thumbsup:

Quote:Your mixing everything up.  Being "on the network" means you have the correct security key, which means your password can be validated and you can decrypt the data correctly.   It's the same thing.   On a secure network, the data is encrypted.  Every packet.  THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF IT.

 

You could decrypt the data with any security key but unless you have the right one, the output is just garbage.  The key is a hash of a password string.  Getting "on the network" is just validating that you have the correct key and can decrypt the data correctly. This is done by comparing the hash of the entered password string plus an arbitrary string with a stored key that was generated with the actual password and an arbitrary string.  I'm not even pretending to be some kind of expert on encryption, but this is the  most basic explanation of how encryption ususally seems to work.  

 

The stuff about FTP is irrelevant.  That's like saying a wired ethernet connection is not secure if a hacker is plugged into your switch.

 

Which leads me back to yet another statement of you saying cracking the password is easy.  How is it easy?  The only way it's easy (as far as I know) is if the password itself is stupid, or if you use a bad encryption scheme.  But you didn't even mention anything about password strength or type of encryption, so i'm assuming you're saying ANY wifi password is easy to crack.  If that is so, please educate us so we can protect ourselves, instead of just saying don't use WIFI because it's unsafe for reasons you can't disclose.  You should also contact all the million businesses worldwide who are perfectly fine with using WIFI.

 

As far as the WIFI at starbucks being safe.  It sorta is.  I may be even more paranoid that I should be by avoiding doing banking or purchases there.  That stuff is always encrypted through https. Anything a legit website thinks is sensitive information goes through https.  So even that is encrypted.

 

But seriously, why even hack these people.  All their information is on facebook anyway.   :thumbsup:

 

LOL, I think you and I are thinking about two different things.  Let me see if I can clear it up.

 

First of all, encryption is about securing data such as a file, a hard drive (the files stored on it), a password or the means of transmission.

 

It's also important to understand that a Wifi access point does send data to a hardwired modem at some point, and yes, that is somewhat "encrypted".  It's all about gaining access to the network.  Someone hacking a computer via Wifi isn't intercepting the radio transmission going over the air, they are intercepting the traffic that is on the network (which eventually goes to a wired connection somewhere).

 

An average home network with Wifi is not a "secure" or "encrypted" network.  The same can be said regarding public Wifi "hot spots".  The only "security" or "encryption" involved is being able to gain access to the network.  While yes, the radio transmission from your laptop to your wireless router/modem is encrypted, but once it reaches the network it is not (in most cases).  Think of it this way, your wireless connection to the router/modem is the same thing as plugging a cable into the same router/modem.  All network traffic flows through that router/modem.

 

Most wireless modems are protected using a certain scheme, usually either WEP or WPA/WPA2.  Anyone that uses WEP opens themselves up more so than if they use WPA/WPA2.  You do bring up a good point regarding password strength.  A vast majority of computer users choose weak passwords out of "convenience".  You also bring up another very important point regarding social media.  It's far too easy to find out information about a target by looking at facebook, instagram, linkedin, etc..  I would bet that most users on this very message board have passwords related to family, pets, hobbies or important dates in their lives.  All of this information can be found online pretty easily.

 

I would suggest if you really want to learn more, download Kali.  The tools are all right there for anyone wishing to learn about this kind of thing.  Cracking a Wifi password is pretty easy and once you do that, then any computer or appliance connected to said network is right in front of you.

 

As far as the millions of businesses worldwide who use Wifi, they are not immune to getting hacked.  It's not the Wifi that does it, it's all about getting into their network.

 

Yes people need to protect themselves, but the danger is not that someone is going to steal from them directly.  What a hacker uses people's machines for is to do other things such as mining bitcoins or making them part of a DDoS attack.  Identity theft doesn't happen because a person broke into your computer.  It happens because they broke into a network that you happen to do business with.

Quote:Your mixing everything up.  Being "on the network" means you have the correct security key, which means your password can be validated and you can decrypt the data correctly.   It's the same thing.   On a secure network, the data is encrypted.  Every packet.  THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF IT.

 

You could decrypt the data with any security key but unless you have the right one, the output is just garbage.  The key is a hash of a password string.  Getting "on the network" is just validating that you have the correct key and can decrypt the data correctly. This is done by comparing the hash of the entered password string plus an arbitrary string with a stored key that was generated with the actual password and an arbitrary string.  I'm not even pretending to be some kind of expert on encryption, but this is the  most basic explanation of how encryption ususally seems to work.  

 

The stuff about FTP is irrelevant.  That's like saying a wired ethernet connection is not secure if a hacker is plugged into your switch.

 

Which leads me back to yet another statement of you saying cracking the password is easy.  How is it easy?  The only way it's easy (as far as I know) is if the password itself is stupid, or if you use a bad encryption scheme.  But you didn't even mention anything about password strength or type of encryption, so i'm assuming you're saying ANY wifi password is easy to crack.  If that is so, please educate us so we can protect ourselves, instead of just saying don't use WIFI because it's unsafe for reasons you can't disclose.  You should also contact all the million businesses worldwide who are perfectly fine with using WIFI.

