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Mattis breaks with Trump on Iran

#21

(06-04-2020, 12:46 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 09:10 AM)JackCity Wrote: Have you jumped ship from Mattis now too? You have quite a lot of posts praising him the last few years, why the change of heart

I don't mind Mattis. He is entitled to his opinion even if the timing is peculiar.

Trump using force on peaceful protestors to get a photo for his election campaign seems like just the right time?
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#22

(06-04-2020, 05:37 PM)lastonealive Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 12:46 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: I don't mind Mattis. He is entitled to his opinion even if the timing is peculiar.

Trump using force on peaceful protestors to get a photo for his election campaign seems like just the right time?

When did he use force on peaceful protesters?


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#23

(06-04-2020, 06:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 05:37 PM)lastonealive Wrote: Trump using force on peaceful protestors to get a photo for his election campaign seems like just the right time?

When did he use force on peaceful protesters?

But XiNN said so!!!!
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#24

(06-04-2020, 05:37 PM)lastonealive Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 12:46 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: I don't mind Mattis. He is entitled to his opinion even if the timing is peculiar.

Trump using force on peaceful protestors to get a photo for his election campaign seems like just the right time?

With all due respect, what in the [BLEEP] are you talking about? You literally live in an alternate reality where you dream up a narrative.
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#25

(06-04-2020, 05:14 PM)JagJohn Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 04:39 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: I agree.

Mattis is respectable, but I’m not sure how much a president can or should be personally held accountable with regards to being a uniter-in-chief or divider-in-chief.

Changes in cultural values over time is what will bring this about, along with legislation aimed at protecting the rights and opportunities for ALL people.

Tackling the tough problems through effective leadership, maintaining dignity & integrity of office, and improving country reputation and reliability in the international community is all the President should be concerned with.

How would you grade Trump on these things?


To be fair, I must preface what I say by admitting that I really do not like Trump at all.

As President, I think he has done some good and some bad.

He has shown a willingness to deal with several major issues that many Americans have cared about for years, but have been saddled with administrations (Democratic and Republican) that haven't been able to deal with.  Immigration control is one.  Unfair trade practices is another.  People will have different opinions on how useful border walls and tariffs are, but at least he tried to do something about these issues instead of making the token campaign promise or two and then ignoring the issue once in office.  I'd give him a solid "B" grade in this area.

As far as representing the office of President, he leaves a lot to be desired.  I think he's seriously lacking in the areas of intellect and poise, and it has hampered his effectiveness.  Supporters will call his shortcomings in the latter to be a sort of rustic charm, using cowboy diplomacy to buck the establishment of political correctness and calling it like he sees it.  Yet, he's been holding a hammer since his inauguration, and every problem looks like a nail to him.  Concerning staff turnovers, he's been consistent in publicly belittling them after they have gone (ie, while working for him "This person is smart and effective" and then "I never liked them and they are very unintelligent" after they have left) which calls into question Trump's own intelligence.  I don't have an issue with him valuing loyalty over competence, but a lot of his dismissals sure seem retaliatory in nature.  Then there's the letter to Ergodan and his proclaimed love for Kim Jong Un.  I think he has earned a "D" grade in this area.

As far as international politics are concerned he has stepped on some toes, and I do believe that the world views America as less of a team player now.  Getting us out of Syria and other places we had no business being in helps, though.  This impending dispute with China may get ugly, but so far his other actions have not caused any boycotts of American goods or services that I know of.  I guess I would give him a "C" here.

Overall "C" I guess, though I wouldn't want to be the President dealing with the national debt issue a few administrations from now.
"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan
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#26

(06-04-2020, 11:27 PM)KodiakJag Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 05:14 PM)JagJohn Wrote: How would you grade Trump on these things?


To be fair, I must preface what I say by admitting that I really do not like Trump at all.

As President, I think he has done some good and some bad.

He has shown a willingness to deal with several major issues that many Americans have cared about for years, but have been saddled with administrations (Democratic and Republican) that haven't been able to deal with.  Immigration control is one.  Unfair trade practices is another.  People will have different opinions on how useful border walls and tariffs are, but at least he tried to do something about these issues instead of making the token campaign promise or two and then ignoring the issue once in office.  I'd give him a solid "B" grade in this area.

