It is up to the folks who do these jobs to make the effort to seek some sort of alternative employment or training. You can't force people to take the initiative but at a certain point it should appeal to their self interest to stay ahead of potential issues.

Coal miners didn't do that.  Factory workers didn't do that.  Steel workers didn't do that.   The loss of those jobs was completely predictable, and yet the people who stood to lose those jobs are now on unemployment, medicaid, and whatever other government help they can get.   Asking people to be forward-looking and get into another business is just asking too much of average people.  They always wind up unemployed with no other skills.  

In the future, there is little doubt that low-skilled workers are going to be replaced by technology and robotics.  There is absolutely no doubt about it.   AND, I would predict that there will be so many of these displaced workers that they will ask the government to redistribute wealth.  

It seems to me that we have to bend our conservative free-market principles just a little to stave off a movement to have the government confiscate wealth from working people and give it to the displaced.   We need to be forward thinking for a change and do something while it's easy and not wait for the time when doing something will be very hard.

It's up to the smart people to help out the dumb people before the dumb people rise up against the smart people.

But, that's just my opinion.  I'm interested in anyone else's opinion.

I live in the heart of coal country (WV). They offered job training and college to out of work miners. The vast majority of them passed on it in favor of government assistance. If it comes down to leaving where you were born to find work, they would rather stay where they are and live on the government dime. You can only do so much to help people who don't want to help themselves. 

The only way they could change this mentality is to have something like the Tennessee Valley Authority where people would have to move to where government supplied jobs are located or else they don't get benefits. Fat chance of this happening.

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Marty, the problem is you see yourself as one of the smart people who won't get displaced.  That is wishful thinking.  ALL careers are under "attack" by technology.  There will be algorithms taking the place of white-collar decision-makers at every level.  There will be surgical robots with encyclopedic knowledge, superior visual ability and much finer motor skills than any human.

Agreed. A lot of people don't think it's possible for a full-on technocratic takeover but it's definitely been in the works for decades ever since business owners realized the insane amount of profits that could be had.

By simply replacing human beings with machines that can work at an incredible rate of production. It's only been a matter of time as to when the A.I would get much, much more life like. It's a very dangerous situation. 

A lot has to be considered here. As more and more jobs dry up thanks to greed and technology. More civil unrest will rightfully spring up. This was inevitable. 

It's been predictable for decades as well. Back in the late 1970's and throughout the 1980's when movies like "They Live, "Terminator", "Network" and "1984" were coming to life. The masses and generations to come were being given a small glimpse of a future reality packaged up nice and neatly as fantasy or science-fiction. 

Now here it is in 2017. We're now talking about cars that drive themselves. Drones that deliver goods. The Government being busted for spying and stealing information right out of your home. Automated algorithms, self service centers and convenience all at your disposal through your phone through your fingertips. Future wars being fought not on the battlefield with guns and grenades but technological takeovers and machines eventually fighting in our place. 

Doesn't seem so crazy or science fiction or fantasy like anymore. It's starting to become a reality. And people should be concerned. The Baby Boomers and some of the early Generation X people won't have to worry about this so much. But millennials and Generation Z people will have to carry the heaviest of these issues down the road. 

And sadly most of them will be just fine and comfortable with it because they were born into it and molded by it. It's now the social norm to allow your freedoms and rights and your future to be completely dictated by Big Brother. It's okay for Corporate America to be inside your homes. It's cool that the United States of Advertising wants to make you into a Cyborg.

Just a bunch of pieces of meat with no eyes or brain matter to these people. Just a bunch of sheep. That's the world we now live in folks.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

---

Labor Jobs
Step 1 - export factory jobs to countries w/ cheaper labor rates
Step 2 - automate existing factories with robotic capabilities to take away existing jobs (see Carrier in Indiana)

IT & Customer Support Jobs
Step 1a - outsource jobs to offshore companies
Step 1b - bring in cheaper IT support from China & India via H-1B visas

.... i'm kind of glad i'm nearing retirement (~10 years away)

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Marty, the problem is you see yourself as one of the smart people who won't get displaced.  That is wishful thinking.  ALL careers are under "attack" by technology.  There will be algorithms taking the place of white-collar decision-makers at every level.  There will be surgical robots with encyclopedic knowledge, superior visual ability and much finer motor skills than any human.

