Jaguars vs. Colts
I thought I would start with the consensus Division top dog….
I need someone to compare position by position for us. This will give us (me) a fair look at the Jaguars roster compared to another team.
For example: Bortles vs. Luck = Luck
But what about Yeldon vs Gore? Robinson vs Johnson? You get the idea.
How does our lineup compare to the Colts?
Keep in mind, 4-3 vs 3-4 is tough to match up, but do your best.
The projected lineup came from Todayspigskin.com, because it’s the first one I found, and this is supposed to be simple, fun and more importantly, fill the void we are in.
http://www.todayspigskin.com/afc-today/a...lis-colts/
QB Blake Bortles QB Andrew Luck
RB T.J. Yeldon RB Frank Gore
WR Allen Robinson WR Andre Johnson
WR Marqise Lee WR T.Y. Hilton
TE Julius Thomas TE Dwayne Allen
TE Marcedes Lewis TE Coby Fleener
LT Luke Joeckel LT Anthony Castonzo
LG Zane Beadles G: Jack Mewhort
C Stefen Wisniewski C: Jonotthan Harrison
RG Brandon Linder G: Todd Herremans
RT Jeremy Parnell RT Gosder Cherilus
DE Tyson Alualu DE: Arthur Jones
DT Jared Odrick NT: Josh Chapman
DT Sen’Derrick Marks DE: Kendall Langford
DE Chris Clemons OLB Trent Cole
OLB Dan Skuta ILB D’Qwell Jackson
MLB Paul Posluszny ILB Jerrell Freeman
OLB Telvin Smith OLB Robert Mathis
CB Demetrius McCray CB: Vontae Davis
SS Jonathan Cyprien SS: Mike Adams
FS Josh Evans FS: Dwight Lowery
CB Dwayne Gratz CB: Greg Toler
I don't believe Alualu, Evans, or Gratz will be starters this year.
Odrick will start at end over Alualu and Miller was start at DT
Andrew Luck >>>Blake Bortles
The rest is just background noise.
Quote:Andrew Luck >>>Blake Bortles
The rest is just background noise.
I tried to make this case: There is not much of a difference it terms of roster between the two teams when comparing the 2012 Colts to the 2014 Jaguars. When Luck was a rookie, he played with Reggie Wayne, and had Robert Mathis on defense -- but aside from those two potential HOF players, the rest of the team was very much in flux. The O-line was horrible, leading to Luck being the most hit QB. The running backs were Donald Brown and Vick Ballard. The receivers (aside from Wayne) consisted of rookies T.Y. Hilton, Lavon Brazill, and Griff Whalen. Donnie Avery was a veteran FA addition. The TE's Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener were rookies. That team very much resembled the 2014 Jaguars. A lot of young potential talent. The overall defensive ranking was at 20th or below.
The difference was that Luck was able to rise above all of those challenges and lead a somewhat talent-less Colts team to the playoffs. Some may point to Bruce Arians as a big difference but let me point out that Roethlisberger was beaten to hell because of Arian's down-field passing system and Arians was released by Pittsburgh because of it. As mentioned earlier, Luck was hit a lot because of poor O-line play and Arian's system. Luck was beaten to hell, and in Arizona, so was Palmer (injured), and Drew Stanton (injured).
All this is to say that despite all of the criticism Luck receives, he may not get enough credit for all the good that he has done. Imagine if Bortles led the Jaguars to an 11-5 season. Bortles has faced many of the same obstacles his rookie year.
Andrew Luck is a couple of retirements away from being the best QB in the NFL. There's no competition there.
If I had to build a starting lineup out of the players you gave me there (with a couple of additions for guys who should be on that list but aren't), it'd look like this:
QB - Luck
RB - Yeldon
WR - Robinson
WR - Hilton
TE - Thomas
TE - Fleener
LT - Castonzo
LG - Mewhort
C - Wisniewski
RG - Linder
RT - Cherilus
LE - Odrick (will start over Alualu)
DT - Marks
DT - A. Jones (moved inside from end; Colts play a 3-4)
RE - Clemons
LOLB - Cole
MLB - Jackson
OLB - T. Smith
CB - V. Davis
SS - Cyprien
FS - S. Brown (will start over Evans)
CB - Colvin (will start over Gratz and McCray)
McCray was the lone long term productive starter in 2014. I do see Colvin as the Nickel Back and pushing for that starter's positions but it won't be McCray's position...
IJS...
NH3...
Neither will be...
NH3...
Here is my attempt on offense
luck
hilton
AR15
montcrief
thomas
castonzo
Beadle
Wiz
Linder
Parnell
(Yes the whole jags o line plus Anthony)
Defense I'd run a 3-4 of
Odrick miller/jones marks on the line
Telvin and Cole as OLB, POZ and Jackson IILB
Davis and McCray outside, Covington nickel
lowery and Adams at safety with cyp as a backup on both.
Colts probably have the advantage in all 3 ST spots but at P/K it's a tossup.