As far as representing the office of President, he leaves a lot to be desired.  I think he's seriously lacking in the areas of intellect and poise, and it has hampered his effectiveness.  Supporters will call his shortcomings in the latter to be a sort of rustic charm, using cowboy diplomacy to buck the establishment of political correctness and calling it like he sees it.  Yet, he's been holding a hammer since his inauguration, and every problem looks like a nail to him.  Concerning staff turnovers, he's been consistent in publicly belittling them after they have gone (ie, while working for him "This person is smart and effective" and then "I never liked them and they are very unintelligent" after they have left) which calls into question Trump's own intelligence.  I don't have an issue with him valuing loyalty over competence, but a lot of his dismissals sure seem retaliatory in nature.  Then there's the letter to Ergodan and his proclaimed love for Kim Jong Un.  I think he has earned a "D" grade in this area.

As far as international politics are concerned he has stepped on some toes, and I do believe that the world views America as less of a team player now.  Getting us out of Syria and other places we had no business being in helps, though.  This impending dispute with China may get ugly, but so far his other actions have not caused any boycotts of American goods or services that I know of.  I guess I would give him a "C" here.

Overall "C" I guess, though I wouldn't want to be the President dealing with the national debt issue a few administrations from now.

I agree with much of your sentiments. He is extremely ill-mannered and his style rankles the part of me that wants polite interactions. I think you can be both firm and polite without the need to be downright nasty (though there are times for nastiness too). He's been in a knife fight since he won the nomination and his style is often as detrimental as it's been positive. I am for his actions against China, they are the biggest problem that no one before him has had the stones to deal with, but I don't think he will ever serve to unite us, the left just hates him too much and he feels the same about them. Divisive politics isn't new, but his position as a Party outsider makes division even within his own party worse. I do wish he were better at the manners part, but his base traded manners for a willingness to fight back.

I give him a "B" for Better than Hillary.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#27

(06-05-2020, 08:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 11:27 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: To be fair, I must preface what I say by admitting that I really do not like Trump at all.

As President, I think he has done some good and some bad.

He has shown a willingness to deal with several major issues that many Americans have cared about for years, but have been saddled with administrations (Democratic and Republican) that haven't been able to deal with.  Immigration control is one.  Unfair trade practices is another.  People will have different opinions on how useful border walls and tariffs are, but at least he tried to do something about these issues instead of making the token campaign promise or two and then ignoring the issue once in office.  I'd give him a solid "B" grade in this area.

As far as representing the office of President, he leaves a lot to be desired.  I think he's seriously lacking in the areas of intellect and poise, and it has hampered his effectiveness.  Supporters will call his shortcomings in the latter to be a sort of rustic charm, using cowboy diplomacy to buck the establishment of political correctness and calling it like he sees it.  Yet, he's been holding a hammer since his inauguration, and every problem looks like a nail to him.  Concerning staff turnovers, he's been consistent in publicly belittling them after they have gone (ie, while working for him "This person is smart and effective" and then "I never liked them and they are very unintelligent" after they have left) which calls into question Trump's own intelligence.  I don't have an issue with him valuing loyalty over competence, but a lot of his dismissals sure seem retaliatory in nature.  Then there's the letter to Ergodan and his proclaimed love for Kim Jong Un.  I think he has earned a "D" grade in this area.

As far as international politics are concerned he has stepped on some toes, and I do believe that the world views America as less of a team player now.  Getting us out of Syria and other places we had no business being in helps, though.  This impending dispute with China may get ugly, but so far his other actions have not caused any boycotts of American goods or services that I know of.  I guess I would give him a "C" here.

Overall "C" I guess, though I wouldn't want to be the President dealing with the national debt issue a few administrations from now.

I agree with much of your sentiments. He is extremely ill-mannered and his style rankles the part of me that wants polite interactions. I think you can be both firm and polite without the need to be downright nasty (though there are times for nastiness too). He's been in a knife fight since he won the nomination and his style is often as detrimental as it's been positive. I am for his actions against China, they are the biggest problem that no one before him has had the stones to deal with, but I don't think he will ever serve to unite us, the left just hates him too much and he feels the same about them. Divisive politics isn't new, but his position as a Party outsider makes division even within his own party worse. I do wish he were better at the manners part, but his base traded manners for a willingness to fight back.