Agreed. A lot of people don't think it's possible for a full-on technocratic takeover but it's definitely been in the works for decades ever since business owners realized the insane amount of profits that could be had.

By simply replacing human beings with machines that can work at an incredible rate of production. It's only been a matter of time as to when the A.I would get much, much more life like. It's a very dangerous situation. 

A lot has to be considered here. As more and more jobs dry up thanks to greed and technology. More civil unrest will rightfully spring up. This was inevitable. 

It's been predictable for decades as well. Back in the late 1970's and throughout the 1980's when movies like "They Live, "Terminator", "Network" and "1984" were coming to life. The masses and generations to come were being given a small glimpse of a future reality packaged up nice and neatly as fantasy or science-fiction. 

Now here it is in 2017. We're now talking about cars that drive themselves. Drones that deliver goods. The Government being busted for spying and stealing information right out of your home. Automated algorithms, self service centers and convenience all at your disposal through your phone through your fingertips. Future wars being fought not on the battlefield with guns and grenades but technological takeovers and machines eventually fighting in our place. 

Doesn't seem so crazy or science fiction or fantasy like anymore. It's starting to become a reality. And people should be concerned. The Baby Boomers and some of the early Generation X people won't have to worry about this so much. But millennials and Generation Z people will have to carry the heaviest of these issues down the road. 

And sadly most of them will be just fine and comfortable with it because they were born into it and molded by it. It's now the social norm to allow your freedoms and rights and your future to be completely dictated by Big Brother. It's okay for Corporate America to be inside your homes. It's cool that the United States of Advertising wants to make you into a Cyborg.

Just a bunch of pieces of meat with no eyes or brain matter to these people. Just a bunch of sheep. That's the world we now live in folks.

What you say is mostly true, but still, the question remains, what are we going to do about it?   We can pretty well predict which people will be the first to be displaced, so do we do anything, or just wait for them to rebel and come for the rest of us who still have either jobs or money, and demand that we support them?   You can be sure that that will happen, because that is what has happened throughout history when people are displaced from work.  They rise up and demand that somebody save them.  They aren't going to quietly go and starve. 

It's a completely predictable situation.

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You have to love the irony in the fact that the most replaceable people are asking for a higher hourly wage.

---

Agreed. A lot of people don't think it's possible for a full-on technocratic takeover but it's definitely been in the works for decades ever since business owners realized the insane amount of profits that could be had.

By simply replacing human beings with machines that can work at an incredible rate of production. It's only been a matter of time as to when the A.I would get much, much more life like. It's a very dangerous situation. 

A lot has to be considered here. As more and more jobs dry up thanks to greed and technology. More civil unrest will rightfully spring up. This was inevitable. 

It's been predictable for decades as well. Back in the late 1970's and throughout the 1980's when movies like "They Live, "Terminator", "Network" and "1984" were coming to life. The masses and generations to come were being given a small glimpse of a future reality packaged up nice and neatly as fantasy or science-fiction. 

Now here it is in 2017. We're now talking about cars that drive themselves. Drones that deliver goods. The Government being busted for spying and stealing information right out of your home. Automated algorithms, self service centers and convenience all at your disposal through your phone through your fingertips. Future wars being fought not on the battlefield with guns and grenades but technological takeovers and machines eventually fighting in our place. 

Doesn't seem so crazy or science fiction or fantasy like anymore. It's starting to become a reality. And people should be concerned. The Baby Boomers and some of the early Generation X people won't have to worry about this so much. But millennials and Generation Z people will have to carry the heaviest of these issues down the road. 