 

As far as the WIFI at starbucks being safe.  It sorta is.  I may be even more paranoid that I should be by avoiding doing banking or purchases there.  That stuff is always encrypted through https. Anything a legit website thinks is sensitive information goes through https.  So even that is encrypted.

 

But seriously, why even hack these people.  All their information is on facebook anyway.   :thumbsup:

 

Great info.

Most public wifi networks are fairly secure with client isolation and various security protocols. Be sure that websites where you enter any info into, uses https.

The biggest security threat to wireless connections to public hotspots are rogue access points

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_twin_..._networks)

 

http://www.rt.com/news/222891-pirate-hac...e-network/

 

Hard to detect and a massive pain for network admins. However, https still keeps you secure.

 

And yes even knowing that my security likely wont be compromised on public hotspots, I will not login into any websites that would have or use sensitive data. The paranoia is too strong.

Quote:LOL, I think you and I are thinking about two different things.  Let me see if I can clear it up.

 

First of all, encryption is about securing data such as a file, a hard drive (the files stored on it), a password or the means of transmission.

 

It's also important to understand that a Wifi access point does send data to a hardwired modem at some point, and yes, that is somewhat "encrypted".  It's all about gaining access to the network.  Someone hacking a computer via Wifi isn't intercepting the radio transmission going over the air, they are intercepting the traffic that is on the network (which eventually goes to a wired connection somewhere).

 

In you're scenario, they've cracked the password, so they have the actuall password to your network.  I've never in any way said your data was safe under this scenario.  WIFI security has already failed at this point.  If they had the encryption key they wouldn't even need to connect to your network.  We're just talking about two ways to do the same thing.  If they have the password, of course it's not secure.  

 

Quote:An average home network with Wifi is not a "secure" or "encrypted" network.  The same can be said regarding public Wifi "hot spots".  The only "security" or "encryption" involved is being able to gain access to the network.  While yes, the radio transmission from your laptop to your wireless router/modem is encrypted, but once it reaches the network it is not (in most cases).  Think of it this way, your wireless connection to the router/modem is the same thing as plugging a cable into the same router/modem.  All network traffic flows through that router/modem.

 

That's what I've been saying.  WIFI encryption is only about safely transmitting data between the router to the device.  That is the only possible vulnerability that makes it different from a wired connection.  And WIFI encryption is not just designed to prevent network access, it HAS to encrypt the actual signal.  If it didn't do this, it wouldn't matter if they had access to your hotspot.  

 

 

Quote:Most wireless modems are protected using a certain scheme, usually either WEP or WPA/WPA2.  Anyone that uses WEP opens themselves up more so than if they use WPA/WPA2.  You do bring up a good point regarding password strength.  A vast majority of computer users choose weak passwords out of "convenience".  You also bring up another very important point regarding social media.  It's far too easy to find out information about a target by looking at facebook, instagram, linkedin, etc..  I would bet that most users on this very message board have passwords related to family, pets, hobbies or important dates in their lives.  All of this information can be found online pretty easily.

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">I personally worry about privacy way more than security, and companies like Acxiom who try to secretly keep track of everything you do "for marketing purposes".

<p style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);"> 

Quote:In you're scenario, they've cracked the password, so they have the actuall password to your network.  I've never in any way said your data was safe under this scenario.  WIFI security has already failed at this point.  If they had the encryption key they wouldn't even need to connect to your network.  We're just talking about two ways to do the same thing.  If they have the password, of course it's not secure.  

<div> 
 
 

That's what I've been saying.  WIFI encryption is only about safely transmitting data between the router to the device.  That is the only possible vulnerability that makes it different from a wired connection.  And WIFI encryption is not just designed to prevent network access, it HAS to encrypt the actual signal.  If it didn't do this, it wouldn't matter if they had access to your hotspot.  

 

 

 

I personally worry about privacy way more than security, and companies like Acxiom who try to secretly keep track of everything you do "for marketing purposes".

 

</div>

 

Regarding your first point, that's what I have been trying to say.  It's not about "intercepting" or "gathering" anything over the air (Wifi) it's about the network.  Once you get inside an "internal network" the possibilities are pretty much unlimited.

 

I have both seen and experienced this myself (disclaimer, I have only done this with permission from the owners of breached systems).

 

Bottom line though, the average person needs to worry more about people taking control of their machines to do other things.  A hacker isn't going to go after someone to do identity theft or something like that.  They only want to take control of the machine.

 

What aids in preventing something like this?  My first suggestion is to not use Windows or Internet Explorer.  It's not because I personally loath both, but the fact that both are primary attack vectors.  If a person does use these products, I recommend updating them as often as possible.

 

Next I would advise people to be very careful about what you click on and where you go on the web.  You get so many warnings regarding not clicking on links that you get in email (good advice) but people don't realize that simply going to a website can infect their computer (mainly Windows users).

