I'm not sure why you think opportunity is less for blacks, there are laws that mandate diversity, even ahead of ability. Asian Americans are hugely discriminated against in college admissions just to keep the diversity levels similar to their proportion in the general population.

If anything, the government discriminates in favor of African Americans in college admissions, hiring laws, and police interaction. One can argue that even more should be done to make up for the centuries of disadvantage before the Civil Rights Act, but not that the opportunity is less at present in the US.

Here is something you don't realize: It is not just "Black people have jobs." What jobs do they have? I have had many black cab drivers. I had black coworkers at entry level jobs. Are black people just as likely as whites to get jobs that require college degrees (and I mean actually being employed, not just getting the degree) or are they mostly making low wages? Show me statistics on racial profiles for Americans who are in poverty because they can't get high-paying jobs while whites in the same areas are affluent. I don't know any numbers, but it is common knowledge that many cities are like this.

No, it's your responsibility to prove biases exist. It isn't common knowledge. 

You're the one saying that, all things being equal, whites will get the job when blacks wont. You have the burden to prove it.

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I'm not sure why you think opportunity is less for blacks, there are laws that mandate diversity, even ahead of ability. Asian Americans are hugely discriminated against in college admissions just to keep the diversity levels similar to their proportion in the general population.

If anything, the government discriminates in favor of African Americans in college admissions, hiring laws, and police interaction. One can argue that even more should be done to make up for the centuries of disadvantage before the Civil Rights Act, but not that the opportunity is less at present in the US.

Here is something you don't realize: It is not just "Black people have jobs." What jobs do they have? I have had many black cab drivers. I had black coworkers at entry level jobs. Are black people just as likely as whites to get jobs that require college degrees (and I mean actually being employed, not just getting the degree) or are they mostly making low wages? Show me statistics on racial profiles for Americans who are in poverty because they can't get high-paying jobs while whites in the same areas are affluent. I don't know any numbers, but it is common knowledge that many cities are like this.

If you want to claim that something is unfair then it's you who has to show the statistics. 

I have no idea the racial percentages of jobs for people with college degrees, but any such statistics would have to include the type of degrees and the quality of work a person performs after getting a job. If 90% of the graduates of group A have engineering degrees while 90% of the graduates of group B have degrees in women's studies, then I'd expect group A to have more and better paying jobs. That's true whether the groups are based on race, gender, height, or number of children.

I sincerely doubt that, in this age of government-mandated diversity, where every company over 50 employees has to file an annual report on the racial makeup of its employees, that there wouldn't be a better job market for qualified minority job applicants. Even without government meddling hiring the most qualified applicant irregardless of race just makes good business sense.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Wow, you guys are talking statistics and logic with JDub?

Talk about wasted time...

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Here is something you don't realize: It is not just "Black people have jobs." What jobs do they have? I have had many black cab drivers. I had black coworkers at entry level jobs. Are black people just as likely as whites to get jobs that require college degrees (and I mean actually being employed, not just getting the degree) or are they mostly making low wages? Show me statistics on racial profiles for Americans who are in poverty because they can't get high-paying jobs while whites in the same areas are affluent. I don't know any numbers, but it is common knowledge that many cities are like this.

If you want to claim that something is unfair then it's you who has to show the statistics. 

I have no idea the racial percentages of jobs for people with college degrees, but any such statistics would have to include the type of degrees and the quality of work a person performs after getting a job. If 90% of the graduates of group A have engineering degrees while 90% of the graduates of group B have degrees in women's studies, then I'd expect group A to have more and better paying jobs. That's true whether the groups are based on race, gender, height, or number of children.

I sincerely doubt that, in this age of government-mandated diversity, where every company over 50 employees has to file an annual report on the racial makeup of its employees, that there wouldn't be a better job market for qualified minority job applicants. Even without government meddling hiring the most qualified applicant irregardless of race just makes good business sense.

Every company over 50 employees has to file an annual report on the racial makeup of its employees?  For real?  I have never heard that.   Can you provide a link to that rule?  Until just a couple of years ago, I ran a company of 70 employees and I never encountered any kind of " government mandated diversity."

To be clear, if there was such a rule, I would be totally against it.  Our company is completely diverse, because we are always desperate to hire the best people regardless of race or gender or sexual orientation.  And that's the way it should be.  If some other company discriminates, that would give me a competitive edge in the competition for great employees.  That's the free market at work.  

But I've never encountered any "government mandated diversity" as you allege.

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If you want to claim that something is unfair then it's you who has to show the statistics. 

I have no idea the racial percentages of jobs for people with college degrees, but any such statistics would have to include the type of degrees and the quality of work a person performs after getting a job. If 90% of the graduates of group A have engineering degrees while 90% of the graduates of group B have degrees in women's studies, then I'd expect group A to have more and better paying jobs. That's true whether the groups are based on race, gender, height, or number of children.