And sadly most of them will be just fine and comfortable with it because they were born into it and molded by it. It's now the social norm to allow your freedoms and rights and your future to be completely dictated by Big Brother. It's okay for Corporate America to be inside your homes. It's cool that the United States of Advertising wants to make you into a Cyborg.

Just a bunch of pieces of meat with no eyes or brain matter to these people. Just a bunch of sheep. That's the world we now live in folks.

What you say is mostly true, but still, the question remains, what are we going to do about it?   We can pretty well predict which people will be the first to be displaced, so do we do anything, or just wait for them to rebel and come for the rest of us who still have either jobs or money, and demand that we support them?   You can be sure that that will happen, because that is what has happened throughout history when people are displaced from work.  They rise up and demand that somebody save them.  They aren't going to quietly go and starve. 

It's a completely predictable situation.

It is an interesting topic of study. If you take a large group of people who have families to feed and you take away the source of them doing that, they will do whatever it takes to survive, even if that means violence. If you displace millions of people who think they have nothing to lose, that could be very dangerous.

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EVERYTHING is going to hybrid though in the next few years.

Yep, even our autos are going tranny


.

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So I guess there is some disagreement about how fast this is going to happen, so let me re-phrase the question.  

Putting aside our disagreement as to how fast this is going to happen, and ASSUMING that this is coming fast, and that millions of drivers are going to be unemployed as a result, what do you think we should do for those people?  

Remember, a lot of people predicted that American jobs would be lost as factories moved overseas.  And yet the factory workers were forgotten.   And in this case, the problem won't just be American, it will be a world-wide problem.

So here we have a completely predictable situation.   Have we learned anything?   What do we do about it?

What did the government do for buggy whip manufacturers, or ironsmiths/blacksmiths when they were put out of business by the combustion engine?

Government can't be the solution to all problems, and if this autonomous driver technology sweeps the nation and puts people out of work, what would you propose the government does?  Beef up benefits for the unemployed to carry them?  Who will pay the taxes?  

The reality is that the world evolves, and as it does, so does the workforce.  That has been true from the very beginning in this country.  What will replace those jobs remains to be seen, but the reality is, if technology allows companies to get away from the biggest expense they incur to operate (labor), and they can do it effectively, the market will morph and transition into something that will create a new field of jobs.  The government isn't going to do anything to make that happen despite the hopes of those on the left who think government can fix everything.

While the technology is becoming more prevalent in our society, it's never going to fully replace or even control the majority of the market in our lifetime.  With birth rates what they are in this country and around the world, there won't be a need for governments to step in and "save" the day.

The private sector will determine what happens to those who are displaced.  Not the government.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

You have to love the irony in the fact that the most replaceable people are asking for a higher hourly wage.

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It is an interesting topic of study. If you take a large group of people who have families to feed and you take away the source of them doing that, they will do whatever it takes to survive, even if that means violence. If you displace millions of people who think they have nothing to lose, that could be very dangerous.

Agreed.  They don't realize that they're fighting to price themselves out of jobs.  Neither do those who are on the other side of the spectrum promoting a guaranteed living wage, or ridiculous minimum wage rates.  

My thoughts are that something will happen to disrupt this push to automation, and it could be something as catastrophic as a complete economic collapse similar to the Great Depression.  That will derail a lot of momentum to automate for a lot of companies because the capital costs to do so will be ridiculous, more so than human capital.

Desperate times will call for desperate measures.  You're right that when people have nothing to lose, all bets are off for how they'll respond. Still, government isn't going to solve a problem here.  If anything, it will exacerbate it.  When you look at the Great Depression, it lasted longer than it should have because of government intervention.  Throughout the modern history of this nation, in almost every instance where the benevolent leaders in DC intervene, it has disastrous results.  This would be no different.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

You have to love the irony in the fact that the most replaceable people are asking for a higher hourly wage.