Bryan Anger > Entire Colts Roster
Quote:I tried to make this case: There is not much of a difference it terms of roster between the two teams when comparing the 2012 Colts to the 2014 Jaguars. When Luck was a rookie, he played with Reggie Wayne, and had Robert Mathis on defense -- but aside from those two potential HOF players, the rest of the team was very much in flux. The O-line was horrible, leading to Luck being the most hit QB. The running backs were Donald Brown and Vick Ballard. The receivers (aside from Wayne) consisted of rookies T.Y. Hilton, Lavon Brazill, and Griff Whalen. Donnie Avery was a veteran FA addition. The TE's Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener were rookies. That team very much resembled the 2014 Jaguars. A lot of young potential talent. The overall defensive ranking was at 20th or below.
The difference was that Luck was able to rise above all of those challenges and lead a somewhat talent-less Colts team to the playoffs. Some may point to Bruce Arians as a big difference but let me point out that Roethlisberger was beaten to hell because of Arian's down-field passing system and Arians was released by Pittsburgh because of it. As mentioned earlier, Luck was hit a lot because of poor O-line play and Arian's system. Luck was beaten to hell, and in Arizona, so was Palmer (injured), and Drew Stanton (injured).
All this is to say that despite all of the criticism Luck receives, he may not get enough credit for all the good that he has done. Imagine if Bortles led the Jaguars to an 11-5 season. Bortles has faced many of the same obstacles his rookie year.
I agree about Luck being the reason for the success of the colts, because their roster isn't significantly better than the Jaguars. Vontae Davis is a decent corner, Ty Hilton is a decent WR, and Mathis is still a decent pass rusher, but without Luck none of them would be having the success they do.
Mathis wouldn't be as successful as a pass rusher if the colts weren't playing from ahead.
Davis wouldn't have as many chances at INTs if the colts pass rush weren't able to just rush the passer.
Ty Hilton would be a good player, but not nearly the statistical wonder he's been without a top tier QB throwing him the ball.
Of course the biggest advantage to Luck and the colts so far is that the rest of the division spent the last 5+ years like a headless chicken doing a dreadful job at talent acquisition.
If the texans had been smart enough to take Russell Wilson or Bortles that story could be changing right now, as the rest of their roster is good enough to compete with the colts if they had a QB, but as of right now the colts still have no realistic challengers unless the Jaguars step up this season.
So what I'm hearing (or want to hear) is that on paper in July….the 2015 roster looks competitive. QB being the major difference at this time, but for the rest of the positions, perhaps even Advantage Jaguars.
I'm not sure we would have said the same thing in 2014, 2013,…
Quote:So what I'm hearing (or want to hear) is that on paper in July….the 2015 roster looks competitive. QB being the major difference at this time, but for the rest of the positions, perhaps even Advantage Jaguars.
I'm not sure we would have said the same thing in 2014, 2013,…
You're overstating the "competitiveness" of the roster, right now it has some promise, but it's not at a point where it can be seen as competitive on its own. You can't count on having an elite QB like Luck to carry a team, and that's really what everyone is saying, an elite QB carries a team. If Bortles breaks out and turns into a true elite QB that can carry the team then the Jaguars have a legit shot at getting blown out by the pats in the playoffs just like the colts did.
I'm not sure I'm overstating anything. I'm simply trying to determine if the Jaguars roster is comparable to that of any other NFL team.
It is difficult to not be bias. So by looking at position groups and comparing to other teams, I can (hope to) get a more realistic view of our roster.
I'm not trying to determine wins or pro bowls.
From the limited feedback we have seen, it appears (again on paper and in July) that the Jaguars have a roster that looks similar to that of the colts. Better at some positions not better at others.
Also Again…I'm not sure we would have said that in 2013 or 2014.
It’s obvious that some positions have a much greater impact on the overall performance of a team, i.e. Quarterback. But that wasn’t my point.
That said, let’s compare rosters to a middle of the pack team. Miami went 8-8 last year. We would have been thrilled at 8-8. BTW we play the in week 2. At Home :yes:
How do we compare to this projected roster (from
http://www.todayspig.com)
QB: Ryan Tannehill
RB: Lamar Miller
WR: DeVante Parker
WR: Jarvis Landry
WR: Kenny Stills
TE: Jordan Cameron
LT: Branden Albert
LG: Jamil Douglas
C: Mike Pouncey
RG: Billy Turner
RT: Ja’Wuan James
DE: Cameron Wake
DT: Ndamukong Suh
DT: Earl Mitchell
DE: Olivier Vernon
SLB: Chris McCain
MLB: Koa Misi
WLB: Jelani Jenkins
CB: Brent Grimes
CB: Jamar Taylor
S: Louis Delmas
S: Reshad Jones
Quote:
DE Tyson Alualu DE: Arthur Jones
DT Jared Odrick NT: Josh Chapman
DT Sen’Derrick Marks DE: Kendall Langford
DE Chris Clemons OLB Trent Cole
OLB Dan Skuta ILB D’Qwell Jackson
MLB Paul Posluszny ILB Jerrell Freeman
OLB Telvin Smith OLB Robert Mathis
CB Demetrius McCray CB: Vontae Davis
SS Jonathan Cyprien SS: Mike Adams
FS Josh Evans FS: Dwight Lowery
CB Dwayne Gratz CB: Greg Toler
One thing that stands out is how old the Colts defense is. Alot of starters over the age of 30. Old and slow is not a good thing in the modern NFL.