I sincerely doubt that, in this age of government-mandated diversity, where every company over 50 employees has to file an annual report on the racial makeup of its employees, that there wouldn't be a better job market for qualified minority job applicants. Even without government meddling hiring the most qualified applicant irregardless of race just makes good business sense.

Every company over 50 employees has to file an annual report on the racial makeup of its employees?  For real?  I have never heard that.   Can you provide a link to that rule?  Until just a couple of years ago, I ran a company of 70 employees and I never encountered any kind of " government mandated diversity."

To be clear, if there was such a rule, I would be totally against it.  Our company is completely diverse, because we are always desperate to hire the best people regardless of race or gender or sexual orientation.  And that's the way it should be.  If some other company discriminates, that would give me a competitive edge in the competition for great employees.  That's the free market at work.  

But I've never encountered any "government mandated diversity" as you allege.

My mistake, it was 100, not 50. That does not change my argument.

https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/reporting.cfm

And I agree that discrimination is a competitive disadvantage, a point I made my last sentence.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Alot of the responses in here are not being forthright, and its a lot of dodging.

I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Alot of the responses in here are not being forthright, and its a lot of dodging.

I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

Yeah, I'm sure you handled that well.

In my lifetime I've never seen a more divided United States.  People allow false narratives and politics to think that others are better than them.

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Alot of the responses in here are not being forthright, and its a lot of dodging.

I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

Yeah, I'm sure you handled that well.

In my lifetime I've never seen a more divided United States.  It started about 9 years ago.

I handled it by sitting for the anthem which probably ticked the group off even more.

A evil racist black man dividing the country? whowudatotit?

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

---

Here is something you don't realize: It is not just "Black people have jobs." What jobs do they have? I have had many black cab drivers. I had black coworkers at entry level jobs. Are black people just as likely as whites to get jobs that require college degrees (and I mean actually being employed, not just getting the degree) or are they mostly making low wages? Show me statistics on racial profiles for Americans who are in poverty because they can't get high-paying jobs while whites in the same areas are affluent. I don't know any numbers, but it is common knowledge that many cities are like this.

No, it's your responsibility to prove biases exist. It isn't common knowledge. 

You're the one saying that, all things being equal, whites will get the job when blacks wont. You have the burden to prove it.

Give me some time to find something.

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Yeah, I'm sure you handled that well.

In my lifetime I've never seen a more divided United States.  It started about 9 years ago.

I handled it by sitting for the anthem which probably ticked the group off even more.

A evil racist black man dividing the country? whowudatotit?

Of course you did..

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Alot of the responses in here are not being forthright, and its a lot of dodging.

I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

kind of strange that the north fought to free slaves but i find the cities in Florida to be the best when it comes to getting along as true friends across all race and ethnic culture.

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I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

Did they say the football players, which happened to be black, need to know their place? Or did they say the black football players need to know their place?

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I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

Did they say the football players, which happened to be black, need to know their place? Or did they say the black football players need to know their place?

You know it's "all race, all the time" with him. Doesn't matter what was said, it was racist.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

See below Mr owner the below is true. I view political activities just before, during or after the same as during.


Please stop saying football players have first amendment rights to disregard the direction of their private employers while engaged in privately sponsored activities — which is what NFL football games are,” said Collett, a professor at the University of St. Thomas School of Law. “

They have no more constitutional protection for their expressive activities than I do for mine at my private Catholic university.

Any ‘rights’ they have are based on their contracts and employment law.”

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

A lot of the responses in here are not being forthright, and its a lot of dodging.

I was at the game Sunday and had a conversation with a group of Jets fans who were booing the Jags kneeling. One of the guys said it outright that black players need to know their place.

Kind of strange that the north fought to free slaves but I find the cities in Florida to be the best when it comes to getting along as true friends across all race and ethnic culture.

I don't get it. You are talking about what happened in the 1860s. There is no irony in the 21st century.

Florida is a state many immigrants flock to. It also has many "snowbirds" (people who lived in the north and moved here or rent vacation homes for warmer weather).

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Statistics indicates police violence is disproportional against blacks.  There are sources and studies that indicate that black people are 3 times more likely to be subjected to violence, especially fatal violence from police than white people.  You're statement seems to indicate that black people are out to get police and that's simply not what this thing is about.

By LAW we do have equal access to opportunity but practice and theory do not always go hand in hand.  Blaming the victims by telling them they're just not working hard enough is a symptom of the issue. It's subtle. Hell, racism is subtle.

Statistics show whites are twice as likely to be killed by cops as either blacks or hispanics in the US. 