---

It is an interesting topic of study. If you take a large group of people who have families to feed and you take away the source of them doing that, they will do whatever it takes to survive, even if that means violence. If you displace millions of people who think they have nothing to lose, that could be very dangerous.

Agreed.  They don't realize that they're fighting to price themselves out of jobs.  Neither do those who are on the other side of the spectrum promoting a guaranteed living wage, or ridiculous minimum wage rates.  

My thoughts are that something will happen to disrupt this push to automation, and it could be something as catastrophic as a complete economic collapse similar to the Great Depression.  That will derail a lot of momentum to automate for a lot of companies because the capital costs to do so will be ridiculous, more so than human capital.

Desperate times will call for desperate measures.  You're right that when people have nothing to lose, all bets are off for how they'll respond. Still, government isn't going to solve a problem here.  If anything, it will exacerbate it.  When you look at the Great Depression, it lasted longer than it should have because of government intervention.  Throughout the modern history of this nation, in almost every instance where the benevolent leaders in DC intervene, it has disastrous results.  This would be no different.

I have seen guys like Zuckerburg supporting a guaranteed living wage. Of course guys like this are for it, so people can afford a means to use/buy their products even if they aren't gainfully employed. It is just silly.

I think as automation continues to make a push, the government will figure out ways to tax it to a point it is cheaper to use human labor. Like I said before, anybody who thinks the federal government is going sit quietly in the corner while its income tax stream shrinks is crazy. The gov't is gonna get theirs!

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No doubt our humble servants in DC will slap a tax on all things autonomous to force the costs to skyrocket.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The short answer to the unemployment problem has been discussed in think tanks and universities for many years. It involves the culling of roughly 90% of all humans, through starvation, war, pandemic, chemical sterilization, etc.. This plan is actually carved in stone via the mysterious Georgia Guidestones. This sculpture describes "guided reproduction" and a total worldwide population of only 500 million.

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The short answer to the unemployment problem has been discussed in think tanks and universities for many years.  It involves the culling of roughly 90% of all humans, through starvation, war, pandemic, chemical sterilization, etc..  This plan is actually carved in stone via the mysterious Georgia Guidestones.  This sculpture describes "guided reproduction" and a total worldwide population of only 500 million.

Didn't they knock those stones down though up there? I could have sworn I read that awhile back. Regardless that was a pretty creepy monument to begin with.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The short answer to the unemployment problem has been discussed in think tanks and universities for many years.  It involves the culling of roughly 90% of all humans, through starvation, war, pandemic, chemical sterilization, etc..  This plan is actually carved in stone via the mysterious Georgia Guidestones.  This sculpture describes "guided reproduction" and a total worldwide population of only 500 million.

Didn't they knock those stones down though up there? I could have sworn I read that awhile back. Regardless that was a pretty creepy monument to begin with.

No, they're still there.   I stopped and looked at them last year.   They're pretty cool.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

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No doubt our humble servants in DC will slap a tax on all things autonomous to force the costs to skyrocket.

I don't think so.  

You have to look at who is going to advocate for such a tax, and who would be fighting the tax.   The people who will be making the autonomous cars have plenty of money to throw around in Washington and no one to take the opposite side, really.  You'll have major industrialists, car companies, software companies, on one side, and on the other side you'll have a disorganized group of taxi drivers and truck drivers who aren't even aware of what is about to happen to them.  

Then there's also the fact that if we want the United States to be the worldwide leader in the coming age of robotics and automation, the government needs to cut them some tax BREAKS, not the opposite.

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The short answer to the unemployment problem has been discussed in think tanks and universities for many years.  It involves the culling of roughly 90% of all humans, through starvation, war, pandemic, chemical sterilization, etc..  This plan is actually carved in stone via the mysterious Georgia Guidestones.  This sculpture describes "guided reproduction" and a total worldwide population of only 500 million.

I saw a video on the Georgia Guidestones last year and thought it was a huge joke. And then I found out the thing is real. I can't believe that nonsense, but I am very convinced that some people do.