 

The next best thing to do is use your computer with non-administrative privileges (this is something that I would guess 98% of Windows users don't do).  Most Windows users use their computer with administrative privileges, and if somebody does in fact hack you, they have the same rights on your machine.  That means that they pretty much have control of the machine.  Linux users and MAC users are somewhat protected from this, though the trend is to give a "default" user "sudo" privileges that makes them just as vulnerable.

 

Once again, I've seen attacks on all operating systems, but the Windows systems are the easiest.  It doesn't really matter if they are connected via Wifi or if the have a "hard wire" connection.  It's all about getting on the network.

Quote:Regarding your first point, that's what I have been trying to say.  It's not about "intercepting" or "gathering" anything over the air (Wifi) it's about the network.  Once you get inside an "internal network" the possibilities are pretty much unlimited.

 

I have both seen and experienced this myself (disclaimer, I have only done this with permission from the owners of breached systems).

 

Bottom line though, the average person needs to worry more about people taking control of their machines to do other things.  A hacker isn't going to go after someone to do identity theft or something like that.  They only want to take control of the machine.

 

What aids in preventing something like this?  My first suggestion is to not use Windows or Internet Explorer.  It's not because I personally loath both, but the fact that both are primary attack vectors.  If a person does use these products, I recommend updating them as often as possible.

 

Next I would advise people to be very careful about what you click on and where you go on the web.  You get so many warnings regarding not clicking on links that you get in email (good advice) but people don't realize that simply going to a website can infect their computer (mainly Windows users).

 

The next best thing to do is use your computer with non-administrative privileges (this is something that I would guess 98% of Windows users don't do).  Most Windows users use their computer with administrative privileges, and if somebody does in fact hack you, they have the same rights on your machine.  That means that they pretty much have control of the machine.  Linux users and MAC users are somewhat protected from this, though the trend is to give a "default" user "sudo" privileges that makes them just as vulnerable.

 

Once again, I've seen attacks on all operating systems, but the Windows systems are the easiest.  It doesn't really matter if they are connected via Wifi or if the have a "hard wire" connection.  It's all about getting on the network.

 

OK, that makes sense.   

 

I don't really like Windows either, I just use it just because I'm kinda stuck with it.

 

The positive thing is that big companies will do everything within their power to prevent people from being compromised in any way.  The last thing they want is people afraid to use computers and go on the internet.  It's like an ongoing battle.  Hackers and reckless users vs. big coorporations and IT guys.

Quote:Great info.

Most public wifi networks are fairly secure with client isolation and various security protocols. Be sure that websites where you enter any info into, uses https.

The biggest security threat to wireless connections to public hotspots are rogue access points

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_twin_..._networks)

 

http://www.rt.com/news/222891-pirate-hac...e-network/

 

Hard to detect and a massive pain for network admins. However, https still keeps you secure.

 

And yes even knowing that my security likely wont be compromised on public hotspots, I will not login into any websites that would have or use sensitive data. The paranoia is too strong.

 

Yea, I sometimes wonder about fake hotspots.  If I'm just doing some browsing I'm probably choosing my phones mobile hotspot over a random hotspot I've never used before. Starbucks has fast internet though.  And I don't have wired internet, so in mobile data dollars I probably download like $300 worth of data a month there.  

I have had Comcast/XFINITY for years and upgraded to their X1 TV service this past year and it does work so much better than others...  The internet speed I get with multiple devices running is just fine...  I did test speed with its latest increase and got a hard wired 90MB speed...   Hooking up through my 5MHZ router at home I am getting 60-70 MB speed which is just fine...

 

Glad their are no limits since the 4K streams from Netflix and Amazon use a fair amount of data...

 

On uploads, also little problem..  My Slingbox service from my home TV has no issues when I have solid speed on the receiving side...  I have not upgraded to the newer Slingboxes that send HD streams

50 Mbps!?!?!? I'm stuck with 10 on a perfect day!

Quote:50 Mbps!?!?!? I'm stuck with 10 on a perfect day!

10 here too. It's the bunker penalty!

Quote:I can't speak on the tv aspect, but 75mbps is solid, though it depends on what you want.  If I remember correctly Netflix needs 3-5 mbps for hd, so you'll have a lot of overhead to work with if you're concerned about streaming.  

 

I currently have the "blast" or whatever it's called, was supposed to be only 50 mbps, but I get 90ish, datacaps being suspended is a plus also. 

 



 

Also ATT is probably the worst company I've ever dealt with personally, run away, you won't be sorry. 

 

Why is upload always slower than Download?

Quote:Why is upload always slower than Download?

How often do you need to upload something that fast?

Quote:75 down is great for internet needs. Be sure to buy your own modem and not the Comcast rental. I recommend the Motorola sb6121 or sb6141. I only have their most basic cable plan for local channels, but friends have the full HD packages and their only complaints are sluggishness from the set top/dvr boxes

The new Comcast/Xfinity X1 packages are great and speedy..  Can record 5 at a time and watch...    Also, XFINITY gives you access remotely to almost everything you get on service...      With my package I get 90 MB DL speed which easily handles my household..  Also handles 4K streams on Netflix and Amazon..