Just another example of not thinking things through.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trum...li=BBnbfcL
BAGHDAD — Reverberations from President Donald Trump's travel ban and other stances are threatening to undermine future U.S.-Iraqi security cooperation, rattling a key alliance that over the past two years has slowly beaten back the Islamic State group.
Iraq's prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, has sought to contain any backlash from public anger sparked by Trump's executive order banning Iraqis from traveling to the U.S. Also breeding resentment and suspicion are Trump's repeated statements that the Americans should have taken Iraq's oil and his hard line against Iran, a close ally of al-Abadi's government.
<span>Iraqi anger at Washington comes at a crucial juncture in a long and often contentious relationship. U.S.-backed Iraqi forces are about to launch an assault aimed at retaking the western half of Mosul that is still under Islamic State control. If Mosul is completely secured, it largely would break the extremist group's "caliphate" in the country.</span>
How is it every time that a republican advocates enhanced security we get blamed for starting a war that's 1400 years old?
Cool story bro. They're just a JV team. Just ask your messiah.
Well then, maybe we pull back all financing and military aid. Let them try and take back their country on their own. FYI, that country doesn't like us anyway. They only deal for the money. I challenge you to look up how many U.S. contractor and Military Liason deaths since the end of the "war". Also research how many corrupt Iraqi civilian and military leadership positions with direct ties to a terror organization. The leadership that was allowed to visit the US is just pissed they can't go shopping, drink and hit the strip clubs!
Quote:How is it every time that a republican advocates enhanced security we get blamed for starting a war that's 1400 years old?
I don't remember terrorism becoming some huge global thing until the 21st century.
Quote:I don't remember terrorism becoming some huge global thing until the 21st century.
Been around for millennia. Well before modern states. The French originally coined a phrase for it in the late 1700's.
Quote:Been around for millennia. Well before modern states. The French originally coined a phrase for it in the late 1700's.
World war 1 was started on a terrorist plot.
Quote:World war 1 was started on a terrorist plot.
But yet some would have you believe this is some new fad. Just even a basic knowledge of history would go a long way!
Quote:But yet some would have you believe this is some new fad. Just even a basic knowledge of history would go a long way!
Ya I'm a huge fan of history, if you ever want to enjoy history check out Dan Carlins podcast hardcore history. He made me understand the clusterflock that is ww1.
Another good one if you want to understand the Iraq puzzle and how we got there is a pbs documentary called Losing Iraq.
I think the biggest problem people have with their opinions is that they look at all historical events with hindsight. If you really want to understand why things when down the way they did you have to look at the decisions leading up to it and the information available at the time.
My gfs hyper religious father who wanted to start the great Muslim debate with me kept saying to me we should have never been there, which is true in some senses. But if you don't go off the info you have and deemed to be good at the time than you failing to protect your citizens, if you don't go in you are also being Okay with Hussain atrocities including his son running a Rape Palace.
Apologies if this is starting to turn into a book,
He also said Christians that murdered people (say like the conquistadors) were not real christians due to the way they acted. I was telling him you can use the same argument towards radical muslims. At some point you can't argue with these people because they are stuck on 100% I'm right mode.
Islam as a whole needs to be fixed. The widespread beliefs that...
- woman are inferior
- homosexuality deserves punishment
- murder is justified if its someone who thinks differently
- other religions are inferior
Sure the bombing of these places and 15+ year occupancy doesn't help, neither does bringing them all into this country where they do not assimilate well. I don't see how a travel ban hurts a fight against a group, if anything it restricts that group from escaping to the United States.
Quote:I don't remember terrorism becoming some huge global thing until the 21st century.
The thing is, I don't recall Marty or the article saying that Republicans were responsible for the war. Only for making the fight harder.
Quote:Ya I'm a huge fan of history, if you ever want to enjoy history check out Dan Carlins podcast hardcore history. He made me understand the clusterflock that is ww1.
Another good one if you want to understand the Iraq puzzle and how we got there is a pbs documentary called Losing Iraq.
I think the biggest problem people have with their opinions is that they look at all historical events with hindsight. If you really want to understand why things when down the way they did you have to look at the decisions leading up to it and the information available at the time.
My gfs hyper religious father who wanted to start the great Muslim debate with me kept saying to me we should have never been there, which is true in some senses. But if you don't go off the info you have and deemed to be good at the time than you failing to protect your citizens, if you don't go in you are also being Okay with Hussain atrocities including his son running a Rape Palace.
Apologies if this is starting to turn into a book,
He also said Christians that murdered people (say like the conquistadors) were not real christians due to the way they acted. I was telling him you can use the same argument towards radical muslims. At some point you can't argue with these people because they are stuck on 100% I'm right mode.
Islam as a whole needs to be fixed. The widespread beliefs that...
- woman are inferior
- homosexuality deserves punishment
- murder is justified if its someone who thinks differently
- other religions are inferior
Sure the bombing of these places and 15+ year occupancy doesn't help, neither does bringing them all into this country where they do not assimilate well. I don't see how a travel ban hurts a fight against a group, if anything it restricts that group from escaping to the United States.
Oh, there is a long line of blame and reasoning going way back. When you dig deep into history, it really is scary how often events repeat. What we see in the Middle East and Europe is like a broken record of the past, albeit with some twists. The quote, "those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it", is one of the most profound. Thanks for your response!