I give him a "B" for Better than Hillary.


My husband and I were talking about this very subject this morning. Trump is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He puts on no airs. If you can do something for him you're the best ever, if not then there is absolutely no love lost. He's always been this way. His behavior is nothing new to us older folks who have known who he is since at least the 80s. 

Tactless and uncouth. No manners. Inciteful. Divisive. But damn if he doesn't get stuff done because he doesn't care if he rolls over people. It's both admirable and cringeworthy. I do believe on some level he really cares about what's important to him. Once in awhile I see it, even if ever so briefly. I just wish someone would take away his social media accounts.
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#28

(06-05-2020, 04:11 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote:
(06-05-2020, 08:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: I agree with much of your sentiments. He is extremely ill-mannered and his style rankles the part of me that wants polite interactions. I think you can be both firm and polite without the need to be downright nasty (though there are times for nastiness too). He's been in a knife fight since he won the nomination and his style is often as detrimental as it's been positive. I am for his actions against China, they are the biggest problem that no one before him has had the stones to deal with, but I don't think he will ever serve to unite us, the left just hates him too much and he feels the same about them. Divisive politics isn't new, but his position as a Party outsider makes division even within his own party worse. I do wish he were better at the manners part, but his base traded manners for a willingness to fight back.

I give him a "B" for Better than Hillary.


My husband and I were talking about this very subject this morning. Trump is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He puts on no airs. If you can do something for him you're the best ever, if not then there is absolutely no love lost. He's always been this way. His behavior is nothing new to us older folks who have known who he is since at least the 80s. 

Tactless and uncouth. No manners. Inciteful. Divisive. But damn if he doesn't get stuff done because he doesn't care if he rolls over people. It's both admirable and cringeworthy. I do believe on some level he really cares about what's important to him. Once in awhile I see it, even if ever so briefly. I just wish someone would take away his social media accounts.

He can achieve because he's not beholden to the political machine. He owes dues to no one, thus he's able to say and do as he pleases. Which is not always a good thing.
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#29

(06-05-2020, 04:11 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote:
(06-05-2020, 08:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: I agree with much of your sentiments. He is extremely ill-mannered and his style rankles the part of me that wants polite interactions. I think you can be both firm and polite without the need to be downright nasty (though there are times for nastiness too). He's been in a knife fight since he won the nomination and his style is often as detrimental as it's been positive. I am for his actions against China, they are the biggest problem that no one before him has had the stones to deal with, but I don't think he will ever serve to unite us, the left just hates him too much and he feels the same about them. Divisive politics isn't new, but his position as a Party outsider makes division even within his own party worse. I do wish he were better at the manners part, but his base traded manners for a willingness to fight back.

I give him a "B" for Better than Hillary.


My husband and I were talking about this very subject this morning. Trump is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He puts on no airs. If you can do something for him you're the best ever, if not then there is absolutely no love lost. He's always been this way. His behavior is nothing new to us older folks who have known who he is since at least the 80s. 

Tactless and uncouth. No manners. Inciteful. Divisive. But damn if he doesn't get stuff done because he doesn't care if he rolls over people. It's both admirable and cringeworthy. I do believe on some level he really cares about what's important to him. Once in awhile I see it, even if ever so briefly. I just wish someone would take away his social media accounts.

That's more-or-less what I think regarding President Trump.  In the 2016 election he didn't have my vote in the primary, but he did have my vote in the general election mainly because he wasn't Hillary.

Regarding the part in bold.  I do think he genuinely cares about people and the country.

I do agree that sometimes I think that he should just stay off of social media, but then again that's really his only way of communicating his message to the people.  The MSM certainly isn't going to do it fairly.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#30

(06-05-2020, 05:36 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:
(06-05-2020, 04:11 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: My husband and I were talking about this very subject this morning. Trump is a WYSIWYG kind of person. He puts on no airs. If you can do something for him you're the best ever, if not then there is absolutely no love lost. He's always been this way. His behavior is nothing new to us older folks who have known who he is since at least the 80s. 

Tactless and uncouth. No manners. Inciteful. Divisive. But damn if he doesn't get stuff done because he doesn't care if he rolls over people. It's both admirable and cringeworthy. I do believe on some level he really cares about what's important to him. Once in awhile I see it, even if ever so briefly. I just wish someone would take away his social media accounts.