The actual data:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...shootings/

And the analysis:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/a...ng-result/

I'm not sure why you think opportunity is less for blacks, there are laws that mandate diversity, even ahead of ability. Asian Americans are hugely discriminated against in college admissions just to keep the diversity levels similar to their proportion in the general population.

If anything, the government discriminates in favor of African Americans in college admissions, hiring laws, and police interaction. One can argue that even more should be done to make up for the centuries of disadvantage before the Civil Rights Act, but not that the opportunity is less at present in the US.

The figures you posted are correct but your conclusions are wrong.  The number of people shot by police compared to the people of any race shot by police disregards the proportion of each race in the population at large. In fact the chances of anyone being a victim of police violence is relatively small but considering the sample size, minorities are represented in a higher proportion.  Here's an analysis explaining this misconception.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...a2e5adf3e0

The lack of opportunity for minorities is represented by the lower proportion achieving higher degrees, a higher unemployment rate in that community, a lower average net worth proportionately, a higher proportion living in poverty, etc. The Civil Rights Act was an attempt to eliminate Jim Crow in practice and level the playing field and has in some instances but minorities still face discrimination and a lack of progress in these areas.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Statistics show whites are twice as likely to be killed by cops as either blacks or hispanics in the US. 

The actual data:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...shootings/

And the analysis:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/a...ng-result/

I'm not sure why you think opportunity is less for blacks, there are laws that mandate diversity, even ahead of ability. Asian Americans are hugely discriminated against in college admissions just to keep the diversity levels similar to their proportion in the general population.

If anything, the government discriminates in favor of African Americans in college admissions, hiring laws, and police interaction. One can argue that even more should be done to make up for the centuries of disadvantage before the Civil Rights Act, but not that the opportunity is less at present in the US.

The figures you posted are correct but your conclusions are wrong.  They number of people shot by police compared to the people of any race shot by police disregards the proportion of each race in the population at large. In fact the chances of anyone being a victim of police violence is relatively small but considering the sample size, minorities are represented in a higher proportion.  Here's an analysis explaining this misconception.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...a2e5adf3e0

The lack of opportunity for minorities are represented by the lower proportion achieving higher degrees, a higher unemployment rate in that community, a lower average net worth proportionately, a higher proportion living in poverty, etc. The Civil Rights Act was an attempt to eliminate Jim Crow in practice and level the playing field and has in some instances but minorities still face discrimination and a lack of progress in these areas.

Did you read my links?

You can't just compare things to the general population. The analysis in my second link compared the racial distribution of people shot by police to the number of felony arrests. If you just compare numbers to the general population then you'd have to say that men are grossly discriminated against compared to women because almost every person shot by the police is male.

Likewise, counting graduates or jobs vs. the general population is meaningless. That could be an indication that the opportunity is less, but it could equally well be a result of many other factors. You'd have to show a predominance of cases where people with equal abilities do not get equal treatment.  If you have such a link I'll be glad to read it (but I can't read the WaPo, it blocks me). 

As far as colleges, the federal government (you know, the one represented by the flag) has mandated diversity. Many states even have a de facto quota system that favors black applicants, and the Supreme court has allowed it. Businesses have a federal incentive to hire minorities too. Discriminating against the best available employee is a losing business practice.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Did you read my links?

You can't just compare things to the general population. The analysis in my second link compared the racial distribution of people shot by police to the number of felony arrests. If you just compare numbers to the general population then you'd have to say that men are grossly discriminated against compared to women because almost every person shot by the police is male.

Likewise, counting graduates or jobs vs. the general population is meaningless. That could be an indication that the opportunity is less, but it could equally well be a result of many other factors. You'd have to show a predominance of cases where people with equal abilities do not get equal treatment.  If you have such a link I'll be glad to read it (but I can't read the WaPo, it blocks me). 

As far as colleges, the federal government (you know, the one represented by the flag) has mandated diversity. Many states even have a de facto quota system that favors black applicants, and the Supreme court has allowed it. Businesses have a federal incentive to hire minorities too. Discriminating against the best available employee is a losing business practice.

Your point about many more men than women being shot by police is way off base. Biologically, male brains have a larger area for anger than female brains (I do not know what the medical community calls it) and the result is often being more aggressive. There is no sexual discrimination. It is simply a fact of life that men have a much higher risk of being felons than women for reasons medical experts can back up. I would be interested in statistics showing how many women are charged with violent crimes rather than just being shot for no good reason.

Why don't black people with the same abilities get as much education as whites? That is the question. If education was equal, so would be employment opportunities. It is a catch-22 because you need money to pay for college and need college to get a living wage job. For whatever reason, this is especially a problem for racial minorities despite the diversity laws. I wish I had the answers. Apparently many NFL players, mostly blacks, know the discrimination in this area is real.

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