Quote:The thing is, I don't recall Marty or the article saying that Republicans were responsible for the war. Only for making the fight harder.
Pretty sure it doesn't point to any one political party, but it does reinforce what has been said around here time and time again. Regardless of what the US gives or withholds, these folks don't like us and sit on pins and needles just looking for an excuse to pounce. They will fight amongst their religious sects, but will join forces in an instant to kill westerners. The article is all fluff and the meat is the last quote, "If the U.S. takes military action against Iran, we will return the favor," Jaafar al-Husseini said. "We have all the details of (U.S. troop) movements. They are right under our eyes."
uh oh. better open the borders back up or somebody might get upset
The left is the epitome of not thinking things through... it's why the situation there is what it is.
Bush warned this would happen if we were to withdraw without a plan.
Well, here we are.
The "withdraw" was incomplete and "policy" continues to be confused at best.
What kind of person feels so entitled that a temporary travel ban to another country undermines their alliance with that country?
Quote:Well then, maybe we pull back all financing and military aid. Let them try and take back their country on their own. FYI, that country doesn't like us anyway.
So you don't want to fight ISIS any more? I thought that was one of Trump's prime campaign promises- that he would defeat ISIS.
Quote:So you don't want to fight ISIS any more? I thought that was one of Trump's prime campaign promises- that he would defeat ISIS.
Yeah and I thought Obama promised to pull out of Afghanistan, Iraq, reduce European forces, and close Guantanamo. Fight an ideology? When ISIS is defeated, what named ideology is next? The issue is tied to lack of states organization and regional religious extremism that is centuries old. What is new is the US actually showing it attention. It would be easy to pull back from Europe and the Middle East to say we will worry about our little chunk of land. Unfortunately, globalization doesn't allow for this. Crap will eventually flow to our borders.
I'm all for assisting and providing legitimate governments the tools to fight their own battles, but I'm not for making it our own until our liberties are challenged. We are now at an unfortunate crossroads where we either go full bore or get away from it completely. At this point, it is not a Clinton thing, a Bush thing, an Obama thing, or even a Trump thing. It is doing what is right for the US and assisting to uphold simple rights of humanity. What I would honestly like is the political showboating that has gone on the last 20 years plus to go away and become more hard line to avoid kicking the can down the road until that can is the size of a dumpster. This 10 strikes and pink lines policy crap has to go! Talk is cheap. Before you ask, I don't know what the answer for China, N.K, Iran, Libya, Yemen, or even Syria is at this point. All these places have been allowed to fester because the US is too afraid to piss someone off or escalation, which is absurd since it will happen eventually.
Quote:Pretty sure it doesn't point to any one political party, but it does reinforce what has been said around here time and time again. Regardless of what the US gives or withholds, these folks don't like us and sit on pins and needles just looking for an excuse to pounce. They will fight amongst their religious sects, but will join forces in an instant to kill westerners. The article is all fluff and the meat is the last quote, "If the U.S. takes military action against Iran, we will return the favor," Jaafar al-Husseini said. "We have all the details of (U.S. troop) movements. They are right under our eyes."
Well how much do they like Mexico? Seems they don't like us meddling all the time...I mean we armed Osama, took out Sadaam which had a destabilizing effect in the region and fueled more terrorism, took out Ghaddafi which further destabilized the region. Seems to me our military interventionist policy does more harm than good. The travel ban didn't make us any safer.
Quote:Well how much do they like Mexico? Seems they don't like us meddling all the time...I mean we armed Osama, took out Sadaam which had a destabilizing effect in the region and fueled more terrorism, took out Ghaddafi which further destabilized the region. Seems to me our military interventionist policy does more harm than good. The travel ban didn't make us any safer.
1400 years and he starts with bin laden? #snowflake
Quote:Well how much do they like Mexico? Seems they don't like us meddling all the time...I mean we armed Osama, took out Sadaam which had a destabilizing effect in the region and fueled more terrorism, took out Ghaddafi which further destabilized the region. Seems to me our military interventionist policy does more harm than good. The travel ban didn't make us any safer.
Who are you talking about liking or not liking Mexico? The CIA armed the factions against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Seems that worked to stop a 10-year war. Nobody armed Osama. Osama didn't come along until well after the mujahadeen broke into the Taliban and al-Qaida. In the late 80s he became the figure head and organizer to what is known as al-Qaida today. For its intent, arming the mujahadeen was successful. It did not change the climate of Afghanistan, it kept it status quo, which has always been crap.
I agree taking out Sadaam had a negative impact on Iraq, which was corrupt anyways. Should we have left him to his brutality? It was certainly a mistake to think the corrupt Iraq country would band together for democracy when they were never acclimated to making those types of choices or even having the ability to do so. They were not educated enough and it seems neither were we. To say it destabilized the whole region is ignorant. You just became newly aware of what had been.
Taking out Gaddafi was necessary just like Sadaam. In fact, they both came into power in almost identical ways. The difference is we wanted to take out Sadaam because he was such an evil dictator, whereas NATO was asked to take out Gaddafi to end his illegal reign. It was just part of and the end piece to the civil war or "Arab Spring". It did not give rise to.
So the common picture to all these places? They were already unstable countries before any interaction. We faulted in thinking they could control their own mess after our assistance. Additionally, extremist groups were preexisting and lying in wait for the opportunity.