That's more-or-less what I think regarding President Trump.  In the 2016 election he didn't have my vote in the primary, but he did have my vote in the general election mainly because he wasn't Hillary.

Regarding the part in bold.  I do think he genuinely cares about people and the country.

I do agree that sometimes I think that he should just stay off of social media, but then again that's really his only way of communicating his message to the people.  The MSM certainly isn't going to do it fairly.

You're certainly right about that. I just wish he could be a bit less....grenade in the foxhole. It's not always what he says but how he says it. No, that's not right. It's definitely both.
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#31
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2020, 02:02 PM by Sammy.)

(06-05-2020, 05:36 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: That's more-or-less what I think regarding President Trump.  In the 2016 election he didn't have my vote in the primary, but he did have my vote in the general election mainly because he wasn't Hillary.

Regarding the part in bold.  I do think he genuinely cares about people and the country.

I do agree that sometimes I think that he should just stay off of social media, but then again that's really his only way of communicating his message to the people.  The MSM certainly isn't going to do it fairly.

Pretty much sums me up as well. I don't vote by party, I vote by person. I'm 50/50 on the upcoming presidential vote. Just really wish Trump wasn't so divisive at times. He doesn't just lip service so many foreign, and domestic issues, and he doesn't take the easy way out. He is a total prick, though. If he had been more of a statesman, while still sticking to the policies he has ...  it sure wouldn't have hurt him. That's not who he is though.

But Biden? He comes off as a puppet. I hope I am wrong as I think he will win the election.

Edit: I have had enough. Attack Colin Powell? One of my favorite people? Sheesh I really hate to vote for Biden, but straw gets heavy in mass.
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#32

(06-06-2020, 03:30 PM)Sammy Wrote: Pretty much sums me up as well. I don't vote by party, I vote by person. I'm 50/50 on the upcoming presidential vote. Just really wish Trump wasn't so divisive at times. He doesn't just lip service so many foreign, and domestic issues, and he doesn't take the easy way out. He is a total prick, though. If he had been more of a statesman, while still sticking to the policies he has ...  it sure wouldn't have hurt him. That's not who he is though.

But Biden? He comes off as a puppet. I hope I am wrong as I think he will win the election.

Edit: I have had enough. Attack Colin Powell? One of my favorite people? Sheesh I really hate to vote for Biden, but straw gets heavy in mass.

Pretty much agree with all of the above.
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#33

(06-06-2020, 03:30 PM)Sammy Wrote:
(06-05-2020, 05:36 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: That's more-or-less what I think regarding President Trump.  In the 2016 election he didn't have my vote in the primary, but he did have my vote in the general election mainly because he wasn't Hillary.

Regarding the part in bold.  I do think he genuinely cares about people and the country.

I do agree that sometimes I think that he should just stay off of social media, but then again that's really his only way of communicating his message to the people.  The MSM certainly isn't going to do it fairly.

Pretty much sums me up as well. I don't vote by party, I vote by person. I'm 50/50 on the upcoming presidential vote. Just really wish Trump wasn't so divisive at times. He doesn't just lip service so many foreign, and domestic issues, and he doesn't take the easy way out. He is a total prick, though. If he had been more of a statesman, while still sticking to the policies he has ...  it sure wouldn't have hurt him. That's not who he is though.

But Biden? He comes off as a puppet. I hope I am wrong as I think he will win the election.

Edit: I have had enough. Attack Colin Powell? One of my favorite people? Sheesh I really hate to vote for Biden, but straw gets heavy in mass.

This whole thing is a [BLEEP] show.
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#34

Ah yes, Colin Powell. The "Republican" who wouldn't vote for such ruggedly staunch Conservatives like...Romney or McCain. Why the guy wont just admit to his Lefty Fetish I don't understand.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#35
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2020, 09:35 PM by Lucky2Last.)

Powell has my respect. That said, the establishment class hates Trump, so it doesn't surprise me that he spoke out against Trump. I did find the rhetoric he used a bit surprising. I don't think he was completely fair in his criticisms. I also don't see why anyone would get inflamed at Trump punching back.
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