Lucky for me, Robots can't climb steps well or be good companionship. I hear they pay butlers 100k in San Fran. I am gonna get in good with some richie.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

How many years away?

I wouldn't worry about all the job losses though. Every technological advance threatens jobs in some way, it is up to people to learn new trades and educate themselves so as to adjust.

I tell my kids all the time... When you start thinking about a career... MEAT
Medical, Engineering, and Technology
or STEM if that's a better acronym for you (Science, Technology, engineering, and math)
Those are the best fields to get into.

All these twits wanting Art degrees or thinking being a delivery boy is a career path deserve to be phased out by robots.

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https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

How many years away?

I wouldn't worry about all the job losses though. Every technological advance threatens jobs in some way, it is up to people to learn new trades and educate themselves so as to adjust.

That sounds great, but history shows, that doesn't happen.  People don't see the future.   They don't understand that they are going to be losing their jobs.   And when they finally do lose their jobs, they demand the government bail them out.   It happens every time.  

And as soon as the have-nots outnumber the haves, you know what will happen. 

Okay, let me put it in a way that might move some of you.   All these future unemployed people will become Democrats.  Unless we do something about this.

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https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

How many years away?

I wouldn't worry about all the job losses though. Every technological advance threatens jobs in some way, it is up to people to learn new trades and educate themselves so as to adjust.

That sounds great, but history shows, that doesn't happen.  People don't see the future.   They don't understand that they are going to be losing their jobs.   And when they finally do lose their jobs, they demand the government bail them out.   It happens every time.  

And as soon as the have-nots outnumber the haves, you know what will happen. 

Okay, let me put it in a way that might move some of you.   All these future unemployed people will become Democrats.  Unless we do something about this.

That's silly. You don't become a democrat because you're unemployed. You become a democrat when your social environment around you (parents, teachers, etc) convinces you that you deserve something for nothing and that capitalism is bad.

And we should do something, i.e. Get rid of the majority of welfare programs.

I refuse to believe that technological advances are a bad thing and we need to save the jobs for the idiots you refuse to become better people. If bagging groceries is done by robots... Learn to build robots.
We need to teach our youngsters to not aspire to be things they can't reach. We need to teach them to learn to advance with technology and not get left behind by it.
If we can't. That's a failure on us. And if they refuse, they deserve poverty and everything that comes along with it.

I'd rather just kill off all the dumb people incapable of contributing to society. But I'm sure I'm the minority there.

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Another reason why this technology is so far away from being part of our everyday life.

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/08/07/a...signs.html

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That sounds great, but history shows, that doesn't happen.  People don't see the future.   They don't understand that they are going to be losing their jobs.   And when they finally do lose their jobs, they demand the government bail them out.   It happens every time.  

And as soon as the have-nots outnumber the haves, you know what will happen. 

Okay, let me put it in a way that might move some of you.   All these future unemployed people will become Democrats.  Unless we do something about this.

That's silly. You don't become a democrat because you're unemployed. You become a democrat when your social environment around you (parents, teachers, etc) convinces you that you deserve something for nothing and that capitalism is bad.

My opinion is, you become a democrat because you want some income redistribution, you think the playing field is not level, you want the government to help you.   You become a Republican when you want to keep what you have, whether you earned it or inherited it.   It's all about the money.   Politics at its core is just a fight over money.   People decide which party or philosophy is most beneficial to them, and then they go looking for justification for that point of view.   That's why poor people are mostly democrats, and rich people are mostly republicans. 

You say, "You become a democrat when your social environment around you (parents, teachers, etc) convinces you that you deserve something for nothing and that capitalism is bad."   Well, it's pretty easy to convince someone of that when they are poor or  unemployed, and it's pretty hard to convince someone of that when they are rich.   So a person starts with "what's best for me" and then they figure out all the reasons why they are right.   And that's why unemployed people will tend towards income and wealth redistribution and government help.

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